cpt.charisma Monthly Updates "Big" Change Suggestions

[Shawn Michaels]

It's good to see the hard work you pun in your mods, but i have (and a lot of people) a few problems with your mod. It has a lot of issues and i would like to know why don't you adress the major problems of it, most of them making it have really long load times. So, i'm not bashing you, just trying to discuss the subject constructively.

[cpt.charisma]

Well tell me the issues and I will try my best to answer them for you

[Shawn Michaels]

Well tell me the issues and I will try my best to answer them for you

Well, first of all let me say you make a great effort by doing this monthly, kudos for that. I think that you have the best intentions by adding so many promotions and workers but that eventually makes the mod too big and then the loading times become pretty much unbearable. Have you considered lowering the number of workers and promotions? Another thing i would suggest would be lowering overness and workers stats. In my opinion most of them are too high, which makes a mod that could be awesome become a little unbalanced. These are some of my suggestions, don't tak it personally, as i said i'm not bashing, just giving my opinion in what i hope you consider as constructive criticism. Keep up your work, a lot of people play your mods. =)

[T_S]

as a specific example Austin Aries (and a lot of the TNA main event) should have their popularity reduced by 10-15 points as well as some WWE names. Overness is a measure of how many people would pay to see them. It's not based on how they are being pushed, not based on crowd reactions/pops, but it is the measure of how big of a draw the wrestlers are.

There is just no feasible way that a guy like Austin Aries is even near Kurt Angle or Jeff hardy in terms of being draws. Another example is Daniel Bryan on the WWE side should be nowhere near A rated popularity, even giving him high B+ is a stretch because it is based purely on drawing power.

[IDOL]

Popularity does directly effect people's push though.

[T_S]

But it's all relative. As long as they are more over than others they will be pushed higher, that doesn't mean you need to overstate their overness.

[IDOL]

Then put together a sort of scale with examples you'd like them set at. The more detailed the suggestions cpt.charisma gets, the more progress will be made.

[T_S]

I'll do a top 10/15 for WWE and TNA really quick as an idea

WWE:

The Rock- 100

John Cena- 98

Brock Lesnar- 94

HHH- 93

CM Punk- 92

Chris Jericho- 84

Ryback- 84

Randy Orton- 83

Daniel Bryan- 82

Sheamus- 82

Mark Henry- 80

Kane- 78

Big Show- 77

Dolph Ziggler- 77

Alberto Del Rio- 77

TNA:

Jeff Hardy- 81

Sting- 80

Kurt Angle- 78

Bully Ray- 76

Bobby Roode - 74

James Storm- 74

Austin Aries- 72

Daniels- 69

Kaz- 67

Devon - 65

Something along those lines is how I envision most of the top guys at this particular moment at least relatively. Just filling in on down the line with other noteable names it would probably be something like RVD in the low 60s members of the Shield in the Low B- area (72/73), DoC in the low 60s and Antonio Cesaro in the upper 60s.

[IDOL]

The problem with that though is that if Sting, Angle or RVD for instance were signed away by WWE they should by all accounts be main eventers. With popularity like that they wouldn't be. Angle for instance would still have more drawing power in WWE than the high 70's.

[snakesonaplane12]

Workers have more drawing power in the WWE because the WWE itself has more drawing power than most of the roster.

The 2012 Observer Newsletter article reposted here: http://forums.prowrestling.com/showthread.php?t=111077

Concerning the history of box office draws is relevant to this discussion and an interesting read.

IDOL, you are right - but that is to conflate a workers push with a workers ability to draw - as far as I'm aware - 'overness' in TEW pertains to the ability of a worker to draw, rather than how they are necessarily perceived or pushed.

The reality is virtually none of TNA's roster should be anywhere near 70, or even 60 - based on their ability to draw crowds. I would actually wager, that the TNA brand probably draws better than most of their roster (as it is with the WWE).

Obviously Hogan, Sting, Hardy and Angle are draws (though not particularly strong ones these days for the most part), but none of their largely indy-cum-'TNA stars' are actually draws; even if they are over with the TNA fans. They would be and are virtual unknowns to the mainstream wrestling fan. I would add the Dudleyz up on TNA's list, but they scrape the 60s (higher maybe in the tri-state). The rest of the roster, despite their push are not draws and should, accurately be rated as such.

On the WWE - the confusion between push and drawing power is plain - the list posted above is essentially true to the card structure but not to drawing. Randy Orton for example is leagues ahead of Bryan Danielson as a draw, but on that list are rated almost identicially. CM Punk even outrates them, which just isn't true (in the case of Orton). Even if Punk is pushed as a main-eventer, he is not a box office draw.

Edited March 11, 2013 by snakesonaplane12

[cpt.charisma]

regarding overness, its based similar to the EWR way, if it was more based on real life then alot would be alot lower than they are

[T_S]

On the WWE side CM Punk actually IS a draw just not a huge huge draw this can be related to HHH around the start of the brand split when things went down slightly after Rock and Austin left when he was on top. CM Punk PPVs without a John Cena match have been essentially flat with the previous years PPVs that did have a Cena match as well as him consistently moving merch he's far and away the 2nd most over guy on the active roster but while still having that gap between him and Cena. Randy Orton is a strange case because he's basically floating around lost in the shuffle but he's still over as hell having him at the Jericho level seems a bit right, and Ryback well could maybe drop a point or two.

On the TNA front that is why they shouldn't be a national company because they simply don't have the workers with sufficient popularity to sustain a national level company, but they have more than enough star power to house a mid-high level Cult company. I'd agree that not many of the non WWE guys are draws but there still has to be a sense of playability there otherwise you wind up with Jeff and Angle refusing to lose ever because of the enormous gap in popularity.

[ScottHallLeg-end]

With WWE, I do not know as I don't watch it. But with regards to your argument about TNa, iI couldnt disagree more. And here is why:

Firstly, looking at Wrestling Observers 2012 awards, TNA and NJPW pretty much walked away with all the awards. TNA wn Best gimmick of the year (Jospeh Parks), best Tag Team of the year (Bad Influence) and Best Weekly TV Show (Impact). Which to me shows they definnitely have star power. Plus, if you add to this that TNA have a global Television deal, trhey are a long way form being cult as ROH is only shown in North America.

As well as this, TNA have stars who have worked numerous matches in Europe, UK, Japan and Mexico and even have a deal with AA which will boost their popularity in those areas. So for me this shows they are a long long way from being as small as ROH (not that ROH is small, but not near TNAs size)

[T_S]

ROH is not Cult they are regional and there is a HUGE gap between large cult (like TNA) and small cult. It is possible to have national tv coverage as a cult company as many have had in the cornellverse data. TNA can still be the number 2 promotion in the world (maybe 3rd) even as a cult company, they can still sign written contracts, etc.

National level companies in the US/Canada by TEW terms are supposed to be able to sell out 10,000 seat arenas on a regular basis which TNA doesn't. All of the arguments from past games that might have justified TNA being National in previous games like written contracts, TV, etc have been changed so that they can still have all of these perks at Cult size. Internet awards don't mean anything quite frankly, from 2004-2008 when ROH was putting on MOTY candidates almost monthly they were heavily praised on the internet, but who knew who Bryan Danielson was in the grand (mainstream) scheme of things?

Everything can be manipulated to fit TNA so that you don't have to artificially inflate their status as a company because if you did, but you fixed their overness values they wouldn't be able to sustain their size which just leads to a bunch of gameplay issues.

In TEW terms being considered "Well Known" is in the 60s in popularity at least, and half of the TNA roster is far from well known. You get to recognizable which is the mid and upper 50s in popularity. Once again if their overness was adjusted to accurately fit real life they simply wouldn't be able to maintain their status as a national company anyways and will inevitably fall to cult.

Edited March 11, 2013 by T_S

[ScottHallLeg-end]

But TNA could potantially sell out 10K arenas now as they have finally left the Impact Zone which was very limiting on them. Consider there UK run, they were drawing huge crowds, ones thay could even rival WWE crowds! They sell out Wmbley everytime. But it would not be right to make them bigger in the UK than USA based solely on that. They are huge and have GLOBAL Tv deals, not just National. And to be honest, TEW blows atendances out of proportion completely. When was the last time you saw R-Pro and CZW getting 2k to their events?

I think you really do have to take the attendance part of it with a pinch of salt

[T_S]

" When was the last time you saw R-Pro and CZW getting 2k to their events?"

Never and if TNA's popularity was adjusted down everyone else would have to be too it's not just a TNA problem. And as I already stated you can still have international TV coverage as long as the requirements are set as such that the company meets them regardless of company size.

[Shawn Michaels]

regarding overness, its based similar to the EWR way, if it was more based on real life then alot would be alot lower than they are

And that is your mistake. This is not EWR, it's TEW 2013. And the diference is big. Those are two completely diferent games, with separate mechanics and you can't base these values in the old ones of EWR. You need to work this values so they can fit this game.

[cpt.charisma]

regarding overness, its based similar to the EWR way, if it was more based on real life then alot would be alot lower than they are

And that is your mistake. This is not EWR, it's TEW 2013. And the diference is big. Those are two completely diferent games, with separate mechanics and you can't base these values in the old ones of EWR. You need to work this values so they can fit this game.

Well feel free to suggest new overness levels

[Shawn Michaels]

Ok. Well, for starters i would put most of the WWE main eventers in the 80's level. Jericho would be 84, Big Show a maximum 82, Alberto Del Rio maybe 81 or 82, Ziggler no more then 80, maximum, CM Punk would be between 90-92, Lesnar between 88-90 and Cena at 95. The Rock would be a 100. Those are a few examples on how to handle them without exagerating the overness. TNA levels would have to be a lot lower as they are at maximum high level cult.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Shawn Michaels

[cpt.charisma]

Ok. Well, for starters i would put most of the WWE in the 80's level. Jericho would be 84, Big Show a maximum 82, Alberto Del Rio maybe 81 or 82, Ziggler no more then 80, maximum, CM Punk would be between 90-92, Lesnar between 88-90 and Cena at 95. The Rock would be a 100. Those are a few examples on how to handle them without exagerating the overness. TNA levels would have to be a lot lower as they are at maximum high level cult.

Is it just wwe and tna that are the problem? U do know this would then make the game possibly harder to play, but if people agree with lowering the overness I could give it a go and test it out to see how it goes