2008/2009 Hockey Thread v2.0

[Plubby]

I don't think Canadians (and it is always Canadians, hence my biterness) should be the ones who judge who does and doesn't get to have a team. Hockey should be for everyone, not for who Canada decides deserves it.

Edited January 24, 2009 by Credence Plubby Revival

[Cactus Drags]

I get that, but there's a shitload of American teams who shouldn't be where they are. Take Nashville, either last season or the season before, I forget, but they were playing really well, some decent players in, basically putting out a quality product, yet they couldn't come close to selling out their rink (maybe it's partly because it's the horrible Gaylord Entertainment Centre moniker >_>). Put that team like...anywhere in Canada and they'd basically have been printing their own money.

[SeanDMan]

...it's not like Canadians have "Hockey Executor" stamped on their passport. The people who decide whether hockey works in a market or not are (wait for it) the people in the actual market themselves. It's not people in Toronto who decide that Nashville isn't a viable market for an NHL, it's the people in Nashville.

Let me give you an example.

There's a city that has an NHL team. The team is young and exciting, but the problem is is that the economy is bad. The bad economy combined with an outdated arena means that the team is struggling to make ends meet. They don't have the corporate sponsorship so a new owner buys the team and begins making plans to move them.

Familiar story. Am I talking about Nashville, or Pittsburgh, or Long Island maybe?

No, I was talking about Winnipeg.

It works both ways, Plubby. It's not anti-American bias that has Canadians saying "hockey doesn't work in City X", it's actual logirythmic thinking. You look at the numbers and it's plain to see that it isn't working. There are some markets in the States that are absolute monster revenue machines, but it's easy to see cities in the states that have good teams, like Jersey and Detroit, and see them fail to fill their building. That kind of stuff is unthinkable up here; look at how fucking bad the Leafs are, they still sellout every night. So it's easy for a misconception or a generalization to form, but in most cases, it's not without basis in fact.

[SeanDMan]

Just to expand on that with some hard figures:

2009 Attendance Stats: http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?s...t&year=2009

Canadian Teams in Top Ten for Avg Attendance: 5/6

Canadian Teams in Top Ten for Total Attendance: 4/6

2008 Attendance Stats: http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?s...t&year=2008

Canadian Teams in Top Ten for Avg Attendance: 5/6

Canadian Teams in Top Ten for Total Attendance: 5/6

2007 Attendance Stats: http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?s...t&year=2007

Canadian Teams in Top Ten for Avg Attendance: 5/6

Canadian Teams in Top Ten for Total Attendance: 5/6

It's telling as well that in those same categories, but for the Bottom Ten, all ten teams were American.

[Plubby]

Sean, just because the Preds aren't working in Nashville, or the Islanders aren't working in NY, that doesn't mean Canadians should be allowed to say that those who DO attend these games, and who love hockey just as much as you or I or anyone else does shouldn't get to see their teams. I don't know why it bothers me, because these people have no say, but it does.

I know I was generalising, but the *season* hockey threads have seen it from pretty much all the contributing Canadians on this board, so what else am I meant to believe?

[SeanDMan]

But hockey is not a magical gift made of sugar and happiness we dispense to all the peoples of the world, making possible an end to tyranny, hunger and suffering, and bringing about a new age of prosperity, world peace, and simultaneous orgasms. Hockey is a business, and if a team is sucking air than it being jettisoned could be better for the whole product. Contraction is something I have argued against (see some of my sprawling rants from last season's posts) and I would still argue it's a last resort, but just because people say "Hockey isn't working in Nashville" doesn't mean people are sucking "bunch of fucking hicks don't know shit about hockey, should move it to 'trana", it more often than not "this city lacks both the economic building base for, the entertainable populace of, and the corporate support to be a successful hockey city". It's not born out of a sense of entitlement or snobbiness, it's cold economic fact. Sure, sometimes its said by a snark in a snarky fashion, but it's still true.

[Plubby]

But hockey is not a magical gift made of sugar and happiness we dispense to all the peoples of the world, making possible an end to tyranny, hunger and suffering, and bringing about a new age of prosperity, world peace, and simultaneous orgasms.

And this is the "taking hockey for granted" bit. IT IS FOR ME!

[Reddaye]

Yikes...this thread went south fast.

I hope I didn't give the impression of being a hockey elitist just because I crapped on the All-Star Game a bit LOL.

As far some American markets not 'deserving' teams...I think when you see Nashville needing to buy their own tickets in order to hit that bare minimum requirement for the CBA, than there's a bit of a problem. They have more people coming to their games this season than last but the growth rate is probably too slow. They need major upgrades to their team roster in order to get over the hump, but they'd need to spend more money to get better players. It's kind of a lose, lose situation for the poor bastards. I'd hate to see them lose their team though.

Does get kind of annoying hearing Ron MacLean always go on about "OUR game" every time he opens his mouth. Talk like that kind of makes me shake my head.

[Toe]

Don't worry, everyone craps on the All-Star game.

Here is a fun fact - Phoenix will not be getting their full share of revenue this season because they cannot average 14,000 fans. Nashville is about 400 under and are going to buy their own tickets just so they can get their share.

There are awesome hockey fans in Nashville and Phoenix. They are just in the minority. The teams have not been marketed well and in some markets, you have to be successful to sell. Nashville has been successful and still can't sell. They can't get significant corporate sponsors and it makes the teams lose money. Some of the economic problems come from the poor TV deal the NHL has. It was the right deal in terms of the money made, but it is such a shitty deal in terms of exposure for all teams.

Putting a team in Toronto would be an instant money maker. There are also a bunch of American markets that Gary Bettman would rather see get teams first. Kansas City and Las Vegas are just two options.

Oh, and the guy who decides who gets a franchise and stuff...is an American from Queens, New York.

Edited January 24, 2009 by Toe

[Reddaye]

Gary Bettman is all knowing, and all powerful. Haven't you heard?

[Toe]

Gary Bettman is all knowing, and all powerful. Haven't you heard?

Gary Bettman is actually the alien overlord of Jupiter. His true purpose on Earth has yet to be revealed.

[Lowerdeck]

So far there's rumors of...

Islanders possibly to Kansas City - I'm not sure why though. If the Isles didn't suck balls and had an improved arena, there's a good base for the team. Or at least I believe so.

There's a lot of talk in Hartford about trying to get Phoenix to move there. But Hartford needs to replace the Civic Center, so that won't be any time soon. Maybe if there was an arena deal, but that won't be at least until the middle of the next decade.

[Clawson]

Schenn>Price

[Toe]

The Islanders aren't moving. The rumours are just a ploy to "scare" the city into helping with a new stadium. I would consider the Islanders safe, and once they get their shit together, a strong hockey franchise.

[Plubby]

The Superskills competition was AWESOME to watch on NHL.com this year. Ovechkin and Savard are class entertainers for athletes, Thomas made some amazing saves and they lit the *bleep* out of Carey Price

[Maxx]

I don't know if I like having the goalie on the breakaway challenge. Its supposed to be like the NBA's Dunk Contest, but in that you don't have to make your dunks with a defender in your face. They should just use a smaller, empty net. That'll give alot of guys more room to be creative, IMO

[IAceI]

I love how Getzlaf seemed to screw up his first two attempts or so, so instead he mixed it up and pulled out the best goal of the breakaway contest. That was some good shit there.

[Enter Blue Guy]

That poor goalie could not look like he was trying any less, but still did a damn good job of keeping his save percentage respectable.

Props to Ovie, Doan, and Tim Thomas. Out of everybody there, nobody looked like there were having more a fun then those three guys.

Malkin prepping Alex was very cool to watch, Tim Thomas seemed determined to put on a show in net, and Doan looked like he was having a blast in the elimination shootout. Great way to end of the usual exhausted skills comp, with Doan winning with his daughter on the bench. Ovechkin's enthusiasm was very contagious, if it wasn't for him, we probably wouldn't have watched past the Breakaway Challenge.

Oh and Schenn looked good in that 3 on 3 pond hockey showcase... No, but he did look good. And he scored a goal. Hurrah. Actually, Rinne was pretty impressive in goal for the rooks.

Edited January 25, 2009 by Enter Blue Guy

[Lowerdeck]

The Islanders aren't moving. The rumours are just a ploy to "scare" the city into helping with a new stadium. I would consider the Islanders safe, and once they get their shit together, a strong hockey franchise.

Yeah. I don't consider them likely to move either. They got a good fanbase, and bigger than in some of the southern cities. Does Nashville or Phoenix really need a team? The team just sucks, and Nassau Coliseum needs a renovation or replacement.

So yes, tomorrow I'm going to the All Star Game...

... the AHL one

[Toe]

Nassau Coliseum might be the worst arena in the league. It is down to Nassau and Mellon Arena...and that one is being replaced soon.