NFL 06/07 Talk

[Mr. X]

Inconsistent? He had a bad game, everyone has those. The rest of the games he has been impressive.

He had a bad game against Carolina in last years playoffs, during the preseason, and now this game. He had 4 good games and had a horrendous game where he forced passes and didn't protect the ball.

Edited October 19, 2006 by Joe Nobody

[Trey]

Scoring 21 points against Carolina is not considered a bad game, at least in my opinion. I keep repeating myself, but for some reason it keeps getting ignored. You're right when you say that he needs to learn, but he still hasn't played in a whole lot of NFL games. He has shown this season that when he keeps his cool and controls his gun-slinger mentality, he can be a very good quarterback.

As a Bears fan, I would much rather have someone who is willing to take a few chances then a game manager like we had last year. Last game is one of those learning experiences that hopefully will help reign in Grossman.

[Kyle_]

Inconsistent? He had a bad game, everyone has those. The rest of the games he has been impressive.

He had a bad game against Carolina in last years playoffs, during the preseason, and now this game. He had 4 good games and had a horrendous game where he forced passes and didn't protect the ball.

[ACCBiggz]

Steelers - Ben Roethlisberger - Game Manager

Patriots - Tom Brady - Game Manager

Patriots - Tom Brady - Game Manager

Buccaneers - Brad Johnson - Game Manager

Patriots - Tom Brady - Game Manager

Ravens - Dilfer - Game Manager

Your past six Superbowl Champions, and the majority of them are game managers. Now I'm not saying that taking a few chances are bad, but Grossman continuously makes bad decisions. And that Playoff game you mention, Grossman was an effiencent 17-41

[Evil Chase K]

Ben Roethlisberger is NOT a game manager. Tom Brady is NOT a game manager.

The Game Manager

By CK Stiller

Game manager is a term all Steelers fans have heard too much. Most, I believe, loath it, mainly because it’s the label most applied to QB Ben Roethlisberger. It isn’t hard to see where the reputation comes from. I can’t remember the last article I read that discussed Roethlisberger that didn’t try and make several points:

-Roethlisberger can’t carry a team

-Roethlisberger is at his best when they ask him to do the least amount as possible

-The Steelers can only play with a lead

-The Steelers don’t have to ask Roethlisberger to do much

-Roethlisberger is a game manager

Where exactly do these notions come from? One single stat - his attempts. Without a doubt, they are extremely low. When a media pinhead takes a look at the stat sheet at the end of a game, and sees Roethlisberger threw, let’s say, 19 times, game manager is the notion that first pops into his head. Then, there is the now overused stat that the Steelers tend to lose when Roethlisberger throws the ball 30+ times, and that the Steelers have won just a single game under Roethlisberger where they haven’t had at least 100 yards on the ground (the AFCC game against Denver, no less).

Then, what sense does any of that make? Let’s take a look at how many passes QB’s in the league average per game, based off last season:

1. Peyton Manning - 28

2. Carson Palmer - 32

3. Ben Roethlisberger - 22

4. Matt Hasselbeck - 28

5. Marc Bulger - 35

6. Tom Brady - 33

7. Jake Plummer - 29

8. Trent Green - 32

9. Byron Leftwich - 30

10. Drew Brees - 31

11. Brad Johnson - 29

I stopped at Brad Johnson because he is the QB most referred to as a game manager. He is the prototype at this point in his career. Of course, the next QB is a guy by the name of Trent Dilfer. Interestingly enough, in his 8 starts in the 2001 season, he averaged 28 attempts per game.

There is very little variation among the QB’s in the league, and how many attempts they have per game. That is, besides with Roethlisberger. He is alone with his meager 22, only 1 above his 21 as a rookie.

It has become established that, contrary to popular belief, teams that have a 300 yard passer do not win the majority of the games they play. This is easy to explain. A QB playing from behind is more likely to throw, and more likely to have the yardage to show for it. Few in the media deny this notion. By the same token, then, doesn’t it make sense that a winning QB is likely to have fewer attempts?

Well, looking above, yes. Jake Plummer and Peyton Manning were the QB’s of the AFC’s top two seeds, and averaged less throws per game. In the NFC, the top two seeds were the Seahawks and Bears. Matt Hasselbeck, like those other two, was below many other QB’s. Roethlisberger was 9-3 last season, and 27-4 overall as a starting NFL QB. Of course, this isn’t a thorough breakdown of how winning games effects overall attempts per game. That would require a far more extensive amount of research. The logic is hard to miss, though.

Roethlisberger has not played behind in too many of his games. At best, the Steelers have pretty much always been in a position to keep a balanced offensive attack, and in a large number of games, been in a position to where they didn’t need to throw at all late in games. There is no better example then last weeks game against Kansas City.

Up 31-0 at half, Roethlisberger had thrown 15 times. He would throw only 4 more times in the second half. Truth be told, I was surprised he even kept throwing as long as he did. Up 21 points, I figured Cowher would have taken the air out of the ball sooner. At half, I remember telling someone I was watching the game with that, following this, the only thing you would hear all week is how the Steelers were playing “Steelers football.” That is, they were at their best when they simply asked Roethlisberger to “manage” the game. They would simply look at his overall attempts, and use it to justify their belief.

When a QB has an unprecedented record as an NFL starter, it’s not surprising he also has an unprecedented number of passes per game. It also isn’t surprising that when Roethlisberger didn’t play, his back-ups Charlie Batch and Tommy Maddox threw the ball more times per game. The Steelers generally struggled in those four games. The QB’s stepping in were also far less efficient.

Which raises my next point. An efficient QB is a QB who doesn’t have to throw much. Besides the fact that this means he’s scoring more points when he throws than others, as I have shown Roethlisberger has in the past, but also that he’s gaining more yardage per throw, and moving the chains more.

While averaging just 22 attempts per game, Roethlisberger had an unrivaled 8.9 YPA. The second highest QB in this regard was Peyton Manning, with a 8.27 YPA. Not surprisingly, YPA, above all other passing stats, has the highest correlation to winning.

When a QB throws on first down, and gains 8 yards, it decreases the chance he throws on second or third down. If it’s an incompletion, it makes sense that he is more likely to throw again. Second and long, after all, is generally a passing down. And, of course, if it’s third down, the QB is even more likely to throw.

I would call this the “Drew Bledsoe Effect.” Essentially, an inefficient QB like Bledsoe is going to throw more. He doesn’t have an especially good completion rate, and he does not have a very high YPA. Just go back to his 691 attempt season in 94, where he had just a 6.6 YPA. The following season, his Super Bowl season with the Patriots, he threw 636 times for an even worse 5.5 YPA. He did this all with Bill Parcells of all coaches. A man who prefers to play ball control offense, and keep his stingy defense well-rested.

Roethlisberger could throw an extra 10 or so times a game against the likes of the Texans, or Chiefs. He could get 30 or so throws per game, and suddenly he would be viewed in the same light as Carson “Choker” Palmer. He would be elite, while still being the same QB in terms of ability.

I can’t say for sure when Roethlisberger will get his due respect, but I do know it will happen. Roethlisberger is simply a winner. He’ll keep getting it done. I have a feeling that after a few more trips to the playoffs, he’ll have proven what most Steelers fans already know.

Edited October 19, 2006 by Evil Chase K

[ACCBiggz]

Yes they are. Watch Brady sometime, he manages the game.

[Kyle_]

I would say Brady is. Not Big Ben though. His performance in the Super Bowl wasn't that great, and a rushing TD where even he said afterwards "I don't think I got in."

[Trey]

I'll admit that "game manager" was a wrong choice of words. I don't really want Grossman to be just a game manager, but I guess I would prefer him to play more like Big Ben rather then Kyle Orton last year. I want the deep ball thrown at least 5 or 6 times a game and I want Grossman to get more then 2 throws a drive. If it's 2nd and 8, I want to throw, not run the ball. Grossman, when he's playing under control, is exactly what I like to see.

[Hajjhowe]

The Bears are overrated.

That is all.

[EddieRuckus]

Screw the Seahawks. I'm seriously considering rooting for another team because of how letting Hutchinson go came back to bite Seattle in the ass this year. They can't rush great at all this year, and now with both Alexander, Engram, AND Hasselbeck out, I'm not sure how the hell they're going to do this year. Granted after they face Kansas City next week their schedule gets easier save for the St. Louis game, but as of right now I'm pretty damn pissed with the luck the Hawks have been getting.

[IAceI]

Washington are, perhaps, the worst team in the NFC. It's fucking awful.

Edited October 22, 2006 by IAceI

[jase12881]

Washington are, perhaps, the worst team in the NFC. It's fucking awful.

[IAceI]

Washington are, perhaps, the worst team in the NFC. It's fucking awful.

You do know that both Arizona and Detroit are in the NFC right?

Arizona is apparently going to lose to Oakland.

[alldaws1]

Oh my lord, the Raiders won a game. Impressively, too by the sounds of it. And the Redskins and Eagles lost - time for the Cowboys to take control of the East

[NobBe Nobbs]

What? Oh, that sucks, I wanted them to go 0-16

[Evil Chase K]

Fucking Steelers. Giving away a perfectly winable game with turnovers. 21 points off turnovers, gotta hand it to the Falcons for capitalizing.

And for fucksake can we get someone on the defense who can actually cover a tight end?!?!?

[Kyle_]

Fucking Steelers. Giving away a perfectly winable game with turnovers. 21 points off turnovers, gotta hand it to the Falcons for capitalizing.

And for fucksake can we get someone on the defense who can actually cover a tight end?!?!?

[mikevandam]

Fab game between Falcons and Steelers. I know the tilde is kinda passe. But "Vicks four TD passes"~. And the gamewinner made even happier i got bored to sleep with Vikings vs Seahawks afterwards

[LL!]

I'd like to proclaim my love for Michael Vick and Alge Crumpler for being amazing and giving me many many many fantasy points this weekend.

[Mofoticon]

The Browns are, without a doubt, cursed. First Bentley tears his patella on the 1st play of practice in TC, pretty much ruining the teams confidence for the year, then Baxter tears the patella in each of his knees, which is supposed to be a rare injury...he will probably have to retire now, and the thing is, he was completely healthy when he played for the Ravens, now, he can't stay healthy for 1 game. All this and im not even mentioning all the stuff that's happened the past few years to the Browns with injuries.