Skummy

True, and there's nothing wrong with stealing riffs in itself, the DIY nature of some music is what makes it great, and that's a large part of it. It's the combination of that with the band, and it's fans', insistence that they're far better and/or more important than they actually are. I don't think Oasis have even had that much of an impact culturally, to be honest. You get a few cunts at karaoke nights pretending to be Liam Gallagher, and that's pretty much the extent of it.

For a commercial band, they are rather unique in sound, really. I did mean for a commercial band. While we're "treated" to songs like Kaiser Chiefs and whatever crap Pete Doherty's peddling - you've got Muse doing songs like Stockholm Syndrome, New Born (and moving away from singles) Microcuts which are completely against what the sound of popular bands is in contemporary times. I love how a lot of Muse's songs are complicated. It's much more innovative and exciting to listen to. Also, yes - most people will listen to Fozzy on the first go because they're fans of Chris Jericho's wrestling. But after the first listen - especially of "All That Remains" - Fozzy become much more than "that band Jericho fronts". If Muse are unique and quirky, so are (or, I should say were) are the likes of the Kaiser Chiefs and Franz Ferdinand, the whole art-rock movement was fairly fresh sounding when it started. And, in my experience, Doherty doesn't get that much airplay, I only hear Babyshambles tracks played anywhere fairly infrequently, and The Libertines are alright. The media haven't really latched on to Doherty's music, more just his image. I don't know, I've just never found Muse to be that original or inventive. They're fairly generic hard rock, it's just that Matt Bellamy's vocals and, to a lesser extent, piano playing make them stand out somewhat. If Stockholm Syndrome was sung by a generic deep-voiced rock singer, it wouldn't be anything special at all. I don't mind Muse at all, just to clarify, I just don't think that they're anywhere near as good as their fans tend to make them out to be. Wonderful live performers, though. As for the Fozzy point, I personally think that "All That Remains" is by far Fozzy's weakest album, and shows just how far downhill Rich Ward has come since the first album, and certainly since the heyday of Stuck Mojo (although "The Duke" solo project is far worse). Fozzy are just a generic metal band, and would never have got anywhere without Jericho, especially when you consider that the first two albums were glorified covers records. The whole Fozzy backstory certainly helped, but without Chris Jericho they wouldn't have got anywhere. That amazes me. Just so you don't feel left out, though, here's some: Oasis are one of, if not the most, over-rated band in the history of British music. Their entire early career was built on shamelessly stealing riffs from T-Rex and The Beatles, and attaching lacklustre nonsensical lyrics to them, and then living off the back of one half-decent album and the shitload of press coverage brought to them by having a complete cunt for a frontman. Anyone who honestly thinks they're anything close to the greatest band in the world, or that they've done anything to remotely change music in any way, shape or form, is simply deluded. Will that do?

I don't think the reason people don't like Muse has anything to do with "image and coolness". It tends to be because they just don't like Matt Bellamy's voice, or they over-complicate songs that could work a lot better if they were simpler, from my experience. And I don't mind them, but claiming that they're "unique and weird" is almost laughable. And I'm still amazed that people think Fozzy would be more popular if it wasn't for the WWE. The only reason Fozzy have got anywhere is off the name value of Chris Jericho. I love them, but it's painfully obvious. As for the Sex Pistols, I used to despise them, but (via Public Image Limited) I've got into them fairly recently, and I think the main problem that people have with them, knowingly or not, is because of Malcolm McLaren, not the band themselves. Although a lot of people resent them because of Sid Vicious, which is understandable.

How the hell did I forget Cemetery Gates? I'm fairly indifferent towards Pantera, on the whole, but I adore that song.

I think the justification there is "The only possible reason not to like this band is ignorance" rather than, "Blink 182 are a bit shit, but I've yet to come to terms with this"

The Beautiful South. I adore them, but it's hardly cool to admit to that.

It depends on the song. If it's just repeating the same thing over and over again, or if it's 20 minutes of guitar solo, chances are I'll get bored of it. If it's well-structured and necessary for the song to be that length, then I'll probably enjoy it. Teenage Riot by Sonic Youth is 7 minutes long, and while not exactly an "epic", it's a good example of a long song that works well. Shine On You Crazy Diamond by Pink Floyd is about 15 minutes long, and absolutely sublime. One of the best post-Syd Barrett Floyd songs there is.

Probably because it wasn't all that good.

I fucking love Pingu. I remember the old PC game, I played it non-stop when I was like 13, and all my friends thought I was mental. I've been meaning to buy the DVD for ages, it's easily the best kid's TV program in history, closely followed by Fun House, Trapdoor and Fairly Odd Parents.

The Pacifier was a comedy? I know, I was attempting to joke about how bad it was. Just to clarify, I didn't laugh at any of the intentional humour.

I laughed at The Pacifier.

A while back I downloaded a song, apparently by Atreyu, called "Don't Laugh". I've seen it listed on a few websites, but this has been bugging me for a while. It doesn't sound anything like Atreyu, it's cheery and with female-vocals, but I love it, so if anyone can tell me anything about the song in question, and whether it's even by Atreyu, and if not, who it is by, that'd be a great help. Thanks! Oh, and some of the lyrics go like this: "He just looked at me, Said to get a life, It's pretty stupid, And I'll tell you why, But don't laugh..."

Shit. I don't even know what to say to this, just....shit. I might try and formulate something moving once I sober up, but for now...shit. R.I.P. Link Wray, I'll miss you, even if the mainstream couldn't give a fuck.

Lying*

Botch did an excellent cover of "Rock Lobster", other than that, they aren't really worth checking out. Praxis are excellent, but in no way similar to Dillinger Escape Plan, same goes for The Mars Volta and Circle Of Dead Children.

The only really good parts of Freddy Got Fingered are Zebras in America and "do you have a problem with my legs?"

I need to see this film.

Ready To Rumble Hawk The Slayer Braindead Pretty much ANYTHING with Sylvester Stallone in it

It's still a decent album, just shite in comparison to the rest of Mr. Bungle's discography. Nothing tops Fantomas' version of The Godfather Theme, though.

Mr. Bungle are fantastic, apart from Disco Volante, which was shite.

Cheers Liam, I'm gonna have to check that out. Everything's better with Mike Patton.

Did they do anything else with Mike Patton, or was it only Come To Daddy?

Anyone who likes Dillinger Escape Plan is a faggot. Seth Putnam said so, it must be true. I'm not overly fond, but I can certainly see the appeal. Their cover of "Come To Daddy" is phenonemal, though.

I know someone who's been an avid gamer for about 15 years and swears blind that this is the greatest game he's ever played, and stayed up until 6.30am this morning playing it, so it must have some appeal.

Considering at least nine of the bands/artists I mentioned are American, your points are fairly invalid. Not to mention that there are plenty of ways for people to access all kinds of music, be it television, radio, the internet, recommendations, magazines, anything. And I didn't tell him to listen The Hives' first albums because The Hives are shit, and I didn't list more European rock bands because that wasn't the question, the question was to name good songs from 2002-2003, and that's what I did. Funny how that works.