EWB Around the Horn

[GhostMachine]

First of all, there are two good reasons why I wouldn't trade for Jason Kidd if I was an owner:

First, he's got a bad reputation, and I wouldn't want that rubbing off on my other players. I'm especially sure that the coach wouldn't want that either.

Second, RDB obviously forgot something, and that's the fact that Jason Kidd has a bad knee. I wouldn't want to put him on my team and risk him ending up injured and needing season-ending surgery or at least being out a few weeks.

I pretty much agree with everything else that RDB said, especially about the Nets being one of the worst run organizations in the NBA (along with Cleveland, who pulled some boneheaded moves since the season ended). That's a given. I also believe that he'll end up in L.A. if he does get traded. However, as a Lakers fan, I'm hoping it doesn't happen.

Of course, if it does happen, maybe I'll be lucky and he and Kobe will kill each other..... :thumbsup:

There's recently been some talk about Vince Carter wanting out of Toronto, and rumors that there might be a trade between the Raptors and Knicks, with Toronto getting Stephon Marbury in exchange for Carter. Personally, if I was the GM of any team even looking at Kidd right now, I'd try to pull off the trade with the Raptors, instead of letting the Knicks do it. If the rumor is true, that is.

I don't believe Mark Cuban will trade for Jason Kidd, unless he gets rid of some dead wood instead of giving up some quality players in the process.

Edited August 8, 2004 by GhostMachine

[Slimg]

Dallas cleared up that space to bring is Shaq and it didn't happen. To bring in Jason Kidd would give great experience to Luis Flores and Devin Harris. Harris and Flores are quite ready yet and playing behind Kidd will be a huge help. The Mavs have 2 future Point Guards that may, could and/or will be stars. As mentioned before the Mavs could use Jason Terry as bait to pull in Jason Kidd.

I hate to point out the future again but Sasha Vujacic will be a great Point Guard for the Lakers. Kidd would be a good help here for Vujacic also. Marcus Banks also has a good upside. The Lakers could really use a point guard that could play and help the Lakers win. But who would the lakers trade? Could Karl Malone be traded and Odom will play power forward with Caron Butler at Small forward? Malone may not be happy with that because that could be he won't have a good chance to win "the big one." The nets are in need of a good Power Forward or Center too. The Lakers have alot of Centers, but Pavel isn't ready to go and start, Vlade and Brian Grant could be good to send over with the other one starting at Center.

The Spurs have Tony Parker who is a good Point Guard that will bring them many more years, points, assists and wins. The spurs will not get Kidd.

When it comes down to it I see the Mavs picking up Kidd.

[Blitz]

*RDB* - 9

Ghost Machine - 6

slimg - 8

TOTAL POINTS

slimg - 17

BnBH - 11

*RDB* - 17

GhostMachine - 19

Max Kellerman: BnBH, finish off this round.

[Guest BacknBlackHoez]

I beleive The San Antonio Spurs would be the bets option for Jason Kidd, it would also be a good trade for the Nets. if The Nets get Tony Parker & Malik Rose in return for J-Kidd, then Jersey, with Parker & Jefferson, can be on a good road to re-building, plus Malik Rose gives a good rebounder downlow in the East.

But if San Antonio can put J-Kidd together with Duncan, and both can stay injury free, watch out Western Conference! this could potentially be the best or maybe 2nd best 1-2 punch, right behind Tmac & Yao in Houston.

So form my point of view a San Antonio/New Jersey trade makes the most sense, but wherever J-Kidd goes, it'll be interesting watch him go back to New Jersey, or Brooklyn and play against his former team!

[Blitz]

Max Kellerman: Good for seven points BnBH. Onto the next topic.

The Dallas Cowboys will have a whole new look for their offense this year.  They have added quarterbacks Vinny Testeverde and Drew Henson, running backs Eddie George and Julius Jones, and added controversial wide receiver Keyshawn Johnson.  Along with their makeup, the New York Giants, Philadelphia Eagles, and Washington Redskings got a little juice to their tank too.  New York added Kurt Warner and Eli Manning, Philadelphia added Jeavon Kearse and Terrell Owens, and Washington got Clinton Portis and head coach Joe Gibbs.  The question is, will any of the teams be BETTER than they were last year?  Who will win the division?  And finally, who had the best offseason?

Max Kellerman: slimg?

[Slimg]

Two teams will be better than last year, 1 team will be worst, and 1 team will stay the same.

The Giants and Redskins will be better.

The Giants with Eli? I don't like Eli or his dad because of what they did at the Draft. I don't care whos idea it was, you are not bigger than the NFL. But enough about that... Warner and Eli need to switch the QB spot for the first few games and break Eli in, then in week 5 give Eli the full start. Once Eli gets broken in he can be a star. They also have Tiki Barber to do the running game! They also have WR that could be turned into top player. That added in with Amani Toomer is great. It's a fired up offense that will go places. The only concern that will hold them back from winning the Division is the O-Line and the Defense. Strahan is a great player and he may be able to bring the Defense to be better but you can't count on that.

The Redskins is a team that I'm impressed with. Max I noticed you forgot to add Sean Taylor to the list of what they added on. Sean Taylor will be Defensive Rookie of the year with out question. In his first NFL game he got 2 INTs and 1 touchdown? That is a star in the making... hell by week 3 he won't be in the making he will be a star. Taylor may even be Rookie of the Year. Then you have Clinton Portis? That and Brunell is great. Sure Brunell still is getting old but he has a great offense. His WRs are just like the Giants but with Portis his team will go farther. Then Joe Gibbs knows how to win, when you know how to win you win.

The team that will get worse is the Cowboys. They released Quincy Carter! Do I need to say more? It's not like he is a top 10 quarterback but he is still the QB of the Cowboys. Vinny barely has any gas left in the tank and Henson won't be that good for a few years.

The Eagles will stay the same, it's really hard to get better. The only thing is they have a better chance at going to the super bowl but I just don't see that happening. They added T.O. and that gives added firepower for McNabb but they will still stay the same.

The Eagles will once again win the division. It is going to come down to the end but the Eagles will be in first, Redskins or Giants in second (this one will really come down to the end, second place will be interesting) and the Cowboys bringing up the rear.

The best offseason is tough. The eagles got T.O. and most people will go with them but the Redskins got Clinton Portis, Joe Gibbs and Sean Taylor. Portis will break 1700 yards rushing and get 18 TDs, Taylor will have maybe 10+ INTs and return 35% of them back for a touchdown and Joe Gibbs is a great head coach that knows how to win so the best offseason has to go to the Redskins.

[*RDB*]

OK as I've actually paid a lot of attention to the NFC East over this offseason so I have a lot of knowledge on the subject outside of the media frenzy over Quincy.

Who wins the NFC East you ask Max? Well easily if it ain't broke don't fix it.. and if you do fix it, then expect awesome results. The Philadelphia Eagles have a chance to do something no team other than the Buffalo Bills of the early 90's did, and that's be so darn dominant in one facet of the game and then come up short not once, not twice, but 4 times in a row. The Eagles will win this division, there are no questions about that.. anyone who says otherwise is either a homer or should not be on this panel.

What have the Eagles done beside lose two key corners? They solved the one hole that "everyone" said was bringing them down. You cry for WR's , well now you got the best in the game. You lose pressure up front, well you got the best DE free agent on the market. The Eagles are the only team in the East that are not in some sort of transition period and should have little difficulties reclaiming that division, but it'll be the last time.

Will they be better?

Of all the NFC East I think this is an unfair question, the entire division has gone from the easiest, and a 2 horse race to 10 wins, one of the lowest playoff qualifing win totals for the season, to now the holy grail, almighty "legendary" hall of fame coaches division. The wins Parcells snuck out last season may come for any of the 4 teams in the division now. I say they all cancel each other out..

Dallas - They have a hard hill to climb, I predict they will not get more than 10 wins.. but I don't forsee a losing season. People were quick to jump on bandwagons last season after predicting nothing but failure with Q at the reigns, I don't see why we should change our opinion now.. I think Slimg made a bad point referring to the Cowboys losing more games without Q.. I mean love him or hate him, Carter and Vinny are on the same level basically throwing wise. Screw the scrambling frequency or what not.. trust me, Quincy's leaving will have no impact on the Cowboys future or this season.

Washington - Washington has revamped their offense greatly in the offseason by getting Portis. That should solve a lot of woes in a running department that suffered when they stupidly gave away Stephen Davis. However will they improve? I say no.. the Redskins were horrendous last season on Defense as well.. one could look at Dallas's sucess and say it should work in D.C. but the Boys had a Defense to fall back on, Washington still has younger less experienced players with Arrington and Smoot leading the way. Sean Taylor looked very nice in his first preseason game, but as a rookie you must hope he learns fast as he plays a position very vunerable to a team on defense.

New York - No.. well, maybe so.. you can't get any worse, but the Giants are in horrible transition, they do not have the QB position solidified, and you know at some point ala Cincinatti, Kurt Warner is going to have to step down, more chemistry problems than you can shake a fist at, and a new head coach who is not on Parcells, Reid or Gibbs level, the Giants will lose, and then jump to Manning causing even more losses..

Philadelphia - Yes, they will improve that record and win the division by 2 games.

Finally in the offseason who had the best one?

Philadelphia had the greatest offseason, when you're that close to the SB and you actually add the part you're looking for and not just that maybe a top 5 possesion WR in the game. You've done your homework. Washington made a good draft selection for the "future".. New York drafted good for the future.. Dallas's draft picks won't even come into play into 1st round "next season"..

but T.O. and the Freak come ready and equipped right now.. you can't beat that.

[GhostMachine]

First of all, I'm going to cover the Cowboys. For two reasons: The Cowboys are my favorite team, and I'm sick of all the talk about Quincy Carter.

I can't believe everyone is saying Dallas is in trouble because they let Carter go, and Vinnie Testaverde is washed up. LOOK AT THE STATS, PEOPLE! Last season, Carter had 17 touchdowns, but also had 21 interceptions. Before he was injured, Testaverde had 7 touchdowns and only 2 interceptions. They've traded a young, inaccurate drug addict...er....quarterback....for an older, more experienced and more accurate, but less mobile quarterback. Testaverde may be long in the tooth as quarterbacks go, but lets not forget that during their last seasons, John Elway, Dan Marino and Joe Montana were still better than half the other quarterbacks in the league. Plus, Dallas added Keyshawn Johnson and Eddie George to the roster. Unfortunately, Johnson has been more talk than action so far, but Eddie George will be more than ready to step up if Julius Jones proves to be a bust, and will be able to take over if JJ needs a rest.

As long as his blockers do their job, Testaverde's lack of mobility shouldn't pose too much of a problem for Dallas. His passing accuracy should make up some for the yards they won't be getting because he isn't running much.

HOWEVER, Dallas hasn't upgraded their offense enough from last season. Especially with the upgrades the other teams in the division have made.

I don't think anyone can deny, however, that Dallas still has the best defensive line in the division. Everyone is saying Dallas will probably be an 8-8 team this season. I don't agree. I predict they'll finish 9-7.

The Giants. What can I say about the Giants? Well, not much. I'm one of the people who believe that Kurt Warner is over-rated. And its obvious that Eli Manning will most likely spend a year on the bench, only going in if the team is up by a few TDs, or down by a lot, in the last quarter. The Giants haven't upgraded their roster enough from last year, and their defense might even be slightly worse. Plus, I don't think their new coach, Tom Coughlin, will really fit in too well with the team. He's known too much as an old-school, hardnose type coach. If he doesn't lighten up some and let his players relax, I doubt he'll last more than two years before being let go. Giants were 4-10 last year. I'm predicting they'll still finish in the division basement, but maybe with a 1 game difference either way (ie, they'll be either 3-11, or 5-9). Btw, I know its not pertinent, but I hate Jeremy Shockey's guts.

Washington. First, let me say that Dallas and Washington both have problematic owners. But Dan Snyder is far worse. While Jerry Jones tends to hog the spotlight (anyone remember him doing most of the talking at Darryl Johnston's retirement press conference), he at least cares about how the team does and generally makes good descisions (Dave Campo as head coach is the about the only major mistake he's made in recent years). Washington's main problem is that Dan Snyder is an idiot. Getting Joe Gibbs to come back is the first thing he has done RIGHT as owner.

Clinton Portis is arguably the best running back, or at least one of the top 3, in the NFL. But I'm not too sure if he will mesh well with Gibbs' coaching style and the team's offense. (I didn't watch the pre-season win over the Broncos, so if he played any, excuse me) Mark Brunell is a competent quarterback, and is very much a major upgrade from Patrick Ramsey. My father is a Redskins fan, and it was painful for him to watch the team with Ramsey at the helm.

I'd say Dallas or Washington will finish second in the division. It all comes down to three factors: If Gibbs still has it as a coach, if Brunell and\or Testeverde stay healthy, and how both teams do against the Eagles. Dallas is screwed if Testaverde goes down, because the two backups are both unproven. Washington is screwed if Brunell goes down, because Ramsey sucks and Hasselbeck needs more seasoning. Washington has the better offense, but its not as good as the Eagles', and Dallas has better defense. Good news for Skins fans: They won't be 5-11 this year. They'll finish at, or just over, .500, unless Brunell gets hurt.

The Eagles are going to win the division, unfortunately. I say unfortunately, because they signed Terrell Owens, a player I have nothing but disgust for. A man who does have talent, but has a bad attitude and is too much of a showboat who tries to take away the spotlight from the rest of his teammates much too often.

They also got Jevon Kearse, and I predict that the Freak will bust loose in Philly.

They're the only team in the division not in a rebuilding period (although everyone in the Cowboys camp would likely deny it), and they actually upgraded at the WR and RB positions.

I will say, though, that I don't think Philadelphia will make it to the Super Bowl this year, either. For two reasons: 1. Athlon predicted a New England vs. Philadelphia Super Bowl, and they're never right. and 2. I think the Vikings and Rams will be better. At least in the playoffs.

So, I'm scoring the division like this:

1. Eagles.

2-3. Cowboys or Redskins, depending on whether or not their starting QBs stay healthy and how each team handles the Eagles.

4. Giants.

Edited August 13, 2004 by GhostMachine

[*RDB*]

The Giants. What can I say about the Giants? Well, not much. I'm one of the people who believe that Kurt Warner is over-rated. And its obvious that Eli Manning will most likely spend a year on the bench, only going in if the team is up by a few TDs, or down by a lot, in the last quarter. The Giants haven't upgraded their roster enough from last year, and their defense might even be slightly worse. Plus, I don't think their new coach, Tom Coughlin, will really fit in too well with the team. He's known too much as an old-school, hardnose type coach. If he doesn't lighten up some and let his players relax, I doubt he'll last more than two years before being let go. Giants were 4-10 last year. I'm predicting they'll still finish in the division basement, but maybe with a 1 game difference either way (ie, they'll be either 3-11, or 5-9). Btw, I know its not pertinent, but I hate Jeremy Shockey's guts.

[Blitz]

slimg - 13

*RDB* 15

Ghost Machine - 18

BnBH -

TOTAL POINTS

slimg - 30

BnBH - 11

*RDB* - 32

GhostMachine - 37

[Slimg]

Again... the Cowboys aren't powered without Carter... they got shut out. By the Texans! I know it's preseason but this is a bad omen.

Now lets give BnBH 24 hours to respond because I PMed him already.