2010/2011 NBA Thread

[naiwf]

How much money will the Nets have this off-season to spend on free agents?

When they throw $7 million per to scrubs like Travis Outlaw, what does it really matter?

[the machine]

Williams is an obvious upgrade at the PG spot, but the thing is this is only a "lol Nets" situation if they can't build around the team for next year. Williams' contract runs out in 2012, and if they are as mediocre as they've been, there's no doubt but that he'll bolt to join up with a team with size in need of point guard upgrades (wishful thinking that the Clippers could be in that position in a year from now, but I'm sure they'll screw it up somehow). But Williams makes the team more attractive for free agents because he is a top 5 PG and one of the leaders in the league in assists. I think the Nets felt like they had to make some move to show they weren't just going to accept being as bad as they've been.

Also Williams may not be able to beat 'Melo one on one, but there's no denying that he's been far more productive this season. Melo has looked like a low-rent Dirk Nowitzki this season: he scores a little more, but he also takes more shots and turns the ball over significantly more to do it. Both are mediocre defenders but Dirk plays a lot smarter. Maybe a fresh start would motivate 'Melo to improve, but as it stands now he sometimes shows up unmotivated and takes a lot of bad shots. I think Williams could end up being a far better fit, if the Nets are able to build something around him. But being the Nets, that's a pretty big "if."

[Toe]

I do think this will be a bad deal if the Nets cannot keep Williams, but I think it is a great move if he signs an extension. I think Williams will help Brooks Lopez out a ton.

[sahyder1]

I like Harris a lot but Williams is an upgrade on the court. I'm sure the picks are lottery protected (at least one of the two will be for sure). Williams hasn't signed an extension in part because he's not allowed to sign one yet since he has more then a year left on his contract. Will someone like Dwight Howard want to come play with Williams? I guess we'll find out.

[gunnar hendershow]

If they keep Williams after 2012, the deal isn't that bad. Favors didn't really show a lot, and usually guys at least show that they're capable of fulfilling their potential. Harris is a good PG, he's no Williams but he was still one you could build the team around. The draft picks are the problem, especially if they aren't protected. But again, if Williams signs there then the chance exists that they can patch up their holes. But if he leaves this goes down as an awful deal.

All that talk about a coup in New York can be thrown out though, no way a team with Williams/Lopez as its core does as much as a D'Antoni coached team with Melo/Amare over the next few years.

[naiwf]

I don't know why people keep talking about Brook Lopez as being a major piece to build around. He's a 7 foot tall center that plays over 34 minutes a game and yet somehow averages less than SIX rebounds per game. Yes he can score, but any center that gets 15+ shots per game should be able to score in this league. For comparison's sake, Landry Fields aka the Knicks 2 guard, averages a touch over 7 RPG in 2 fewer minutes than Lopez.

Why would Dwight Howard want to play in Jersey when Lopez is a center? Neither one of those guys can play the 4 since they can't really operate in space/off the dribble, and if the Nets are going to get rid of Lopez to bring in Howard it's another move that kills their depth at the expense of upgrading what was already their best position player.

[Panni]

This is a great deal for the Nets, especially if Derron Williams signs the extension, which I think he'll wind up doing. They are getting the number 1 or 2 point guard in the entire NBA, as well as keeping a strong role player in Brook Lopez. While I did expect Derrick Favors to be a beast in a few years, the uncertainty wasn't worth keeping this deal from not happening.

Personally, I think they're better off trying to add good-very good role players as opposed to hoping to land Dwight Howard. I just don't see Dwight choosing Brooklyn over the Lakers. Instead, they should get another big, someone such as David West who will become a free agent, and then attempt to grab a guy like Wilson Chandler. If Golden State makes a decent push in the second half, which I doubt, the Nets will also be able to get a middle of the round 1st round pick in this year's draft.

Overall, the idea that the Knicks and Nets are soon going to be playing relevant games really excites me. If the season started over right now I could see the Knicks being a 3-5 seed, and the Nets being a 7-8 in the East. Love the idea of a meaningful cross-town rivalry.

Edited February 23, 2011 by Panni89

[DYSI]

Ugh, why did we have to give up all that for Deron Williams with no guarentee he's going to stay after his contract is over? I wasn't too high on Favors and Williams is an upgrade over Harris but giving up OUR first rounder this year (which is going to be a good lottery pick) AND another next year is a lot. I don't really know what FAs are going to be available but if we don't get another big name then I doubt we'll have Williams for more than a season and a half.

[naiwf]

I think that Utah made the best trade of the week thus far. They got Deron Williams lite, a project prospect who can develop in Denver, at least 1 lottery pick and another 1st rounder for a guy who was going to cause headaches for the next 12 months and leave anyway. Denver got a bunch of solid roleplayers and picks for Carmelo which they can choose to keep or flip. The Knicks got what they wanted and IMO only gave up a 3 point shooting Italian that would have been part of the 2012 and beyond plan anyway. NJ upgraded one of the 2 positions they had good parts at already, and gave up a lot to say they got an elite player whose fate will be determined later. If Williams stays with them for 4+ years, it's a great move. If he doesn't, they're going right back to winning 12-25 games since they will have given up young players and #1's in hopes of winning now when they have absolutely no shot of winning now.

[Meacon Keaton]

I think that Utah made the best trade of the week thus far. They got Deron Williams lite, a project prospect who can develop in Denver, at least 1 lottery pick and another 1st rounder for a guy who was going to cause headaches for the next 12 months and leave anyway. Denver got a bunch of solid roleplayers and picks for Carmelo which they can choose to keep or flip. The Knicks got what they wanted and IMO only gave up a 3 point shooting Italian that would have been part of the 2012 and beyond plan anyway. NJ upgraded one of the 2 positions they had good parts at already, and gave up a lot to say they got an elite player whose fate will be determined later. If Williams stays with them for 4+ years, it's a great move. If he doesn't, they're going right back to winning 12-25 games since they will have given up young players and #1's in hopes of winning now when they have absolutely no shot of winning now.

Exactly. If the Nets were on the bubble of going from a mediocre team to a great team with this trade, I'd say they won out on it. But giving up what they did while trying to rebuild their whole franchise seems a bit silly. I think Drago got it in his head that since the Knicks made a splash, he had to, too.

Also, maybe this trade means the Jazz will bring Sloan back.

[Panni]

How can you criticize the Nets for upgrading a position they didn't need to upgrade and then go ahead and claim that Utah made the biggest splash here. They added Derrick Favors to an already young PF core that consists of Al Jefferson & Milsap. Now I'm sure they will go ahead and trade one of them, but until that happens its not much of an upgrade at all. Also, referring to Devin Harris as Derron Williams-lite is like referring to Wilson Chandler as Carmelo Antony-lite.

I'm a Knicks fan, and I honestly feel we had the best week by adding a top 10 player to an already solid core. However, the Nets most certainly improved here. Remember it was a trade for Jason Kidd that turned the Nets from last place in east to the NBA Finals. Now the NBA is different, and Williams won't have that big of an impact, but there is at least hope. You have to give up some in order to get a top 10 pick, and that's what both the Knicks and Nets did. I find it very hard to praise one of those two trades and slam the other.

Now, if Williams doesn't resign this is a bad move, but until that is the case this is a great risk for the Nets.

[naiwf]

I just saw that the Nets pick in the trade is unprotected and Golden State's 2012 pick next year is only protected if it's between 1-7. I know the West will be weaker by then, but you're potentially talking about 3 top 10 picks and Harris for maybe 1 1/4 seasons of Deron Williams. If you're trying to build a contender, that's not the way to do it.

Even if everything goes well for NJ they will be contending for the 8th seed in the East next year and Williams was in the playoffs every year in his career besides his rookie season. Utah made it out of the 1st round 3 times out of 4 trips and he was still a malcontent. Unless the new CBA can guarantee him an extra $15+ million for staying with the Nets, I don't see why he'd want to stay there. If he opts out at the end of next summer this will go down as one of the worst trades ever, regardless of whether Utah gets anything great out of it.

----

How can you criticize the Nets for upgrading a position they didn't need to upgrade and then go ahead and claim that Utah made the biggest splash here. They added Derrick Favors to an already young PF core that consists of Al Jefferson & Milsap. Now I'm sure they will go ahead and trade one of them, but until that happens its not much of an upgrade at all. Also, referring to Devin Harris as Derron Williams-lite is like referring to Wilson Chandler as Carmelo Antony-lite.

Wilson Chandler IS Carmelo lite. Same kind of game, but not nearly as high of a ceiling. Also, Utah wasn't making the trade to pick up Favors. They were doing it to get rid of Williams. They got a PG back who will start for them, added a prospect, a lottery pick, a pick that could be in the lottery the following year and got rid of their own version of the Melodrama a year in advance. The Nets gave up the farm for a guy who plays the same position as the one they were looking to dump in a trade.

Edited February 23, 2011 by naiwf

[rocksta]

Lopez' is one of the most interesting players in the NBA to me. He is trying to add a jumpshot to his game. 60% of his shot selection is Jump Shots as opposed to 42% the year before. He is shooting at a much worse percentage. He is getting a significantly lower amount of available defensive rebounds. I could delve into the stats for ages on this guy just from last season to this one. In the end he is just playing less efficient basketball. All the tools are there though. That is not debatable. Williams will bring back the old Lopez or usher in an even better star.

Williams shits on Harris. Harris is not Williams lite. Williams is one of the best starting point guards in the league while Devin Harris is middling to bottom middle. The chasm between the two of them is greater then the one between Carmelo and Chandler. By a lot.

If Deron Williams signs an extension it's a good deal for the Nets.'

And Carmelo isn't a top 10 player. Top 10 scorer yah.

And if were basing additions on playoff success of acquired star players New York doesn't have shit either. But that would be dumb.

Edited February 23, 2011 by rocksta

[naiwf]

And if were basing additions on playoff success of acquired star players New York doesn't have shit either. But that would be dumb.

The last time I checked, the Knicks already have A'mare inked for 4 more years and Carmelo for 3 more. The Nets have Williams inked for next season as of right now. If you think he's going to enjoy missing the playoff this year, next year and then re-sign with the Nets because he's content with building a winner from the foundation up, then you're naive. He wasn't happy being on a team that made deep runs into the playoffs 4 times in his 5 year career, but now he's going to want to stay on a bad team in a tough conference because Jay Z is a partial owner?.

[rocksta]

I totally misread that. I thought you were arguing that if Williams had more playoff success he would of been a better player to trade for. That wasn't what you were saying at all. I have no qualms with that. I just want to hold off on judging the trade to see what happens with the extension. I agree if he leaves it's a terrible trade. I just think he is a great player.

[rocksta]

I totally misread that. I thought you were arguing that if Williams had more playoff success he would of been a better player to trade for. That wasn't what you were saying at all. I have no qualms with that. I just want to hold off on judging the trade to see what happens with the extension. I agree if he leaves it's a terrible trade. I just think he is a great player.

[Maxx]

Portland is shopping Oden, maybe if Prokhorov hurries he can get him straight up for Lopez!

Also, Eddy Curry is getting bought out, so we get to play a nice game of which team is stupid enough to sign a giant waste of money?

[The Heartbreak Kid]

Also, maybe this trade means the Jazz will bring Sloan back.

I think that is the next necessary step for Utah. It was either Williams or Sloan. Sloan walked, and now Williams has been delt. Sloan doesn't need to come back. He is one of the most recognized coaches in NBA history next to Phil Jackson, if I may say so. I don't see why Sloan wouldn't want to come back next season though, the problem is gone.

Edit: They're (ESPN, Jim Rome) are saying Utah didn't want to be like Denver; with the dragged out Melo-drama. But in reality, Denver did what they had to do because they didn't want to end up like Cleveland!

Edited February 23, 2011 by Disturbed

[naiwf]

This is the best day to have been a Knicks fan since we were up 3-2 in the Finals against Houston

[Meacon Keaton]

^_^