Evil Chase K

Maybe so, but it's still a lot different than trading a franchise QB. Especially a franchise QB with two rings. It's a lot easier to find a replacement at WR. I can speak from first-hand knowledge when I say that it's mostly yinzers, old people, bandwagon fans, and "SMASHMOUTH FOOTBALL!" fans that have turned on Ben. The majority of the serious fans that post on message boards, own season tickets, attend Steelers Fantasy Camp, etc. don't want Ben gone. And those same fans who hate Ben now will be sniffing his jock when he leads the team into the playoffs. I'm not saying it's not a big deal. I'm just saying that Ben's presence is directly responsible for Cowher finally getting the "I can't win when it really matters" monkey off his back.

- How do you know you can't? Look at Tom Brady's receivers when he won the Super Bowl. Wide Receiver is a lot easier to contribute early on in a career than QB. - Who would they trade to acquire this veteran, oh football expert. Seriously. Who is out there that they could trade for that would be better than Ben that wouldn't get his ass destroyed behind our O-Line? I didn't realize the goal of every NFL team was to get to the Conference Championship. The goal is to win the Super Bowl, and when you don't do that...you've failed. And what is so hard to understand about what I said? Cowher never won a Super Bowl until Ben. Why? Because he had a QB good enough to win games with his arm, and Cowher rode Ben's arm to the Super Bowl. It's a fact. Um...I posted the quote. From Rooney. From the press conference.

"After imposing an appropriate level of discipline," Rooney said during a press conference this afternoon, "and outlining the steps we feel will be necessary to be successful as a player and a person, we intend to allow Ben the opportunity to prove to us he is the teammate and citizen we all believe he is capable of being. "And we hope the entire Steelers community will allow Ben the opportunity to prove to them that he deserves their trust and their respect." "I have made it clear to Ben that his conduct in this incident did not live up to our standards," Rooney said. "We have made it very clear to Ben that there will be consequences for his actions, and Ben has indicated to us that he is willing to accept those consequences." Read more: http://www.post-gaze...m#ixzz0lKXwb07e They traded Santonio because they weren't convinced he was willing to change and that he was sincere about accepting the consequences. Art clearly doesn't feel the same way about Ben.

You can win a Super Bowl with WRs like that. Can the Steelers win a Super Bowl with Dennis freakin' Dixon or Charlie Batch? I think not. There is no one available who is better than Ben. He's not going to be traded. The fact that anyone actually even thinks this is a possibility is mind boggling. The Steelers aren't stupid. Drafting a QB is not a sure thing. Ben Roethlisberger is a sure thing. Are you serious? Do you read what you type or is it just stream of consciousness. How many SUPER BOWLS did Cowher win before Ben? Zero. Why? Because his run, run, run, punt strategy never worked come playoff time. Worked well in the regular season. Sucked in the playoffs. In the 2005 playoffs everyone was shocked at the Steelers pass-first gameplan. No one was expecting it. Ben came out against Indy and was absolutely fantastic. He carved them apart and lead them to two quick scores. If not for a Jerome Bettis fumble the score isn't even close. The following week Ben did the exact same thing to the Broncos. It can't be a coincidence that the first year the Steelers decide to join the 21st century and actually have a pass-first gameplan in the playoffs they get to the Super Bowl and win it. You acting like Bill Cowher, a coach who is notorious for losing so many AFC Championship games, won a lot of championships is stupid. Oh, and for the record...the year the Steelers lost to the Cowboys in the Super Bowl, they employed a pass-first offense too. Cowher's insistence on running the ball in the playoffs was his downfall. Ask anyone who knows football, and any Steelers fan and they'll tell you the same thing.

Yawn. Do we really wanna go there again? The Steelers got to the Super Bowl that year because they rode Ben's arm offensively. Without Ben, their offensive strategy of run, run, run, punt that failed them all those years prior under Cowher would have failed them again. I would take you up on that bet so bad. The Rooneys might be mad, but they are not stupid. Getting rid of Ben is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard. And no, they wouldn't keep their mouth shut because the only reason they even had that press conference was because of the rumors that they were trading Ben. They said nothing at the press conference to indicate they were going to get rid of Ben. In fact Rooney's quote that was something to the effect of "We are going to give Ben every opportunity to win back his teammates, our staff, and this city," is a pretty strong indicator that they're not going to get rid of him. Plaxico isn't a franchise QB. The Steelers got rid of their problem WR. Ben is a different story. It took them almost 30 years to replace Terry Bradshaw. They won't forsake their future for one incident. They're not stupid. So because he's a public figure it's okay to report one side of the story as if it's a fact? And I never said you or naiwf were defending Stallworth. But I clearly remember people defending his punishment because "the victim's family was okay with it." It might not have been on EWB, but I definitely saw that sentiment.

The cop from Georgia had to resign because he said something in his report about the girls being drunk. He also apparently yelled at the accuser because she wasn't talking. He said that her friends were the one reporting the rape, not the girl. And it pissed him off. As for the Pittsburgh cop, he hasn't lost his job. He's being investigated. But seriously, who are we going to believe...a bunch of drunk girls, or completely sober police officers? I never said that, and I never meant that. What I was saying was that there's evidence that she was indeed consenting to what was going on and that she in fact was seeking out some kind of sexual contact. If she changed her mind and Ben still forced himself on her then he is a scumbag who should not be playing in the NFL. But there is no evidence to suggest that that is what happened here. I don't think Plax should've gotten the time he did. I feel like he was used as an example. Conversely, I remember people here defending Donte Stallworth. I feel like he should not be playing in the NFL. I would be lying if I said I wasn't defending Ben so vehemently because he's a Steeler. If it was someone else I likely would not care enough to defend him. But I think it's clear from reading the police report that the media is only reporting one side of the story and as a result making Ben look worse than he should.

This is the Steelers. Just making the playoffs or having a winning season isn't good enough. I've lived in this city my whole life. When the Steelers lose, no one wants to go to work the next day. The entire city is down. The goal of every NFL team is to win the Super Bowl. 31 teams fail every year. To me, that DOES make a terrible season. Sure the games are entertaining and fun, but in the end anything less than a Championship is not good enough for this fanbase. The Steelers will always be a draw no matter how good or bad they are. But let me tell you, going to the playoffs and losing every year under Cowher got old quick. Ben's got us 2 rings so far and there's a far better chance of him getting us another one before his career is over than him not getting us another one. Especially with the way this franchise is run. Right, he's under investigation, but what did he do wrong? What proof do you have that he acted inappropriately? The testimony of highly intoxicated college girls whose stories contradict each other even though they clearly discussed things before filing their reports? What does her behavior have to do with this? Because there's evidence that she was hitting on Ben, that she went to the bar where Ben was just because he was there. They were hitting on each other and they were having "conversation of a sexual nature" back and forth all night long. She clearly was into Ben at some point. There's evidence that she was consenting at that point. So they go to the bathroom to fool around and she regrets it. Her friends report to the cop that she was raped, and when she's asked she says "No." THAT'S what she has to do with this. Two drunken people making stupid decisions leading to the reputation of one of them being damaged while the other is viewed as an innocent victim? Sorry, but no. You're missing the who damn point. Does she play in the NFL? Is she one the face of one of the premier teams in the biggest sports league in the country? She's not relevant here. The NFL can't do anything about her. The cop is under investigation by the police department and a damn cop should be smarter then letting that situation even develop. This whole "proof" thing that you keep repeating is pretty dumb too. Only thing agreed upon by all involved is that he was in that bathroom with her. That is a stupid move for a guy making millions playing professional sports. He's giving his team a bad name, he's giving his league a bad name. Of course they are going to take a stand. Goodell has made it clear that just avoiding criminal charges isn't enough. What situation did he let develop? He's there to be Ben's bodyguard not his babysitter. Now if she clearly wasn't consenting, then yes, I completely agree he should have stopped it. But the evidence says otherwise. There is no disagreement from me that going into the bathroom with her was a dumb move. Alcohol makes you do dumb shit. Which is why I want to see Ben in the league Substance Abuse program. I believe if you cut out the alcohol you cut out the problems. And I never said the NFL WOULDN'T take a stand. Just that they shouldn't. And that's not even the original argument. The original argument is that trading/cutting Ben is stupid. And I think I proved that point in a previous post. When did I say they wouldn't suspend him? I just said I didn't think they SHOULD. Or that they wouldn't trade him because that's stupid. I also believe I said that this isn't Ben's "second strike." In the eyes of the Rooneys this is his first incident.

Right, he's under investigation, but what did he do wrong? What proof do you have that he acted inappropriately? The testimony of highly intoxicated college girls whose stories contradict each other even though they clearly discussed things before filing their reports? What does her behavior have to do with this? Because there's evidence that she was hitting on Ben, that she went to the bar where Ben was just because he was there. They were hitting on each other and they were having "conversation of a sexual nature" back and forth all night long. She clearly was into Ben at some point. There's evidence that she was consenting at that point. So they go to the bathroom to fool around and she regrets it. Her friends report to the cop that she was raped, and when she's asked she says "No." THAT'S what she has to do with this. Two drunken people making stupid decisions leading to the reputation of one of them being damaged while the other is viewed as an innocent victim? Sorry, but no.

What do you mean by "using a cop?" Also, the use of underage is inaccurate in a sense because she was legal. She was underage when it comes to consuming alcohol, but the police report suggests that she had already been drinking when she had gone out wearing a nametag that read "DTF" which means "Down To Fuck." Yeah, she's a real angel. Maybe try actually looking into some of the details of the case and not just what is being reported by the media and you'll understand my point. In fact read this website: http://ludwig.square...hlisberger.html It conveys my point better than I can. And like I said...he doesn't need to practice with the team to be game-ready. He's missed whole weeks of practice before and been fine in the game. Ben knows the offense better than a rookie, he knows his teammates better than a rookie, and he knows what it takes to play in the NFL better than a rookie. So what did Ben do that was immoral? Have sex in a bathroom? Please. There are a lot of people in this world who are much more important than Ben who have done much, much worse. Ben's guilty of rampant stupidity and drunken debauchery. That's it.

Dude, Plax was a free agent. They didn't "get rid of him." They simply didn't re-sign him because... 1. He wanted more money than what they were willing to pay. 2. He didn't like it here anyway and wanted to move to a bigger market. As for Ben, yes he made some stupid moves. But I don't think the NFL should legislate stupidity or morality. If they did, there would be a LOT of NFL players suspended. - Ben just turned 28. He's in the prime of his career right now. QBs actually do tend to last a little longer than most other positions. As long as they can protect Ben I see no reason why he couldn't play another 7-8 seasons. - Why would he not be game ready? If they prevent him from practicing with the team he'll still be able to watch film and work out and throw on his own time. He would be no more rusty than if he was coming back from an injury or starting the season in week 1. - You don't think you're hurting your season more by trading a 2-time Super Bowl winning QB for a fucking rookie? Really? Trading Ben and drafting a new QB sets the team back a lot longer than Ben being suspended does. - I don't see how you can say a 29 year-old QB is old in an age where two of the best QBs in the league the past few years were closer to 40 than Ben is 30. - Why not make a change now? Because it's fucking stupid.

I see your point, and you're right. But if you're just going by Goodell's track record...he has never suspended someone for Personal Conduct Policy violations who were not previously arrested. I mean, if Goodell wants Ben to enter the NFL Substance Abuse Program that's fine, a one-game suspension and a huge fine, and maybe make Ben do community service or volunteer at a women's shelter or somewhere similar. But to give him a Pacman or Michael Vick-esque suspension when he committed no crime is going overboard, in my opinion. Do you just not see that Roethlisberger's consecutive offseason rape allegations are a big deal, or is it just because he hasn't been arrested that they don't bother you? Stallworth actually killed someone with his vehicle while drunk and that bothered people less than what they've heard about Ben. If you ask the casual fan, or person who doesn't know anything about the NFL, which guy has done more harm to the league's image it's going to come back to the guy who is locked in a podunk town bathroom with an underaged drunk chick. In the immortal words of Andre Agassi, "image is everything". My problem is that when you actually take the time to read the police report you can clearly see that nothing happened. At least nothing illegal. They didn't even have enough evidence to arrest the guy. I realize he didn't exactly put himself into the ideal situation, and it's obvious that Ben is an idiot when he drinks. The first rape allegation was nothing more than a crazy woman's attempt to get money. She bragged about having sex with Ben and then she said she hoped Ben would get her pregnant. She was clearly trying to use the legal system for a money grab. In this issue, the accuser didn't even claim to be raped until the next morning after she and her sorority sisters discussed the incident. There are so many inconsistencies in their story that Ben couldn't even be charged. But the biggest problem I have with this is that none of that stuff is being reported. The media is focusing on nothing but the salacious details that make Ben look bad, but they're not telling the whole story. I understand that a rape allegation is a bad thing, but when you look at the whole story this is not a big deal. This is a drunken idiot having sex with a drunken sorority slut until she regrets it and her friends report it as a rape. Still bad. Not nearly as bad as it's being made out to be. I have no problem with a short-suspension and I do really hope they force Ben into some kind of treatment and/or the NFL Substance Abuse Program because he definitely acts like an idiotic asshole when he drinks. But anyone who actually reads the police report and still thinks this is anywhere near as bad as what Stallworth, Vick, Little, Pacman, or others have done is just fooling himself.

Just fine didn't win any Super Bowls.

I see your point, and you're right. But if you're just going by Goodell's track record...he has never suspended someone for Personal Conduct Policy violations who were not previously arrested. I mean, if Goodell wants Ben to enter the NFL Substance Abuse Program that's fine, a one-game suspension and a huge fine, and maybe make Ben do community service or volunteer at a women's shelter or somewhere similar. But to give him a Pacman or Michael Vick-esque suspension when he committed no crime is going overboard, in my opinion.

I think if he ever was formally charged he'd have no trade value. What team would want to trade for a guy who just got charged with committing a rape/sexual assault? 95% of the teams in the league wouldn't bat an eye with the allegations, but the Steelers do business differently. They jettisoned Plax and Holmes in the past because they pride themselves on having good character guys. It's tough to do that when the face of your organization is constantly putting himself in bad situations. Actually they let Plax go because they didn't wanna pay him money. He had no major legal issues while in Pittsburgh. I think there was maybe a speeding ticket or something but that was it.

The motorcycle incident? Really? We're holding that against him now? That's weak. Art Rooney II also said they were viewing this as Ben's first offense. They are being responsible and SMART about this whole ordeal. A lot more responsible and smarter than all the knee-jerking Steelers fans who want Ben gone. Ben is going nowhere because he didn't do anything. When there isn't even enough evidence to arrest the guy, you can't can him. After all, Ray Lewis was arrested and charged with murder and he received no suspension. If you seriously think the Steelers wouldn't get rid of Big Ben you haven't paid attention to the way the Rooney family does business at all. Their statement this week spoke volumes. They could have left it up to Goodell but they specially came out and said that he's going to have to face the consequences. A "franchise quarterback" who's missing for the first 4 games isn't a "franchise QB" anymore. That is a lot of time for a QB to miss and step back in. Who said he'll be missing for 4 games? I think 4 games for a guy with no prior criminal record who evidently did nothing that could be considered illegal is a bit much. I mean, sure, maybe he'll get 4 games but I think that's being reactionary and that's not Rooney's style.

For your reading pleasure... The Media Lynching Of Ben Roethlisberger Click the link for the rest.

No they aren't. That report is coming from the same guy who reported the Steelers were going to cut Casey Hampton this off-season. Steelers #1 beat reporter Ed Bouchette accidentally started that rumor when he said that if the Steelers WANTED to trade Ben he thought the Rams would be willing to trade 2 first round picks for him. Since then he has debunked that report. He's on his second strike? Are you sure? What was #1? The ridiculously frivolous civil suit where the woman bragged about having sex with Ben and hoping she would become pregnant with his baby? Until I hear from Goodell himself that this was "strike 2" I'm going to assume that Roger, like the Steelers, is viewing this as Ben's first strike. Anything else would be unfair.

That's a technicality.

To date no one else has nearly killed himself riding without a helmet or has had two women allege he's assaulted/raped them. He's done all of that in the span of 4 off seasons. He's brought shame to the shield, so Goodell's going to have to sit him. I really don't think there's a need to bring up his motorcycle accident. He wasn't at fault and it's not against the law to not wear a helmet in PA. Was it a dumb move? In hindsight, yeah. But what 23-24 year-old guys don't do stupid shit? Right, I understand. And you're absolutely right, I was just pointing out that this would set a new precedent.

That attorney came out later in the day and retracted everything he said. He said he had no evidence and that he never should have said anything in the first place. But...to this date, no one has been suspended without an arrest on their record.

And I'm saying you can't put them in Ben's situation and expect the outcome to be the same because of their prior history. If Ben had been arrested before your comparison would make sense. But to say he should be banned immediately is ridiculous because Ben has never been charged with a crime and has never been arrested. I highly doubt he doesn't get punished. If not by Goodell then I think the Rooneys will suspend him, but Goodell will do it for them so he can't appeal it. And again, Ben's decision making is clearly stunted by his consumption of large amounts of alcohol. You don't have to be a doctor to realize Ben needs to lay off the booze. The problem with the Rooneys suspending Ben is that the NFLPA can immediately appeal the move, and the appeal goes to an unbiased outside arbiter. If Goodell suspends Ben, the appeal would go back to the league office where it would be shot down. I think if Ben's suspended it will be by Goodell, who has said he is working with the Rooneys to figure out an appropriate punishment. Then we'll get a statement from Art Rooney saying that the team supports Goodell's decision and that they agree with it 100%. Whatever decision is made, it will be made by Goodell and the Rooneys together.

Um...alcohol had more than just a little to do with Ben's actions that night.

Unfortunately, yes. I'm hoping for Maurkice Pouncey at 1.18 but it would not surprise me if the pick is Tate. Benn might be the pick if he makes it to Round 2. I think Goodell will suspend him for 2 games. I think the Rooneys might just add on an additional 2. Not to start a debate but... - Ben has never been arrested. Vick and Pacman were. - Ben has never been charged. Vick and Pacman were. To compare Ben to those guys is stupid for the reasons stated above. Hell, Donte Stallworth killed a guy and missed a season. Ben hasn't even been arrested. So to say that if he were Vick or Pacman he'd be banned for a whole season is faulty reasoning because if he was one of those guys he would've been arrested and/or charged with something. He hasn't. And also, just to point it out, Ben didn't get off because he's a 2-time Super Bowl Champion. He got off because there wasn't even enough evidence for probable cause and so he couldn't even be arrested. I know you mean "scott (sic) free" as in, no suspension, but I just wanted to clarify things. And if I were Goodell, I'd suspend Ben for the season opener, make him enroll in the league Substance Abuse Program, fine him $1 Million, and send him to counseling.

Wallace is just a speed guy right now. I like his chances to develop into a #1, but until he does the Steelers are hurting. Hines Ward cannot get open anymore unless he's in the slot. Without Holmes, he'll have to play on the outside. Randle El is a decent slot guy, but he's nothing great. Arnaz Battle is okay. If Limas Sweed can finally get his shit together, the Steelers will be fine. Big if though. I'm doing a board-wide mock draft on another board as the Ravens. Jermaine Gresham and Rob Gronkowski would be great picks for them at TE. And there are good CBs to be had in the later rounds. This year's draft is the deepest in years and I would love to see the Steelers trade out of the first round and pick up extra picks in Rounds 2-5.