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Spiderman 2: Two Thumbs way up


Laice07
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*MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS*

From Ebert and Roeper:

Here's the transcript if any of you are interested (courtesy of cincy74 from spidermanhype) ...

Roeper: I thought Spider-Man 2 was faster, funnier and more entertaining than the original. Tobey Maguire is back as the nerdy Peter Parker and his webhead alter ego, of course. And Kirsten Dunst returns as Mary Jane who divides her time between acting, modeling, and screaming for help as she clings from one ledge or another. But they do get a little quiet time.

Alfred Molina is a tremendous actor, but he's saddled with a very silly villain, Dr. Octopus, who's half scientist/half mechanical monster. Spidey and Doc Ock are kind of like the comic book versions of Ali and Frasier. They square off a number of times in increasingly epic battles.

Spider-Man 2 isn't just Spidey versus a monster. It's about Peter Parker's inner demons. He wants to do the right thing, but he might throw away that super hero title in order to get the girl. Director Sam Raimi is a master of pacing. We get all these great action sequences but we also get a number of character-driven scenes. And there's a dozen of inside jokes, to boot. Big thumbs up for me.

Ebert: Big thums up for me, too. I was amazed by how good Spider-Man 2 was. It tells a real story and it's not just a special effects extravaganza. Peter Parker's troubled romance with Mary Jane is handled so well, it actually reflects and generates real emotions.

Roeper: Mmm-Hmm.

Ebert: You can't say that about Superman and Lois Lane. (Roeper laughs)

The screenplay moves effortlessly between quiet dialogue and big action as when Mary Jane thinks if she kisses Peter, she may discover his secret identity.

In the first movie, I was too accutely aware of the computer generated effects which made Spider-Man seem like an animated character visiting the real world. Again, this time his action scenes are all special effects, of course, but they look more convincing and are seamlessly intercut with the real Tobey Maguire. Spider-Man 2 is so good, it ranks with the original Superman from 1978. It is better than any of the Batman's- WAY better. The screenplay by Alvin Sargent actually seems to believe in the psychological complexities of the stories, instead of stringing a series of dumb action scenes. The movie captures the genius of those early, classic Marvel comics which broke the tradition and gave us heroes who were flawed, and insecure, and who could hardly make a living. Tobey Maguire makes a surprisingly plausible Peter Parker, and Kirsten Dunst is not just a disposable, vulnerable girl, but a woman with real emotions. Plus, the action ROCKS! This may be the best superhero movie I've ever seen.

Roeper: Wow! High praise! But I'm with you on it. I mean they do just a wonderful job with every facet of this: the special effects, the action stuff... And you know, the thing about Spider-Man is, as a creation- as you said, he's a Marvel comics creation- Spider-Man ranks right up there with Superman and Batman. I mean, I think part of the problem with some of these movies like Van Helsing and even the X-Men movies is, the characters just aren't as interesting. They aren't as human as someone like Spider-Man, if you will. And I love the stuff in the newspaper, too: The uh, the editor who's always screaming at this Peter Parker kid. You make a great point too, Roger, about how he has no money. He's in this horrible apartment and he's always getting fired because he's late all the time because he's saving the world. All of that is done in great style, great energy, great humor.

Ebert: It is such a surprise because I gave thumbs down to the original Spider-Man and, uh, I walked into this one thinking, "Well, I wonder wat they've done this time." And I was just blown away. And the wat that the screenplay and the direction balance...as you pointed out, the personal stories and the action scenes. The one thing that I would disagree with you is: I think the villain is terrific. I like Doctor Ock. And I like the fact they were able to give those tentacles personalities. They kind of look and react and threaten.

Roeper: He's ok. He's ok. The Green Goblin was just a little scarier. I like to have a little menace in my superhero villains. But, uh, that's a minor quibble in a terrific film.

June 30th cannot come soon enough!!

Edited by Laice_
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This is going to break the mold of sequels to big Hollywood summer blockbusters being horrible.

I heard that they might be planning up to even a 4th Spider-Man before all is said and done (Of course whichever one has Venom will be the last one, and rumors indicate it won't be the 3rd one he's in).

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In the trailer did anyone notice the lizard(in human form, he has the missing hand), I did, and I heard he's in a scene with Doc Ock, which I think stes up The Lizard being in the third one. Sam Raimi has also been setting up Harry Osbourne becoming the Green/Hob Goblin. I also heard they were going up to six movies.

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This is going to break the mold of sequels to big Hollywood summer blockbusters being horrible.

I heard that they might be planning up to even a 4th Spider-Man before all is said and done (Of course whichever one has Venom will be the last one, and rumors indicate it won't be the 3rd one he's in).

They already signed to make 6 Spiderman movies. I heard the villian in the third will be Green Goblin (wasn't he in the first?).

About Venom..they'd need to introduce the alien symbiote and they can't do it all in one movie without changing too much of the origin.

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They already signed to make 6 Spiderman movies. I heard the villian in the third will be Green Goblin (wasn't he in the first?).

About Venom..they'd need to introduce the alien symbiote and they can't do it all in one movie without changing too much of the origin.

If it's the Green Goblin, then it'll be Harry, unless they want to do the clone saga on film to get Norman back :shifty:

But I think it'll be the Lizard. After all, the Lizard was on this movie originally until they realized two big name villains in one movie would be too much to handle.

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This is going to break the mold of sequels to big Hollywood summer blockbusters being horrible.

I heard that they might be planning up to even a 4th Spider-Man before all is said and done (Of course whichever one has Venom will be the last one, and rumors indicate it won't be the 3rd one he's in).

Spider-Man has always been considered to be a franchise and not a trilogy so if it keeps making money they will keep making them.

Also I feel everything about this film is better. The story seems better, the villian is better, I like the soundtrack better. I think overall this will be better then the first but it will be hard for it to break it's own box office records

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Why would Venom need to be the final villian? Theres plenty more stuff to be going on with, and the Venom storyline happened, pretty early in the Spiderman comics, IIRC. I don't like the idea of having six films signed up already, they don't wanna burn out half way through.

Tristy, yes Green Goblin was in the first, but for the third I guess they're setting up for his son to take over.

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If it's the Green Goblin, then it'll be Harry, unless they want to do the clone saga on film to get Norman back  :shifty:

But I think it'll be the Lizard. After all, the Lizard was on this movie originally until they realized two big name villains in one movie would be too much to handle.

since this once focuses on Harry getting Doc Ock to capture Spidy/Peter sorta, I think he'll go out for revenge in the next one. IIRC, Lizard-Dude doesn't play that big of a role in the Spidey universe. I'm wrong, probably, but oh well.

I think Venom will be introduced at the last of the third one, and the fourth will be Venom Vs. Spidey.

When the fuck does Carnage get introduced, damnit.

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I heard there's a big cliff hanger at the end, I heard from another forum, so this is pure speculation, but it is major spoilers:

Jamesons son is an Astornaut in the movie, and he goes to the moon and finds a black rock, brings is back to Earth and it is rumoured to be the Symbiote of Venom.

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I heard there's a big cliff hanger at the end, I heard from another forum, so this is pure speculation, but it is major spoilers:

Jamesons son is an Astornaut in the movie, and he goes to the moon and finds a black rock, brings is back to Earth and it is rumoured to be the Symbiote of Venom.

If that is true, it seems like they'll go the direction of the cartoon, right? Black rock, space shuttle, etc? Or am I confusing with something else?

EDIT:

Well thats how it goes in the comics, so if they were bringing in Venom, thats how they would do it.

Actually, in the comics Spidey got the symbiote in an alien planet created by Beyonder when he was recruited for the Secret Wars, but does it really matter? :P

Edited by Y2Johnny
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***SPOILERS FOR SPIDERMAN 2 & POTENTIAL SPOILERS FOR SPIDERMAN 3!!!***

SPIDERMAN 2 ENDING/POTENTIAL SPIDEY 3 VILLIAN

OK... here goes: "The graphic novel for Spiderman 2 is in stores. Not able to help myself, I flipped to the back of the book to see if the ending I had envisioned to happen was true, and low and behold, it was. Before Peter Parker and Mary Jane finish up there story, we get a scene with Harry going mental in his fathers office with the Peter Parker/Spiderman problem. He ends up tossing a brandy glass into the same mirror Norman was looking into in the first movie, shatters it, and finds his fathers goblin outfit, the glider, and some weaponry. He also hears his fathers voice speak to him in his head, telling to get revenge for his death. I believe the seen ends with Harry picking up the mask and starting too laugh "an all to familiar laugh". Thus with this setup, even if they go ahead with the John Jameson/Vemon story, chances are you will see Harry Osborne donning the suit, becoming either the Green or Hobgoblin in the third movie" Thanks to a Darkhorizons scooper!

May 18, 2004: AICN has landed a scoop about the third "Spider-Man" movie currently in development at Sony. Rumours emerged a few days ago that the hunter Kraven and The Chameleon would be the villains, this report not only refutes that but mentions the name of the villain most fans have been clamoring to see in a third film - be warned as there are MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD for the second film in this:

POTENTIAL SPIDERMAN 3 VILLIAN?

"I worked at Sony while they were putting together the script for #2 and fleshing out the basic story for #3 and I tell you, the last guy who left that stupid stuff about Kraven and The Chameleon was totally wrong. Spider Man 2 will leave off with a bit of a cliffhanger which will lead to #3, which will be friggin' AWESOME! Trust me, the villain WILL be VENOM. As you will see in #2 Mary Jane will marry J.J. Jameson's son who is an astronaut and planning to go up into space. This will pull Mary Jane away from Peter and in Peter's eyes keep her "safe". Well hold on, while in space J.J. Jameson's son will be infected by some weird alien organism. The alien will travel back to earth with him and J.J. Jameson's son will either become VENOM or Peter will be infected with VENOM and go on a rampage. Either way Spider Man will have to KILL J.J. Jameson's son/Mary Jane's husband in the end, which will bring Peter and Mary-Jane back together again. That's what I read as the summary of Spider Man #3, as you know they can change it, but from what I read, it will be Friggin' BAD ASS!!! You will be blown away, Sam really is the man when it comes to directing these things" . Thanks to DarkHorizons.com and Aint-it-Cool-News.

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Guest TheKarnivalShow

I can't wait for this movie. I loved the original Spiderman and with the reviews this one is getting it looks like it is even better.

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That kinda sucks. In my opinion, one of the most entertaining things about Venom was Eddie Brock trying to be a good guy, whilst taking his anger out on Spiderman. Dunno if it'll be the same having someone else be Venom.

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They gotta have Brock as Venom. I really don't like the idea of John Jameson as Venom.

BTW I still haven't seen the first Spiderman (I thought it looked pretty crap) but the 2nd one sounds awesome so I'll have to watch it soon.

EDIT: to answer tristy's question I think carnage was split from the venom symbiote.

Edited by cthemason
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The Carnage symbiote wasn't split from the symbiote per se, it was a spawn of the symbiote. IIRC, the explanation they gave for his enormous powers was that it was conceived in an alien world (Earth) and its atmosphere made it more powerful than Venom. Carnage was badass, but nowhere near as cool as Venom. Am I the only one to find dumb the way they got rid of him? Oh well...

And cn650, I did notice that. Loved the detail.

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Wasn't Carnage created when Eddie Brock sprung from jail, with the symbiote? I'm sure I saw something, be it cartoon or comic, where Venom (as Brock) escaped from prison, ripped himself on a broken bar, which Cletus Kasady touched, thus forming Carnage.

For the record, Carnage pwns Venom.

Edited by Kaneanite
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Wasn't Carnage created when Eddie Brock sprung from jail, with the symbiote?  I'm sure I saw something, be it cartoon or comic, where Venom (as Brock) escaped from prison, ripped himself on a broken bar, which Cletus Kasady touched, thus forming Carnage.

In the comics, Brock and Kasady were inmates in Ryker Island. The symbiote freed (sp?) Brock, in the meanwhile leaving its spawn (that little piece of symbiote that Kasady touched) dripping in the bar. But Carnage's symbiote is not a piece of Venom's symbiote, it's like its son, its spawn.

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