Bill1996

Can't find anything under that name... Looks like a perfect one to remove. -Bill

There have been 33 in for a while, leaving 2 open... Cutting NWA East dropped the total to 32... So, 3 open slots... -Bill

Funny thing is, I just got it again... 2x in 3 days after not seeing it once in 5 1/2 years... Maybe NWA East was the problem... -Bill

Sorry for the off-topic post, but... I have been doing updates every month since 2007 (with the exception of July 2010). That's 66 updates. I start new games constantly to get a look at the data after I have made updates/changes/etc. I just finished removing NWA East from the data and started a new game. I have probably started around 10,000 "new" games since starting updates. This is the first time I have EVER seen this: -Bill

Quick note: I just finished dropping TNA to National (73 Image) and there were no suggestions to change any card positions... Which means all of the overnesses for the card positions for TNA are all fine... No need to adjust any overnesses or card positions. ROH had 2 minor issues, both of which were easily fixed. So, no need for any overhaul there, either. -Bill

That's the plan currently, but not gonna guarantee it'll get done this month. I've adjusted all of the overnessess discussed on the ladder. I have also bumped JCW up to a Regional promotion and dropped ECWA down to a Small promotion, based on suggestions earlier in the month. Dropping TNA to National and ROH to Cult are next on the list. Chances are, that'll be about all of the promotion work I'll do this month, at least as far as adjusting image and sizes is concerned. There have been a lot of changes this month and giving everyone a "fresh look" at where the promotions sit in the August would probably make for better discussion/debate. As I said before, I have some opinions on changes that should be made as well, so I don't want to go overboard in changes, just to have to have another debate on it all next month. -Bill

Just a quick note... This post signifies the cutoff point for the ladder discussion for Overness... So basically, what that means is, for overness, any suggestion made after this post might not be taken into account when figuring out stats. Feel free to continue to discuss if you wish, but know that if the worker(s) you are suggesting changes for were part of the ladder discussion, chances are that those suggestions won't be taken into account... If you're suggesting a change for a worker that wasn't on the ladder, post away... -Bill

Got a link on the age? Only thing I've found is a myspace page and that says his age currently is 24, which is what is in the game: http://www.myspace.com/smbennett -Bill

Wanted to post a couple notes: I've thought about moving him, along with a few others (such as Jonathan Coachman) into staff spots but the thing is, again, we have all needed info on these guys, so they're not hurting anything by being in as workers. We removed 10 workers and 5 staff members last month and I have removed a couple workers this month as well. But, again, if we have all of the info on the worker (or staff member) I don't see a real reason to remove them. From what I understand, the game can hold 30,000 workers... Although I hope it never gets anywhere near that... A couple months ago, I ran a bunch of tests on this. As a cult promotion, Sophie reccomends that you run "at least a large event every month." The problem is, if you're at Cult level and you run PPV's, it's a big hit financially. So, here's how I looked at it: If you're playing as CZW (or another promotion that runs iPPV's... Just using CZW as an example) and you want to run the shows as PPV's, more power to you, you can simply change it ingame. But, if you're not playing as them, the promotion(s) tend to really hurt themselves financially (at least from my experience) by running shows bigger than they realls should be, given their size. WSU is another example of a promotion that runs iPPV's... Problem is, as a Small promotion, they kill themselves pretty quickly running PPV's. Also, keep in mind, the game doesn't take into account for iPPV's. As far as the game is concerned, when you run a PPV, it's the same as if WWE were to run one. He currently has a written deal with ROH... So, if we want to give him the touring commitment, he'll have to be on an open deal to ROH... Doesn't matter to me, but figured I'd let everyone know... He's either gonna have a written deal with no touring commitment, or an open deal with the touring commitment... Can't have both. Finally, just a reminder... Discussion on the Overness ladder closes tonight at Midnight EST... That's about 12 1/2 hours away... -Bill

Like I said, not even going to worry about drops until I get the new overnesses entered into the game. That won't be until Wednesday at the earliest. The only reason I mentioned not dropping Hogan was due to the fact that he's going to be within a few points of 100 and the boost won't push anyone over 100, so he wouldn't be getting the full boost anyway. In reality, though, if we're gonna drop everyone in TNA's overness by 5, it's probably best to drop Hogan's as well, so everything is consistent. Any promotion being dropped from one size to a lower size would have everyone on their roster's overness dropped by 5 as well. The only reason I wouldn't do a drop is if it dropped them out of the overness needed for their card position. I really don't forsee that happening too often, if at all. -Bill

Here's the rub, though... AAA and CMLL are "at war" with each other IRL... So, to be "at war" in the game (as we woud want to do in the name of realism) they'd have to be over that 10 image in National. IMO, they should also be above that 10 image enough that neither of them drop below it too soon after the game starts. Putting AAA at 27 and CMLL at 24 National (in effect, dropping them both 30 points) would allow us to put TNA at 77 national and still have a 50 point gap, to prevent them from being at war with the Mexican companies. 32/29/82 would also be a possibility... Any higher or lower than that probably creates issues pretty early into a new game... -Bill The problem is for what it is I would say TNA and AAA and CMLL are fairly in the same spot in exposure in their nation. The two Mexico promotions and TNA have fairly close attendance. The problems with except for the fact TNA is American and not in a war with AAA/CMLL like they would be in the game. I guess we could have TNA higher (due to the international exposure) but the problem lies with the fact if it is in the 80's you have the level increase and then the overness boost to go with it. I think even 75 could do that. I would put TNA at 70% awareness for a National promotion, AAA and CMLL at 25 and 23. For ROH I would put it at 75 for cult. I would lower DGUSA's exposure to 50 (it is not as big as ROH and I would not put it with in 25 spots of ROH). CHIKARA is fine at 37. After looking at PWG I think 8 cult would be fine. CZW and PWS should both be lowered to Regional I would put CZW at 85 and PWS at 65. Hear, hear. Well, to an extent. We run into the 50 point warring difference issue Bill likes in this case. I think 45 difference would be good enough though as you posit. What about lowering 25 and 23 to 22 and 20 so it's 70/22/20? Would that work for you and Bill? 48 points between TNA and the higher of the 2, and 10 points between the buffer and the lower number. Something around these lines though is perfect. I could also flip Chikara and DGUSA, but it's not something I'd be married to. I am fine with both as CHIKARA does promote more often than DGUSA or EVOLVE. CHIKARA averages having a show on two weekends each month. The reason I suggested the 50 point buffer is because, at 40, they'd be going to "war" pretty much right off the bat. Giving them an extra 10 points ensures that it'll at least take a little while for the Mexican promotions to "catch up" and go to war with TNA. Also, with TNA gaining image (assuming they do) during that time, it should help extend the amount of time it takes to get the Mexican promotions within striking distance. I'm fine with the above numbers. But again, I'm not going to make any sort of changes until the 25th and I get a chance to apply the overness ladder changes. after that's done, I'll run a test and see who all in TNA the change would affect. In order to counter the level increase/overness boost when (and if) TNA goes to Global in the game, we'd likely reduce the entire TNA roster's overness by a set number. If the overness boost is between 3 and 6, I'm thinking dropping all of the overnesses by 5 would be a happy medium. The one exception to the overness drop for TNA would be Hulk Hogan. Reason being, he's gonna probably end up in the high 90's anyway... With the overness boost, he's probably gonna hit 100 and it's not like the boost would put him over the 100 mark. Long story short, Hogan is gonna be close enough to 100 that the boost isn't going to really effect him, regardless. Finally, I can't guarantee that any of ths is gonna get done this month. If I have time after applying the overness changes, we'll try to get it done, but if not, it'll have to wait until the September Update. -Bill

Here's the rub, though... AAA and CMLL are "at war" with each other IRL... So, to be "at war" in the game (as we woud want to do in the name of realism) they'd have to be over that 10 image in National. IMO, they should also be above that 10 image enough that neither of them drop below it too soon after the game starts. Putting AAA at 27 and CMLL at 24 National (in effect, dropping them both 30 points) would allow us to put TNA at 77 national and still have a 50 point gap, to prevent them from being at war with the Mexican companies. 32/29/82 would also be a possibility... Any higher or lower than that probably creates issues pretty early into a new game... -Bill

Has TNA ran shows in Mexico, no. TNA has sent guys to Mexico off and on since 2004. Has TNA done full blown shows in Canada? Plus TNA rarely runs in the western USA and sticks to the south and maybe the north east. Not sure. DGUSA and ROH have done shows in Canada as well though I would NOT see them anymore than cult. ROH does NOT have a national tv deal. They only show the shows on the MyNetworks, CWs and Fox local stations that they own similar to Scripts owning ABC 15 in Phoenix and Gannett owning NBC 12 in Phoenix. There are A LOT of ground in the US ROH does not run. I don't remember many west coast shows. IMO CZW, PWG and PWS should be regional promotions. They rarely run out of the general area they promote in. First off, I don't really consider you voicing your opinions as "arguing." As long as everyoen is respectful (and, for the most part, usually aeveryone on here is) I have no problems with people voicing their opinions. Regarding TNA: Let me ask this... If we'e bumping them down to a National Promotion, what image would you give them? Keep in mind that AAA and CMLL are at 57 and 54 image Nationally. also, keep in mind that anytime two promotions are National or above are within 40 image of each other, they are "at war" with each other in the game. So, that means, to have TNA as a National Promotion, without having them "at war" with AAA and CMLL, you'd have to put TNA at a 98 image on the National level... I don't think anyone would think it's realistic to have TNA be "at war" with the two Mexican promotions, either. Setting TNA at 98 (or higher) on Nation seems really silly, considering that, after 1-2 weeks of gameplay, they'll be right back where they are currently, at 10 Global. alo, keep in mind that 40 is the MINIMUM gap... IMO, the gap should be closer to 50, to prevent the promotions from simply going to war a week or so into a new game. The obvious solution would be to drop the image of AAA and CMLL. But, how far? If we're using a gap of 50, you're gonna have to drop AAA and CMLL down a bit for it to even make sense to put TNA on the National level. Again, there's not much sense in starting TNA out in the mid to high 90's in image. The point is, it's pretty simple to just say "lower TNA to National." But, simply doing that means that other things will need to be adjusted to accomodate for it. I look at EWR as sort of a puzzle, where one piece can and does directly affect other pieces. I'm not against dropping TNA down, nor am I against dropping ROH to Cult, but keep in mind, doing those things will affect other areas of the game. Like I said before, I'm keeping the discussion regarding overnesses open until the 25th. Both TNA and ROH are represented in those overmnesses. Once I make the overness adjustments, I'll run a test and see how dropping TNA to national and dropping ROH to Cult would affect the newly adjusted overnesses. Then, we can go from there. But again, keep in mind, I'm gonna need specifics on where ROH and TNA should be, image-wise, if we're gonna drop them and they'll have to fit into the "puzzle" correctly. Dropping TNA to National will certainly affect AAA and CMLL's image as well. -Bill

Heh, you'd think that, wouldn't you? The problem is, like I said last night... A good majority of the stats discussions that have gone on in this thread are ultimately over less than 5 points... -Bill

If you held a gun to my head and said I had to drop either TNA to National or ROH to Cult, I'd most likley choose dropping ROH to Cult. Even though I personally don't watch TNA too often (I've maybe watched 2 1/2 TNA shows all year) I do feel hat they have done enough to warrant a Global ranking. As stated before, they broadcast in over 120 countries. IMO, whether or not the broadcasts are live or not, the fact is the programming is still available. From what I understand, RAW is actually on tape delay in some parts of Canada and some Mexican stations don't air Smackdown or RAW until Saturday. Add in the Ring Ka King and their tie ins with AAA and IWGP and again, I think they've done enough to warrant a Global ranking. I'm not sure of the actual numbers, but it's quite possible with the whole Ring Ka King thing that TNA actually promotes more shows outside of North America than WWE does. That's not saying TNA is close to challenging WWE... But, keep in mind, TNA only has a 10 image in Global currently. That's the same ranking they'd get when promoted from a National level, which happens pretty quickly in the game anyway. It's not like we're starting TNA at 50 Global or anything. As for ROH, again, IMO, they should have something that separates them from the rest of the Cult promotions, because they are clearly the #3 promotion in the USA. They're currently at 8 image Nationally, which is actually lower than they'd get if you started them out in Cult and were promoted to National. Like TNA, that promotion happens rather quickly, so why not just boost them slightly and avoid the overness boost that thay'd get? Regarding the overness boost: To be honest, I'm not sure what the boost for workers is when you go from Cult to National, or National to Global. My guess would be it would be enough to put each worker on the roster in their correct card position. That means (if I'm correct) that it's not just a boost of X amount for every worker, but a different boost for each worker, pending on what they need to be entrenched in their card position at the next level. Admittedly, if we were sure of what the boost was, we could do as others have suggested and simply compensate for the boost and reduce overnesses. The problem is, if it's not a set number boost for each worker, that could get very tricky. Keep in mind, the reason these promotions were bumped up in the first place was because people were bitching about the overness boost. Now, people seem to be bitching the other way... My guess is, you're not going to please everyone... As I said in an earlier post, I have a few suggestions on promotions that should be changed from where they currently are, but I'm going to hold off until next month, because I have plenty on my plate, update-wise already. But, the majority of my thoughts involve Regional promotions. Most of the Cult, National and Global promotions, I think aren't too bad. Could there be tweaks made on those levels? Probably, but not anything major, at least IMO. -Bill

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_Nonstop_Action_Wrestling I think that's sufficient evidence to prove that TNA is a Global promotion... By comparison, WWE broadcasts in 145 countries. That's only a difference of 25. Besides the overness boost, ROH is a National Promotion in order to separate them some from the other Cult promotions... They currently air shows in Japan and have aired in the UK and Ireland in the past. They have also held shows in Japan and the UK. Add in CM Punk's mention of them in his now infamous "shoot" and their involvement in the movie "The Wrestler" and I think that they qualify to be a National Promotion. Quite honestly, I think a good portion of the promotions that are Global, National and Cult are slotted pretty nicely. There are a couple Regional Promotions that I feel should probably be Small promotions and one Regional promotion that should really start getting some consideration for being bumped up to Cult, but I'll leave that discussion for another time... I've looked at the discussions regarding which workers deserve which stats but it's kind of funny that, when all of the opinions are logged side-to-side, a large portion of the stats discussed, there's not that much difference in opinion. I'd say in about 90% of the discussion, there's less than a 5 point difference of opinions in about 90% of the stats and less than a 10 point difference in 98% of them. So, really, a good part of the debate and discussion has only been over a few points here and there. Granted, there are a couple that are all over the place (like Undertaker's Brawl) but that's where we'll just average the opinions. -Bill

Just a quick note... This post signifies the cutoff point for the ladder discussion for the Brawl, Speed, Tech and Charisma ladders... So basically, what that means is, for those 4 categories (Brawwl, Speed, Tech and Charisma) any suggestion made after this post might not be taken into account when figuring out stats. Feel free to continue to discuss these areas, but know that if the worker(s) you are suggesting changes for in those areas were part of the ladder discussion, chances are that those suggestions won't be taken into account... If you're suggesting stats for a worker that wasn't on the ladder, post away... We'll continue the Overness ladder discussion until Midnight EST on July 25th. That leaves for 5 more days of discussion and gives me 6 days to take all of the suggestions and adjust the overnesses that need adjusting. -Bill

Why yes, yes it does. OK... Why is Chrissy Rivera on there? My guess is, CZW is included in this as well...? What I'm looking for is a complete list of what all promotions' overnesses this entaials... I got WWE, TNA, ROH, DG-EVO, CHI and CZW (I'm guessing). The other 2 "cult" promotions are PWG and PWS... are they included as well or no...? I'm assuming anything below cult level is not included, as well... -Bill My own personal opinnion is PWS should NOT be a cult promotion but if I need to add them in I will. No, no need to add anything... I just need to know which promotions are included on the list is all. -Bill

Want to make a comment, while I have it in mind... I know peole don't like double posting and all that, but keep in mind that I update my notes pretty frequently on here. What that means is, if I see a post and copy it to my notes and then you go back and edit the post, I won't have the edits in my notes. While in most cases, posting "EDIT" in the posts helps, I might not always catch it, or we could be posting at the same time and, as a result, I miss the edit. Just something to keep in mind... -Bill

Why yes, yes it does. OK... Why is Chrissy Rivera on there? My guess is, CZW is included in this as well...? What I'm looking for is a complete list of what all promotions' overnesses this entaials... I got WWE, TNA, ROH, DG-EVO, CHI and CZW (I'm guessing). The other 2 "cult" promotions are PWG and PWS... are they included as well or no...? I'm assuming anything below cult level is not included, as well... -Bill

Add these values of your ladder, Team720. Also, there is a reason for not have wrestlers at 95, 90, 85, 80...? No, he shouldn't add anything... The "ladder" is what is in the game currently... The post you quoted were his opinions. The ladder is so people can see where everyone is currently and better determine who should go up, down, or stay the same. That should help answer your second question... No workers currently have an overness of 95,90,85 or 80... That's why none appear in those spots on the ladder. I have both of the above posts, along with everyone else's suggestion so far, so there's no need to add or repost anything... I'll do that on my end. -Bill

So, this includes WWE, TNA, ROH, DG-EVO and CHI, correct? Just wanting to know what it all entials, so I can edit my pages of notes to consolidate onto a separate page (as I have done with the other ladders) to include any previous discussion in this month's thread regarding overness. That should make the updating easier on my end. -Bill

Maybe I'm missing something... From what I've seen, ladders have already been done for brawl, speed, tech and charisma... Starting a new ladder on something else at this time in the month probably wouldn't make a lot of sense. I said from the get go that I would hold off on adjusting any stats until the 20th. So far, I've done that, although it is pretty tough to sit here and look at 10 pages of notes, a lot of which I can't do anything with, because it's stat related. But, there has to be a time where I have to start working on this stuff, or nothing will get done. That's why I set the 20th as the cutoff date. It still gives me 10 days to actually work on all of these changes that have been debated and suggested. Starting a new ladder to discuss now is going to allow for very little time to let you guys discuss/debate changes, before I have to start actually making changes... Otherwise, the stas in August will all look the sam as they did in July. -Bill I meant the overness issue that was brought up with Dean Ambrose (and less so with NXTers from the indies) over the last few days and you did say that we should go and do that and now you say we shouldn't? I have done work on the WWE, TNA and ROH parts as well as started working on CHIKARA. You mean this?: If you're that far along, though, we can try it, I suppose... I'll just make a mental note to hold off on adjusting any overnesses until the 25th... That gives everyone a week, if you can get the overness ladder out this evening. Brawl, speed, Tech and Charisma, though, I'm gonna start working on on Friday, quite possibly right at midnight... Like I said, there's a lot to do... -Bill

Maybe I'm missing something... From what I've seen, ladders have already been done for brawl, speed, tech and charisma... Starting a new ladder on something else at this time in the month probably wouldn't make a lot of sense. I said from the get go that I would hold off on adjusting any stats until the 20th. So far, I've done that, although it is pretty tough to sit here and look at 10 pages of notes, a lot of which I can't do anything with, because it's stat related. But, there has to be a time where I have to start working on this stuff, or nothing will get done. That's why I set the 20th as the cutoff date. It still gives me 10 days to actually work on all of these changes that have been debated and suggested. Starting a new ladder to discuss now is going to allow for very little time to let you guys discuss/debate changes, before I have to start actually making changes... Otherwise, the stas in August will all look the sam as they did in July. -Bill

To be fair, though, if anyone mentions something and anpther person disagrees with it, I keep note of any argument(s) made and try to find an average of everyone's opinions on the matter. For example, the Anbrose charisma thing... One said 87, another said 89... Guess what? He'll probably get 88, unless other opinions come in within the next couple days. I just found it shocking that currently, we'd be putting Ambrose's charisma over Rhodes, Ziggler and Orton... Regarding Orton, he might not be the best promo guy in the world, but my guess is, if you stuck him and Ambrose in the ring at the same time, Orton would be getting a good majority of the fan reaction. Looking at the definition of charisma: "A personal magic of leadership arousing special popular loyalty or enthusiasm for a public figure." So, while crowd reaction is a big proponet of overness, it also ties into charisma... -Bill