Deadliest Warrior season 2 starting soon

[OctoberRaven]

Yes, well to be fair I don't think anyone outside of the production crew know the details of the simulator used in the show and how it works. I think the weapon data is put into numbers which is collected in a spreadsheet, and then probably plays out in some kind of RPG fight system. But that's just a theory.

So the reason why they probably don't put those into consideration... is because the windmills do not work that way in the program.

[GhostMachine]

The DVD set has all the Aftermaths on it, and in one of them Max said something interesting: that the edge they give to weapons has no factor in the simulation at all. Its just speculation on their part. And the Shaolin Monk vs. Maori episode shows that; the Maori got the edge against everything the Shaolin had except the twin hooks and still got the worst asskicking the show has had yet.

I don't think they fudge numbers to determine who wins. I just think they sometimes ignore certain things (sorry, but Knight vs Pirate's outcome was WRONG), and you have to consider that they don't factor in things like training, martial arts skills, and other things. So the outcomes aren't going to be accurate. If anything, I believe in real life the Spetsnaz would beat the Green Berets by a bigger margin than they did.....then would all get taken out by Green Beret snipers.

Another thing about Green Beret vs. Spetsnaz? I bitched that they had the Green Berets using an E-tool as a weapon. Well, on the Aftermath about that episode, Barry Jacobsen (who was on the Spartan vs. Ninja episode as a Spartan expert and is the show's historian, as well as a former Green Beret) told a story that pretty much put my complaint to rest. In Viet Nam (I think), a single Green Beret killed 27 enemy soldiers in a battle with one, using it sort of like a battle axe.

Oh, and Barry is pretty much gay for Spartans. In one Aftermath segment on the DVD set with him, the doctor and Max, talking about their favorite moments on the show, Barry's answers for favorite warrior, battle, outfit, etc was almost always `Spartan', but he'd usually give his second choice as well. Almost makes me think Spartan vs. Samurai from the Out For Blood special, which I'm glad I didn't see (I did see the Spetsnaz vs. IRA fight) was indeed fixed.

I still maintain, however, that Knight vs. Pirate was either fixed or needs a do-over.

Another thing I found out from one of the Aftermaths? They film the battle with both sides winning, so the results don't get leaked before they air, since they have something like 120 people around. No word on if the footage of the loser winning is eventually destroyed or not, though.

[OctoberRaven]

I hope not, because man, I'd love to see how the fight SHOULD have gone down between Spartan vs Samurai

Edited May 27, 2010 by OctoberRavenO

[OctoberRaven]

Tonight's ep.

LOVED the fight scene, probably the best one this season. Tricked me into thinking the car bomb would be the finish.

This was also one of the few episodes where I genuinely thought either side could win; on one hand the Somalians clearly had the better firearms (and anyone who doubts the accuracy of the AK-47 should see this episode. He may have missed like two or three rounds if that) but the car bomb... man, that could have been a win button on the level of the Shaolin twin hooks. The potential killzone for that thing was just insane... their demo was, what, 40 pounds of TNT right? Could you imagine if they factored in the potential 1,100 that they talked about? CLICK... DOOMSDAY.

Also the grappling hook was an interesting weapon. You'd never really think that a grappling hook could cause that much trauma until you actually see it happen... but I still think the machete was the better melee weapon because well... it was the simpler and more straightforward one.

[OctoberRaven]

Okay this week's ep.... rant alert...

What the FUCK?

Immortals winning I can understand, but this may be my ancestry talking but there is NO FUCKING WAY that it should have been a blowout.

How the fuck did the chariot scythe- which was deemed an incapacitory weapon, and the show is notorious for such weapons getting little to no kills- get over ONE HUNDRED FUCKING KILLS when the Celtic club, which WAS a one-hit instant-killer, got FUCKING FOURTEEN KILLS? Is the fucking computer program using World of Darkness rules where blunt force is half as effective as bladed weapons that do the same damage?

Moreover why wasn't the Perisan spear tested against the belly armor? Or the arrows for that matter? I think the Lancea would have went through Persian armor, and if not would have certainly knocked the Persian on his ass, but I question if the Persian spear would work against belly armor... and the arrows probably wouldn't have either.

The fight scene was okay except with one glaring logical flaw. Why did the Celt pick up his Lancea after the first throw, only to toss it aside. YOU PICKED IT BACK UP, FOR MORRIGAN'S SAKE FUCKING USE IT YOU IDIOT!

This HAD to have been seriously fudged, to make the Spartans look better ("Hey, these guys got an insane kill ratio, and it took TEN THOUSAND of them to beat the three hundred Spartans! AREN'T SPARTANS AWESOME?!").

KGB vs CIA next, at least we'll get to see some awesome unconventional weaponry... SUITCASE GUN!

After that though what's next? Sun Tzu vs Vlad is the only thing left right?

Edited June 16, 2010 by OctoberRavenO

[Mick]

Okay this week's ep.... rant alert...

After that though what's next? Sun Tzu vs Vlad is the only thing left right?

Ming Warrior vs Musketeer

Israeli Commando vs Navy Seal

Comanche vs Mongol

Those are the others aside from Sun Tzu vs Vlad

As for the episode...

The long range weapons is what really hurt the Celts. It was the same long range weapon as Apache vs Gladiator, and nearly the same margin (180 to 1 for last weeks, 188 to 1 in Gladiator/Apache)

As for the scythe, even though it didn't kill any targets (though I think if my legs went through that thing, I'd be wanting to die , it was a lot more impressive than any of the distraction type weapons. Plus, you figure the mobility and the fact that it's an actual weapon and not a distraction, as well as the fact that the Persian is probably aiming his spear right at you...

I'm sure the Spear and Arrows could've pierced the belly armor.

[GhostMachine]

SPIKE has apparently stopped re-running the new episodes - used to run them again a couple of hours later, on the weekend, and again before the next new episode, but seem to have stopped. Pisses me off because I still haven't seen Roman Centurion vs. Rajput and missed last night's episode, even though I was pretty sure I knew who was going to win (and was right).

The rumor is that Vlad the Impaler vs. Sun Tzu may not be a one on one OR a squad battle, but actually army vs army! NO WAY I will miss it if that's true.

Now, regarding last night's episode, since I do read spoilers when I miss episodes:

I was expecting the Persian Immortals to win due to an armor advantage. Kind of don't want to see the episode at all considering the Immortals were wiped out by the Spartans, who Barry Jacobsen (one of the Spartan weapon testers and the show's historian, as well as a former Green Beret) has a hard on for, and that some of my ancestors were Celts (I have English, Irish, Scottish and Cherokee Indian ancestry).

It was another bad match-up, in my opinion, but not as much of a mismatch as Spartan vs. Ninja (who never should have been used at all; they're assassins, not warriors) or Maori vs. Shaolin Monk.

Israeli Commando vs. Navy SEAL will be interesting. In real life, I think the Israeli Commando would win due to Krav Maga training if it went to hand to hand combat.

KGB vs. CIA I may skip on purpose. Sounds lame.

[OctoberRaven]

Actually, other than Sun Tzu vs Vlad The Impaler of course, KGB vs CIA sounds the most interesting of the remaining ones.

Also will probably make for a really cool fight sequence.

[GhostMachine]

KGB vs. CIA will probably start out with one side discovering they've been wiretapped/bugged and following it to the source where the combat commences.

If the show makes it to season 3, I'd like to see the following:

1. No siege/battlefield wepaons unless its appropriate (Alexander using a Ballista vs. Attila was a joke), and no vehicle mounted weapons AT ALL.

2. If one side has a sling as a weapon, it doesn't even get tested. Give the edge to the other side's weapon automatically unless its something that's total crap.

3. Spartan vs. Spetsnaz!

Edited June 17, 2010 by GhostMachine

[OctoberRaven]

Of course, 3 won't happen unless Spartan wins.

Jacobsen: "IT'S A WALL OF BRONZE! YOU RUSKIES DON'T STAND A CHANCE!"

Meanwhile Sonny Puzikas just shrugs because he knows he can kill Jacobsen with a toothpick if he wanted to.

By the way, Ghost:

Celt vs Persian IS a good espisode, if you ignore the way the special weapons end up factoring into the kill counts.

If you watch I'm sure you'll agree the Celts were robbed.

Edited June 17, 2010 by OctoberRavenO

[The Quasi Juice]

The Rajput were interesting. Last episode was one of the most boring ones, I prefer to see tribes like the Rajput with very unorthodox weapons than the Celts who I found pretty identical to the Vikings in the way they approach war. Also, GhostMachine, if you're still interested in seeing those episodes you missed, I watch all episodes the day after it's aired in high quality (and later it's available in HD) so I can hook you up with the link if you want.

[OctoberRaven]

So, I think the Ballista/Scorpion is no longer the most nonsensical weapon in the season, as Vlad The Impaler will have...

Execution stakes

...HUH?!

KGB vs CIA was good, very close and a fun show, but...

Okay, the analysis of breifcase gun vs camera gun was TOTALLY flawed. First of all breifcase gun, the test showed that the first shot the CIA guy fired was only a wounding blow. That would be fine, but the test was how the CIA guy would take out a target with two bodyguards, who he didn't shoot at at all. So in that scenario, the target would have been shot the first time, and a bodyguard would tackle the target to prevent further injury while the other drew his weapon and tried to determine the assailant. Meaning that, in all likelyhood, the CIA guy might have actually failed in that scenario.

Now, as far as the CIA's argument that using the camera gun is going to get you found out, that's fucking rediculous. If a KGB guy with the camera gun was detained, they'd have to take apart the camera to realize a weapon was concealed there, which I doubt they would do thoroughly enough to find the gun barrel. OTOH, checking the CIA guy for weapons... you open the breifcase and the gun is RIGHT FUCKING THERE.

[GhostMachine]

Is KGB vs. CIA a squad or one-on-one battle?

So far this season I've missed that one, Rajput vs. Roman Centurion and Persian Immortal vs. Celt. But two of those episodes are now on On Demand. I just watched Rajput vs. Roman Centurion, but am going to wait to watch Persian Immortal vs. Celt.

I will say this: I think that in a one-on-one battle, a Rajput would beat a Roman Centurion, due to the Rajput's weapons and fighting style (including their martial arts training). BUT I think if it was a Roman squad vs. a Rajput squad, it would be no contest in favor of the Romans. Because I don't think the Rajputs could get past the Romans' shield formation.

Thought it was interesting the Rajput's sword-whip didn't get any kills at all.

And they need to fucking leave siege/battlefield weapons out of one on one fights!

P.S., Regarding the Vlad The Impaler spoiler, October.....

From what I've heard, the execution stakes will be tested but not considered part of the battle. I've seen a list of the weapons for both sides, and the stakes aren't mentioned.

[OctoberRaven]

KGB vs CIA was 5 on 5, though as a change of pace they don't have them all grouped together. Other than one WTF moment in the beginning it was an excellently staged scene.

[GhostMachine]

I just hope the final kill isn't by exploding cigar.....

As for Spartan vs. Samurai, from the Out For Blood special, which I still haven't seen (I saw the Spetsnaz vs. IRA fight from it, though), I've been thinking it over. Snd I think a fight between the two would go like this:

Ranged weapons end up being useless for both sides; arrows can't get past the bronze shield and the Samurai dodges the javelin.

The samurai can't get through the shield. If the kanabo does manage to hit at the right angle and breaks the Spartan's arm, that's the end of the battle right there: either the Spartan can't use his shield or he switches it to his other arm and can't use a weapon. And no way a Spartan armed only with a shield beats a Samurai.

The Spartan's spear either breaks on the Samurai's armor, or the Samurai's katana chops the spear's tip off, leaving the Spartan armed with a staff, either way.

So the Spartan goes for the short sword. Well, the katana is a lot sharper and is longer. Either the Spartan can't get close enough to hit the Samurai or he tries and gets his arm cut off.

I can't see any logical way for a Spartan to win unless he scores with a shield strike then follows up with a killing blow before the Samurai recovers. Samurai would have the speed and reach advantage (due to the Spartan spear being next to useless vs. a Samurai's armor); a Samurai could get three to four katana strikes in in amount of time it would take for a Spartan to get one with any weapon.

*edit* I hope the Vlad the Impaler vs. Sun Tzu battle is a full scale battle as rumored, because Sun Tzu is going to be using a siege/battlefield weapon. (N)

Edited June 30, 2010 by GhostMachine

[OctoberRaven]

No, it was one on one. God damn, I'm sure they're rigging these now, because one on one is fucking stupid...

Not to mention that tactics mean jack fucking shit, as evidenced once again by these results. Also, poison is also useless.

Also, stupid goth kids, there's only one recorded case of Vlad dipping his bread into blood, he didn't do it all the time..

Edited June 30, 2010 by OctoberRavenO

[GhostMachine]

They must be putting episodes up on On Demand after a new episode airs. They didn't have KGB vs. CIA up when I watched Rajput vs. Roman Centurion, but it was up last night so I watched it.

Its looking like I'm going to have to watch episodes on On Demand. I wasn't able to watch Vlad the Impaler vs. Sun Tzu; that's 3 episodes I've missed so far this season, though one was because I didn't know they'd stopped airing re-runs of the episodes and something else I wanted to watch was on.

The squad battle - if you could call it that - was pretty cool. The drop dead spike test was pretty awesome, as was the exploding cigar. I'd rather die from the spike than the cigar, because you might actually bleed to death from the cigar, while the spike's explosion is insta-kill.

In Vlad the Impaler vs. Sun Tzu, did they actually test the execution stakes?

(One thing I hate is listening to all the myths about Vlad the Impaler. A lot of the horror stories told about him were made up or exaggerated by his enemies, ie. propaganda. He wasn't nearly the monster he was made out to be, though he wasn't exactly a saint, either)

Next is supposed to be Ming Warrior vs. Musketeer. That may be the first episode I actually have no interest in seeing.

Edited June 30, 2010 by GhostMachine

[OctoberRaven]

They did. As you said, it was just a demo because they were useless in battle.

Presuming Sun Tzu would actually fight on the battlefield was really silly, as some historians can't even agree if Sun Tzu was one person or the pen name for several.

[GhostMachine]

I finally watched Persian Immortal vs. Celt. And October, I'm with you completely on your rant about that one.

Slings should be banned from the show. Seriously. That episode was the third or fourth time its been used by one side, and its never very effective in the final battle. They might as well just concede the edge to the other side's weapon and not even bother testing.

The battle itself was pretty cool - aside from the ending, obviously - and I like how they did show off the Celt's agility.

Personally, I think Celt vs. Maori, Celt vs. Viking or Persian Immortal vs. Samurai would have been a better matchup. Obviously, Spartan vs. Persian Immortal would have been moot.

[GhostMachine]

Pardon me for the double post, but I watched Ming Warrior vs. Musketeer and thought it was one of the best matchups they've done this season. Again, didn't like the fact they had another siege/battlefield weapon in it. The Nest of Bees was a joke, and I couldn't help laughing when the Ming expert was trying to say it deserved the edge. Might be good in a large battle where you have dozens, hundreds or thousands of targets, but not in a squad battle and definitely a one-on-one battle.....unless you can manage to fire it at point blank range!

Thought it was interesting that the Musketeers won due to their chest armor. I was pulling for the Musketeers, and actually said a "Hell yeah!" when the Musketeer killed the last two Ming Warriors)

Finally caught Vlad the Impaler vs. Sun Tzu, and its probably my favorite episode this season, even though I thought it was a bad matchup due to the question of Sun Tzu actually existing. Vlad is one of my favorite historical figures, and I've read The Art of War (though that was a long, long time ago), so I was really looking forward to it.

Okay, the crap about Vlad's ruthlessness popping up did bother me. Its pretty much known that a lot of the stories about him were exaggerations or outright lies made up by his enemies (ie, propaganda). The thing about him feasting amongst the impaled victims is pretty much a load of crap, as is him roasting children and forcing their parents to eat them. Dipping bread in his victims' blood apparently did happen on at least one occasion, but he did it as an intimidation/fear tactic in front of some enemies. (The nailing hats to heads I'm not sure about either way)

But the Kilij sword was absolutely sick, as was the repeating crossbow. I've also heard there's some controversy over whether the iron claw weapon would have been around at the time of Sun Tzu, as some experts believe it was actually invented much later.

Loved the end of the battle. I was hoping he'd impale Sun Tzu if he won, and he did.

Vlad the Impaler - When he says `up your ass!', you'd better run!