Pick me teams from around the country!

[9 to 5]

Barry Ferguson, lol.

[Liam]

Go for Hearts for Scotland. Nice to see them beat off Rangers, good to see if they can stay in the top 2 next season.

Spoiler: they won't.

I agree with Hearts for Scotland too. See if they can break the monopoly.

...you want them to break themselves? :blink:

Firstly, wouldn't be surprised to see Hearts finish ahead of Rangers, since Rangers are....well, shit.

And secondly, Hearts aren't exactly part of the two team monopoly of the SPL that has existed over the past years.

Rangers are tentative favourites to win the league this year due to the big shake-up at Rangers, Celtic's poor squad and pre-season form, and the fact Hearts have barely done anything during the summer of note, when they'll need a big improvement. They were never shit, they just had shitty management most of the time. The only reason they got so far in Europe was because Barry Ferguson, etc would rally the team up.

And Rangers and Celtic earned their monopoly. They grew it up from nothing with some of the best players in Scottish football history. Hearts are the monopoly here, much like Chelsea are in England. We're just lucky the Lithuanians in charge are complete spastics and keep messing things up.

Rangers were diabolical last season, and until I see a big change from that, I don't see them winning it at all. It isn't as if they have signed anyone amazing, even if there has been a change around. Celtic at least have got in Miller and Jarosik, who should both do pretty good in the SPL. Sure, they've lost Hartson but they won the SPL with practically the same squad last season, so I can't see how it is a "poor squad". As for pre-season form, Celtic weren't too bad against Everton the other day, so not overly fussed I guess.

Also, as for talking tentative favourites and what not, with who? The bookies have Celtic odds on to win it again.

And you don't actually know what the term monopoly means, do you? Technically, what Celtic and Rangers had is an oligopoly, where two or more teams/companies (in economic terms) have the majority share of success/the market. Chelsea don't have a monopoly yet because realistically they've only won 2 Premiership titles, and Man U and Arsenal have won more in the past decade than that....Hearts don't have a monopoly cos they haven't won the SPL for god knows how long. So yeah, having a lot of money isn't the same as a monopoly.

Edited July 24, 2006 by liamwannabe

[9 to 5]

Rangers were diabolical last season, and until I see a big change from that, I don't see them winning it at all. It isn't as if they have signed anyone amazing, even if there has been a change around. Celtic at least have got in Miller and Jarosik, who should both do pretty good in the SPL. Sure, they've lost Hartson but they won the SPL with practically the same squad last season, so I can't see how it is a "poor squad". As for pre-season form, Celtic weren't too bad against Everton the other day, so not overly fussed I guess.

The only way I can dis-agree with you there with you Liam is that Rangers did do well in Europe, getting to the last 16 despite their lack of quality was no mean feat. Sure they hardly raped the group or anything, but even alot better teams than them like Man Utd failed to even make the UEFA cup. Overall? Yeah Celtic are far better in my book right now over a league format season. Unless Le Guin turns out to be Jesus.

Also, as for talking tentative favourites and what not, with who? The bookies have Celtic odds on to win it again.

Celtic 4/5

Rangers 11/10

Hearts 9/1

That's the title odds according to Ladbrokes. True only one source but it's what I consider as the site I trust most. Besides the odds aren't close enough to suggest any other sites, aside maybe an odd one, would put Rangers ahead of Cetlic.

And you don't actually know what the term monopoly means, do you? Technically, what Celtic and Rangers had is an oligopoly, where two or more teams/companies (in economic terms) have the majority share of success/the market. Chelsea don't have a monopoly yet because realistically they've only won 2 Premiership titles, and Man U and Arsenal have won more in the past decade than that....Hearts don't have a monopoly cos they haven't won the SPL for god knows how long. So yeah, having a lot of money isn't the same as a monopoly.

Can't disagree with the monopoly part, since it's all fact. Until you get a team winning the league 9 out of 10 times or something is it a monopoly. Where you might be getting confused is that Hearts and Chelsea spend more on transfers in each league. That might be seen as a monopoly of the transfer market, but then teams such as Arsenal haven't spent THAT much compared to other teams at the same level and yet have been successful. Just because you have money to spunk away doesn't mean you win anything. Look at Newcastle.

And take a basic economics test. >_>

[fineintent]

I'd back Rangers simply for Le Guen. He turned Lyon into a major European force. Infact, they're so good even Houllier hasn't been able to fuck them up.

[Liam]

Yeah, but a manager can only do so much in the short term. Give it till next season, when he has had a chance to properly implement his way on the club, than I think they'll do better. Celtic have come out of their transitional period, Rangers are in one right now.

Edited July 24, 2006 by liamwannabe

[The Kraig]

Rangers practically have a brand new squad and have got rid of the useless shit we didn't need (Marvin Andrews, Watterreus, Alex Rae). The only good Celtic signing is Riordan, Miller's a Rangers reject and Jarosik's done what? Got relegated with Birmingham? Whoopee. Celtic's team are going to need to rely on Wallace, Maloney and Nakamura a lot.

And Celtic have barely scored at all in pre-season. It's embarrassing when they're representing Scotland overseas.

And monopoly means a business-like company, which Hearts have become overnight. Rangers and Celtic actually had to build their empires. My point is, Hearts have far more money than a club like them should have (based on supporter size), but are slowly doing what Chelsea did, and that's get people completely unrelated to the club supporting them.

And logic says Rangers are the favourites after reaching the final 16 in the Champions League (and only then losing out on away goals), and the fact we beat Hearts at the end of last season proved we were just unlucky not to finish 2nd at least. Not to mention Petrov is adamant on leaving and John Hartson isn't around to foul everyone.

Seriously, I'm not biased about it. Last season I said Celtic were favourites to win, because they had the better squad, mainly because McLeish's signings sucked the cock. Rangers just seem to have the better momentum and team than Celtic (so far). Plus we'll have Boyd from the start of the season this time around, not to mention the youngsters and Frenchmen Le Guen's brought in as well as Svennson AND Sionko. And we always have Prso, Buffel and Novo already in the team.

See where I'm coming from now? --__--

I wish hugobomb would just hurry up and pick teams.

[fineintent]

Jarosik is actually a very good player who, like Pennant and Upson, happened to play for a very shit team.

[Turbo Yannis]

St. Johnstone

That's all you need to know.

St. Mirren dammut. St. Johnstone are shitty first division, he wants top flight!

[Liam]

Rangers practically have a brand new squad and have got rid of the useless shit we didn't need (Marvin Andrews, Watterreus, Alex Rae). The only good Celtic signing is Riordan, Miller's a Rangers reject and Jarosik's done what? Got relegated with Birmingham? Whoopee. Celtic's team are going to need to rely on Wallace, Maloney and Nakamura a lot.

And Celtic have barely scored at all in pre-season. It's embarrassing when they're representing Scotland overseas.

And monopoly means a business-like company, which Hearts have become overnight. Rangers and Celtic actually had to build their empires. My point is, Hearts have far more money than a club like them should have (based on supporter size), but are slowly doing what Chelsea did, and that's get people completely unrelated to the club supporting them.

And logic says Rangers are the favourites after reaching the final 16 in the Champions League (and only then losing out on away goals), and the fact we beat Hearts at the end of last season proved we were just unlucky not to finish 2nd at least. Not to mention Petrov is adamant on leaving and John Hartson isn't around to foul everyone.

Seriously, I don't know why I bother arguing with you? Ok, lets run through this:

- Rangers have a new coach, who is good, so it might breed some kinda fruition, fair enough.

- Rangers have a bought some players, doesn't mean they will perform in the SPL. Looking at the players now, no-one jumps out at me as anyone particularly good, but we'll have to see on that one.

- Jarosik only got relegated with Birmingham? Just pick and choose the information you want to use. Firstly, he was deemed worth buying by Jose Mourinho, but naturally due to the squad depth of Chelsea he never really got a chance. Add to that the fact that he was probably the best player in a Birmingham shirt on their way down and looked good playing in the EPL means I don't overly worry about how he may or may not perform in the SPL.

- Miller played for Ranger's 4 seasons ago, zOMG REJECT. So, he didn't make it at Rangers, or you let him go? He then went and scored 1 in 3 for Wolves in the Chmapionship/Premiership (which, I know you'll argue, but I'd debate the Championship is a tougher league than the SPL on the whole) and was also pretty good for Hibernian which tempted Rangers into signing him. Add to that the fact that he is now 27 and more experienced than when he played for Rangers and a regular Scotland international, the fact he was let go by Rangers bears little relevance to how he may perform.

- Celtic also have bought in a few more players, but again, no-one really jumps off the page, so we'll have to see how they perform.

- Celtic also SEEM to have a better youth side at their disposal, but that is neither here nor there.

- Pre-season results really don't matter...hell, Fulham lost to Exeter a couple of weeks ago, I'm not exactly up in arms over it. They haven't been great, but the fact that it is all about a slow build up in fitness and getting the squad gelled was kinda shown in their 1-0 over Everton at the weekend, which was a more important result than a lot of the others based on how close in proximity it was to the start of the season.

- A monopoly does NOT mean a business like company. If you are going to start using words, use them right.

1. Exclusive control by one group of the means of producing or selling a commodity or service: “Monopoly frequently... arises from government support or from collusive agreements among individuals” (Milton Friedman).

2. Law. A right granted by a government giving exclusive control over a specified commercial activity to a single party.

3.

1. A company or group having exclusive control over a commercial activity.

2. A commodity or service so controlled.

4.

1. Exclusive possession or control: arrogantly claims to have a monopoly on the truth.

2. Something that is exclusively possessed or controlled: showed that scientific achievement is not a male monopoly.

As 9 To 5 said, you could argue that Hearts had a monopoly on the transfer market, but looking at all the players Rangers have bought, I doubt that one would fly. Rangers and Celtics are the only members of any monopoly/oligopoly in the SPL, and that is because no-one has won the title but them for ages.

- Logic would dictate that Celtic are the favourites. Why? Because they won it last season and there has really been nothing to prove that you'd do any better at this point. Arguably, the relevance of your Champons League performances to how you did last season and how you'll do this season in the SPL are minimal, and are treated as such...and you didn't exactly set the world alight last season in the Champions League anyway, since you only actually won 1 match. Sure, you did better then Celtic, but you weren't exactly all conquering along the way. Celtic won at a canter last season in the SPL, and arguably threw away the SPL the season before when it was in their hands. They haven't lost that many players from their SPL winning side and Rangers have bought loads of players who are unproven in the SPL, so there is no reason to believe Rangers should be installed as favourites. And the whole "oh, we beat Hearts which proved we were unlucky to not be 2nd" is rubbish, as not only did they finish ahead of you based on performances in 36 odd other games, I'd say that both Celtic and Rangers were lucky that Hearts had an idiot for a chairman, or Hearts could have pushed Celtic to the wire and been even further ahead of Rangers.

- Hartson is a traditional centre forward, and I find it laughable that when people play like that, they get called "dirty" or a "fouler", especially considering the style he plays basically invites people to kick lumps out of him.

Edited July 25, 2006 by liamwannabe

[fineintent]

Hartson is an under-rated footballer in my estimation - he is more than just a brutish centre-forward, but Scotland is hardly the best place to show off your footballing skills. You sort of need to keep it route 1 and physical.

[Liam]

Well, Hartson was the go to player for a couple of sides struggling in the Premiership in his career because you knew he could play, score goals and he works 110%. Very under-rated.

[fineintent]

Well, Hartson was the go to player for a couple of sides struggling in the Premiership in his career because you knew he could play, score goals and he works 110%. Very under-rated.

[The Kraig]

Seriously, I don't know why I bother arguing with you.

- Celtic also SEEM to have a better youth side at their disposal, but that is neither here nor there.

- A monopoly does NOT mean a business like company. If you are going to start using words, use them right.

I'd say that both Celtic and Rangers were lucky that Hearts had an idiot for a chairman, or Hearts could have pushed Celtic to the wire and been even further ahead of Rangers.

- Hartson is a traditional centre forward, and I find it laughable that when people play like that, they get called "dirty" or a "fouler", especially considering the style he plays basically invites people to kick lumps out of him.

[Liam]

Quoting that a monopoly is what both of us said it was to prove you're right, it retarded.

I'm not going to go into anymore arguments about any other points, because it is pointless, but what I stated as a monopoly and what you stated are two different things, as was then shown by 9 to 5 also disagreeing with your version of it. I have a GCSE at Economics, he has some kinda Business thing, so yeah, we know a little about what we are saying.

It is probably as much a case of you using a "buzzword" that has probably been used by others even though it actually doesn't overly make sense, rather than you getting it totally wrong.

EDIT: Although saying you are "showing the landscape" is kinda funny when you make statements akin to "beating Hearts towards the end of the season showed we were unlucky not to be second" and "we are favourites because we got far in the Champions League". Fulham beat Chelsea at the end of last season and Arsenal got further than Chelsea in the Champions League...holy shit, Fulham were UNLUCKY not to finish a lot higher, and Arsenal are quite obviously favourites to win the title, yeah?

SECOND EDIT: As an intruiging aside, apparently Celtic have contacted Venegoor Of Hesselink and Timoschuk (sp? on both of them) as potential transfer targets. I think Venegoor would be a really good signing.

Edited July 27, 2006 by liamwannabe

[9 to 5]

Fulham beat Chelsea at the end of last season and Arsenal got further than Chelsea in the Champions League...holy shit, Fulham were UNLUCKY not to finish a lot higher, and Arsenal are quite obviously favourites to win the title, yeah?

We beat Chelsea AND Arsenal, plus Man Utd twice. Shouldn't we be champions of the world? >_>

[Liam]

Fulham beat Chelsea at the end of last season and Arsenal got further than Chelsea in the Champions League...holy shit, Fulham were UNLUCKY not to finish a lot higher, and Arsenal are quite obviously favourites to win the title, yeah?

We beat Chelsea AND Arsenal, plus Man Utd twice. Shouldn't we be champions of the world? >_>

I was being facetious, but yes, yes you are

I just wanted to say facetious to be honest >_>

[9 to 5]

That's very fair. >_>

Oh, monopoly is when one business, or team is this case, has almost total control over the market. Duopoly means two similar sized teams who has almost total control over the market. 70% of market share iirc.