Selling Out

[fineintent]

This is something I was talking about with some mates, and no one has really answered why the idea of 'selling out' is so bad. The lifestyle of a poor musician, whether a rapper, rock star or whatever, isn't particularly glamourous, so why shouldn't artists want to make the most of, what could be, limited shelf life? This was sort of triggered by comments in the bands that vanished too soon thread, with people mentioning how singers of bands now work in Co-op and the like.

Personally, as I want to be a musician, if someone offers me loads of money to wear a certain clothing brand or drive a certain car, I'm going to do it - you get money and free things. I really don't want to be on top of the world one week, then working in a Supermarket the next. I know some people have this image in their heads of the noble, underground musician - but that's bullshit. In any other profession, people strive for raises and notorioty in their particular field - so what's the problem?

The only issue I'd have would be the idea of having to change your music to appeal more to the masses, which I don't think I could do. Just looking for your thoughts really.

[Malenko]

"The only issue I'd have would be the idea of having to change your music to appeal more to the masses, which I don't think I could do. Just looking for your thoughts really."

That's what selling out is all about. If you need loads of money to survive (you know you don't) and are willing to do whatever your told to without having much say on it, and being forced to play something you don't like just so you would get it, it's up to you really. There are loads of bands not on major labels that get enough recognition through the music they play and like to play, and some of them if they're successful enough and manage their money well get to be rich.

I really don't care if other people do it or not, as everyone as the right to do whatever they want, but i don't know how can they feel better that way than doing what they really like to do.

"I really don't want to be on top of the world one week, then working in a Supermarket the next."

That's exactly what happens to a lot of bands that sellout :thumbsup: Your point there makes no sense. That's the reason why you have so many one hit wonders. They just appear while it's the trend and are sent home when the trend is over.

[Guest Pirate Chasin' Booty]

I've always seen 'selling out' as a bitter term used by pretentious teens about how they are pissed off that they've stopped being unique, because others enjoy the same kind of music.

[fineintent]

"I really don't want to be on top of the world one week, then working in a Supermarket the next."

That's exactly what happens to a lot of bands that sellout  :thumbsup:  Your point there makes no sense. That's the reason why you have so many one hit wonders. They just appear while it's the trend and are sent home when the trend is over.

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[Malenko]

Selling out in its most basic explanation is just selling yourself. A little bit like selling your soul to satan . The idea is, if you "abdicate" of what you like to do just to get more money, you're selling out.

Out of curiosity, most people i see complaining about how a band sold out are in their 30/40's so they aren't exactly bitter teens. bitter middle-aged men at most.

EDIT:

How does that point make no sense? Read the other thread about a band like Fallen To, who were an up and coming UK band, who were dropped and their singer now works in a Supermarket. The music industry is so fickle, that bands can be dropped whenever an executive sees fit - so why shouldn't they want to make as much money in the process? Someone can be a hero today to every music magazine, and forgotten about in a few months, regardless of whether they're a one hit wonder or a genuinely decent band.

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Edited March 17, 2005 by Malenko

[Guest Pirate Chasin' Booty]

I've never heard a 30/40 year old mention it, I wouldn't have thought they would of even known what it meant, music plays a big part in the life of young people, its usually teenage 'rock' fans who discuss/complain about it.

[Malenko]

I've never heard a 30/40 year old mention it, I wouldn't have thought they would of even known what it meant, music plays a big part in the life of young people, its usually teenage 'rock' fans who discuss/complain about it.

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[The Sultan of Swank]

The way I've always looked at is, as long as their still putting out good music, what do I care what lifestyle they liv, or how the manage their money or if they take endorsements.

Edited March 17, 2005 by Basha

[ChrisSteeleAteMyHamster]

I agree 100% with mudda.

I was more gutted about groups I liked but no-one else really knew about becoming big when I was a teenager but the last few years I say good on the groups! They get more money and therefore higher production quality, more coverage on programmes where I can see more of them and hear them live more often and there are more of their albums available for sale at a cheaper price.

For example, back in '99 I saw Muse live so immediately bought "Showbiz". I had to go to four large stores to track down the one copy they had and paid £15 for it.

A few months later the album is re-released as "Sunburn" makes the charts and there's hundreds of albums at £9.99. That can only be a good thing surely.

If you really like a group you should want the best for them and not the best for you as a selfish fan wanting to keep the music to yourself as the only way you can feel unique.

When I found out about The Bravery I told everyone I knew about them and now they're huge over here, BRILLIANT!

The only time it's really been an issue for me was watching Feeder perform for the second time.

The first time was in '99 when no-one really knew about them outside of the 'inner' fans and the atmosphere at the gig was fantastic.

The second time was after Buck Rogers was released and they had to drop the age limit to 14 instead of 18 and loads of teen girls were at the front screaming their love to Grant (the lead singer). Which was weird.

Still, fair play to them.

Music is for all, and I love being able to discuss the music I like with a lot of people.

If a group is really true to themselves and the music they make then they won't change.

If they're in it solely for the money and change their music style away from what you like then shake them by the proverbial hand and go find yourself a new group.

[Malenko]

If you really like a group you should want the best for them and not the best for you as a selfish fan wanting to keep the music to yourself as the only way you can feel unique.

When I found out about The Bravery I told everyone I knew about them and now they're huge over here, BRILLIANT!

The only time it's really been an issue for me was watching Feeder perform for the second time.

The first time was in '99 when no-one really knew about them outside of the 'inner' fans and the atmosphere at the gig was fantastic.

The second time was after Buck Rogers was released and they had to drop the age limit to 14 instead of 18 and loads of teen girls were at the front screaming their love to Grant (the lead singer). Which was weird.

Still, fair play to them.

Music is for all, and I love being able to discuss the music I like with a lot of people.

If a group is really true to themselves and the music they make then they won't change.

If they're in it solely for the money and change their music style away from what you like then shake them by the proverbial hand and go find yourself a new group.

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[RPS]

Finding success is fine for me. I don't have a problem personally with a band signing to a major record label to promote themselves. Le Tigre did it and I still love them.

But I think being dishonest isn't appreciated. If a band goes and lies to their fans, I think is where I'd be a little more angered.

[Guest Bluesman]

This is something I was talking about with some mates, and no one has really answered why the idea of 'selling out' is so bad. The lifestyle of a poor musician, whether a rapper, rock star or whatever, isn't particularly glamourous, so why shouldn't artists want to make the most of, what could be, limited shelf life?

[Guest 12characters]

This is something I was talking about with some mates, and no one has really answered why the idea of 'selling out' is so bad. The lifestyle of a poor musician, whether a rapper, rock star or whatever, isn't particularly glamourous, so why shouldn't artists want to make the most of, what could be, limited shelf life?

Well, first there is the idea that your making music not to make money. Secondly, you're often times changing the dynamics of the band and the music specifically to sell and to make money. Aside from the problems on it's face, you have any inherent conflicts should you have any part of a genre that isn't terribly popular to begin with, like say blues . You also now are looking at music in almost strictly business terms, which is a problem because music is one of those things (like say, journalism) in which making money often conflicts with the goals and processes needed to to stay true to the craft.

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[tristy]

I wonder why I think you'd be singing a different tune (pun intended) if you were to be signed to, say, Universal or Warner Bros.?

[Guest 12characters]

I wonder why I think you'd be singing a different tune (pun intended) if you were to be signed to, say, Universal or Warner Bros.?

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[tristy]

Rock stars can get away with anything.

[RPS]

The best kind of music, in my opinion, is the kind me and my friends play in the basement at someone's house.

Lots and lots and lots of fun, playing and watching.

[TOG]

My question is, who are you and I to say the band are changing sound strictly to be mainstream and going against what "they stand for" to make money?

Not that I wouldn't in their position anyway, but I am pretty sure most bands don't make music they're unhappy with for financial gain. They may change to adapt more to the mainstream, but if they still like what they are making, how are they selling out?

[RPS]

When a band like Rancid says they will never leave Epitaph labels for a major record label... and than they do, is clearly selling out.

[Summers]

STOP DEBATING.

CONFORM, CONFORM, CONFORM.

Edited March 19, 2005 by Summers