Scrubs Mafia

[Visionary]

Yeah I can add you and it gives me a nice even number. PM's and thread should be up by the end of tonight.

[Visionary]

Game thread is up and all pm's should have been received. If you haven't recieved one then let me know.

[Sousa]

Now that I'm gone and have a clearer perspective on what's going on in the thread--and my own win condition--you'll pardon me while I politely rant for a minute.

A big part of the fun of Mafia--nearly all of the fun of Mafia, in fact, beyond *diamond cutter*ing fools into oblivion--is the pursuit of victory. There's a great feeling when you're town and you've managed to track down a scummie that's been dodgy the whole game, regardless of how it happens--from the use of an ability, from observation of the thread, etc. It's fun to find slip-ups and capitalize on them. On the other side of the coin, it's fun to be a Mafia player and have the town eating out of the palm of your hand, or to figure out that the target you offed last night was the doctor who's been protecting the town's primary investigator for the entire game. It's a good feeling.

And it's a good feeling largely because you're that much closer to victory.

That having been said, if I were in a position where I was playing a Mafia game, was still alive, and was told this by the GM...

Ok guys, for what it's worth if you have a win condition that cannot be achieved it because in your current state you cannot win.

...I would be pretty pissed off.

If you can't win a game, you should be eliminated. It's that simple. Forcing players to stick around when they can't win simply because they haven't been killed is no fun at all. There's no point in pursuing the scum (or the town), and when there's no point... there's no fun.

In short, if I were still in that game and in LittleDaniel's position, I'd be demanding a modkill PDQ.

I'm pretty sure it's your first game, Visionary, but the rule of KISS very much applies to Mafia--particularly your first game. Most players should win with either the town or the Mafia, and if a player can no longer win, that player should be killed.

But that's my perspective. Others may vary.

[TEOL]

Yeah, the moral here is simple: giving everyone different win conditions is far, far too complicated. I remember having this argument with Plubby over one of his Mafias too so I'll repeat my point here: if you're Town, your win condition is 'You win when there are no threats to the Town remaining', if you're Mafia your win condition is 'You win when at least half the remaining players are Mafia aligned', and if you're individual your win condition is 'You win when you are the last man standing'. Anything more complicated than this is simply trying too hard.

[TheRossWalker]

There are a couple of variations that can work if used sparingly (ex. Mafia Turncoat (though that's fairly hard to work), survivor-class individual), but really, unless you're familiar with game mechanics on a deeper level, you shouldn't be using them.

Also, when I saw I was tied to another role, I thought "I bet it's fucking Sousa or someone else who always gets killed right away".

Why couldn't I have been wrong? :/

[TEOL]

survivor-class individual

if you're individual your win condition is 'You win when you are the last man standing'

How are these different, exactly?

[TheRossWalker]

Survivor-class: You can win with any side.

[TEOL]

Meh, those are fucking lame.

Also, of course, I was placed in a classic no-win situation by FD in the first CHIKARA Mafia and yet at that time, no one cared about it but me.

[-A-]

Another thing that relates to this is having storyline-based rules or win conditions. Having something like 'Keith and Elliot must find/convert each other' makes sense in a story, but it doesn't often make for a good game. Abilities and win conditions should be primarily based around what makes for a good game mechanism and not what's sensible in the storyline.

[Pesci]

Anybody who tries a themed mafia after SBTB is just fighting a losing battle anyway.

[The Mask of Norro]

Anybody who tries a themed mafia after SBTB is just fighting a losing battle anyway.

I'm still considering doing Webcom IV further down the line. If anything, I'd say I'd be dropping a bomb of success and activity on the Game Cube if my rate for both in the series over the past three games has been any indication >_>

[LittleDaniel]

I'm not going to lie, I'm still having fun. Sure, I'm pissed, but I get to rolepost now. I'd never do that if I had a chance of winning, but now...