The Comic Book Thread (spoilers)

[Benji]

Finally finished Y: The Last Man (spent six months trying to get a place selling the last two books in stock)... best series ever, I mean, I've said it since the beginning, but that ending was amazing, no twists, no shock tactics (beyond the obvious), it was just... perfect. I'm not even sad I've finished it, I'm happy because that ending was so precisely planned, you can see where in the story Vaghan explained where people would end up, but it's not tied up in such a way that it's "hapilly ever after".

[Timmoru Suzuki]

I too finally finished Y last week after DFF lent me the trades over a year ago. I didn't like it as much as you seem too, I "only" thought it was good throughout (bar the odd bit) and some parts irritated me. However, I totally agree about the last issue. THAT was how you end an epic comic book series like Y. I'd go on, but you summed it up greatly.

I've just started to read Powers on the basis of a friend rambling on about how good it was. I'm two volumes in. Volume One (Who killed Retro Girl?) was fine, enough to make me buy Volume 2 (Roleplay) which was better and I've ordered V.3 off Amazon. Apparently it starts off OK and gets progressively better, which has been my experience from the first two volumes so I have high hopes.

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

ZOMG ARCHIE PROPOSED TO VERONICA

[the machine]

The Clone Saga. The Spider-Man storyline everybody seems to hate. Well, personally, I didn't, but everybody besides me certainly seem to. I've been re-reading a lot of the Clone Saga comics during the past few days and I suddenly came up with something I simply have to share with you. What if Norman Osborn had returned a lot sooner and what if it had been Norman who had reveal that Ben is, in fact the one, true Peter Parker?

Now in retrospect, this is something I would have liked to see.. May gets sick and the long lost clone Ben Reilly returns to New York. Everything until the Smoke and Mirrors storyline will happen the way it happened in the comic books. But during the Smoke and Mirrors storyline, Jackal will hint that he is actually working for someone else, but manages to escape before the two Spider-Men are able to find out who his employer is. Also, there will be no 3rd Peter Parker. Two Peter Parkers and Kaine are enough. The Death of Aunt May will also remain untouched, as Amazing #400 was breath taking in so many ways. Ben, believing himself to be the clone, does not get the chance to be at his aunt's side when she passes away. This is robbed from him. After May's funeral, Peter is arrested for a murder committed by the first Peter Parker clone, Kaine. Now, instead of switching places with Peter, Ben promises to clear Peter's name, as well as his own, since Peter was convinced that Ben was the one responsible for the murder. Now, the fact that Peter and Ben never switch places gives the readers a good chance to get to know Ben and the writers can give some more personality to him. In the end, Ben makes Kaine admit to the crimes, as he never wanted Peter to end up in jail (Kaine loved Peter like a brother, remember?) So, Peter is out of prison thanks to Ben and the two "brothers" now start to develop something of a friendship.

This is where, instead of the whole Maximum Clonage clusterfuck, the two Spiders would go after the Jackal and his "employer". In the final chapter of the "Revelations" storyline (which would occur a lot sooner than it did in the real saga) Peter and Ben would be blindsided by the mysterious shadowman behind the clone mess. Later, Ben wakes up at the bridge where Gwen Stacy died wearing the original Spider-Man costume and is confronted by the original Green Goblin, Norman Osborn. Osborn would explain how he is still alive and how he orchestrated the clone saga, robbing Peter five years of his life and that Ben is, indeed, the original Peter Parker. Now, storyline wise, it would be effective to just kill off the clone Peter here, but realistically thinking, it would never be accepted by long-time readers so we keep Peter alive. But Norman does explain that the clone can't help Ben here, as the clone's spider powers are now gone. So, it's just Ben and the Goblin. Just like it was in Amazing Spider-Man #122.

Also, Norman would still have a reason to kill MJ's baby, since it was the clone Peter who, in Norman's eyes, killed Harry. So, he has a reason to hate both of them. Sure, there were a lot of folks who would never accept Ben Reilly as the real Spider-Man, but I'm one of those who really liked him. This kind of speculation is pointless, since the story has been buried a long time ago, but I thought I'd share my thoughts.

I loved Ben Reilly Spider-Man, as Peter Parker at that point had pretty much become a loser who went around with an inner monologue of "I am the Spider." But I guess my biggest problem with the whole deal, and even with your attempt to fix it, is why on earth does anyone care about Norman Osborn? His death was one of the only great Green Goblin stories, and had led to better characters like the Hobgoblin and Harry Osborn as the Green Goblin, not to mention setting up one of the most iconic moments in comics with Gwen Stacy's death. Bringing him back cheapened that and relied on a whole lot of nonsensical garbage (the Goblin Files one shot) to explain just why the guy sat on the sidelines for years, watching his son go insane, reform, and die, while he was living it up in Europe.

So they brought Norman back to try to make him a new nemesis for Spidey, and almost immediately they realized nobody liked writing the character and they had nothing for him to do. Just one tremendous deus ex machina to try to end the clone saga.

As much as I don't like Dark Avengers, getting Norman away from Spider-Man has been the first time he's been interesting since he came back to life. Making him head of SHIELD and letting Bendis write his dialogue is moronic, but at least it's different.

[Gabriel]

I really like New Avengers... I sold my old physical books, but I've been re-reading the stories again by other means. I'm at #21 now.

One thing I have noticed though, is Bendis is just weird. You've got kids who look like they're 10, talking like 18 year-olds. At first, I thought they were midgets, until I realized they had backpacks and Luke Cage told them to go to school.

[RoyWill Rumble]

Too bad that with

Spoiler: Click here to view

The American Son arc, Norman's involved with Spidey again.

[Avenged Probably]

Some random thoughts revolving around the Marvel U at the minute;

I recently decided to give Amazing Spider-Man another try. I was not disappointed. The Fantastic Four story was brilliant, 24/7 was good too.. not as good, but still fun. American Son is shaping up to be wonderful thus far, hopefully it'll end a well as it's started.

Dark Avengers is really fun, and its pretty much the epicenter of all things Dark Reign. Its Bendis at his best again just like when New Avengers started a few years back (maybe not quite that good) and its clear to me that Bendis is at his best when he's kicking off something new and exciting.

War of Kings is possibly the best thing happening right now, both from a story and art perspective. I haven't followed much of the Space stuff before this, but its plenty easy to get into. The only tie in I'm reading is Ascension, which is also a fine read.

Quite a few things I am looking forward too in coming months too; the Dark Avengers/Uncanny X-Men crossover Utopia, The Sinister Spider-Man, the fact that Wolverine Origins is finally seeing Logan come face to face with Romulus after what seems an eternity and pretty much all things going on in the Avengers and X related titles.

Oh and Wolverine: Weapon X seems like its going to be an awesome book too.

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

Ugh, Bendis.

I have never liked anything that man has done.

Also, anyone read Wolverine: Old Man Logan? Think it's just a special issue of the monthly series, but I flipped through it the other day and was intrigued.

[Avenged Probably]

I read the first few issues of it (its 8 long I think) but then missed one or two, so rather than being confused I decided to wait for the trade. What I had read was really good though, and as you say - a very intriguing concept.

[Johnny Latino Heat]

Old Man Logan's still not over though, they're still going to release a "Wolverine Old Man Logan Giant-Sized Special". Loved the story, hope the conclusion won't fall short.

[the machine]

Dark Avengers is really fun, and its pretty much the epicenter of all things Dark Reign. Its Bendis at his best again just like when New Avengers started a few years back (maybe not quite that good) and its clear to me that Bendis is at his best when he's kicking off something new and exciting.

Oof, you're really killing that book with faint praise. Almost as good as the beginning of New Avengers means it's just a shade below "mediocre." I mean, Bendis was obviously selling the first issue and phoning in the trade even back then. What "classic" New Avengers stories are there, anyway? The Collective? The Sentry arc? Breakout? I miss the days when New Avengers had great artwork, but those stories were average at best.

Ugh, Bendis.

I have never liked anything that man has done.

But, but... who could forget his run as with Chuck Austen on Elektra??

Seriously though, his Maleev run with Daredevil is very good, as Bendis sticks to what he knows (crime drama) and makes DD a larger than life figure that rarely appears, so it's a big deal when he does.

I also enjoyed Alias, since it was his own creation (though obviously he wanted Jessica Drew) and felt his dialogue and characterization worked better for a self-professed non-hero like Jones.

But Bendis writes superheroes like he's afraid of the genre: like someone will call him a dorkface if he doesn't give Dr. Strange dialogue about checking hockey scores. His attempts at superhero dialogue are atrocious, and the guy STILL can't lay out an interesting fight.

I liked his stuff well enough 5 years ago, but as a writer he has not developed at all since Marvel hired him.

[Timmoru Suzuki]

I generally like Bendis, but do find the occasional shift towards quantity over quality in terms of his writing. I do like Powers so far, but he created that himself. I enjoyed the early New Avengers trades. They weren't classics but any stretch but I did find them to be an anjoyable team book. I enjoyed House of M and reasonably so Secret Invasion and really enjoyed Ultimate Origins. There are things I haven't enjoyed, such as his work on Ultimate X-Men, and to be honest what bits of his Daredevil run I've read I wasn't impressed with, and some of his Marvel one-shot comics have been a bit iffy.

Anyway, Issue One of X-Men Forever came out. As I suspected, I loved and hated it. Claremont really hasn't changed his writing style at all, so there's plenty of cliched dialogue and needless thought bubbles and captions. I get the impression that a best of both worlds with Claremont would be for him to plan out the storylines because there is no doubting he has some excellent ideas and does plot very well but then leave the actual writing for someone else because his dialogue is weak, his characterisation is terrible (especially in this) and the sheer amount of needless thought-bubbles is incredibly annoying. Thought-bubbles in comics should be needless anyway, but that's a rant for another time. But seriously, he over-used them to high-heaven in this issue, often using them to say in words what the reader can already bloody see in the art. Also, re-naming Gambit to Remy Picard is just nob-ish. I didn't like how they blew though what could be a major villian in one issue, but it did offer a nice alternative to today's "Six Issue arcs~!!!" story-style.

But I did love the art. Not because it's amazing, but because everyone was drawn like they were in the X-Men cartoon series, which is brilliance, and as I mentioned I've found Claremont to be a good ideas man and a good plotter and he does do a fine job of setting up little bits of story anf intrigue for later issues and the actual plot of this first issue was good.

[GRIFT]

I just finished his recent run on Uncanny and that is pretty much exactly how I feel about Claremont.

[Benji]

Claremont is very hit and miss, if you want good Claremont (and probably my favourite use of Gambit - a pretty significant thing considering my love for the character), read X-Men: The End if you haven't already, some people argue it tries to "end too much", but I find it's perfectly spread out and it's one of those books where you notice more things with each re-read.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Mr Benji~!

[GRIFT]

Ah, yes. I just read The End not that long ago and I will say that I loved Gambit's story. Hell, I kind of hope

Spoiler: Click here to view

that Gambit being Sinister's clone works its way into official continuity (feel free to yell at me if it has).

But didn't Byrne do most of the plot work on that?

I think that my main problem with most of Claremont's recent work is that his writing style is so anachronistic . He is simply using the same storytelling techniques he used in the 70's and while I respect his original tenure with the X-Men, he has been more miss than hit since he gave up the reigns in '91.

Edited June 12, 2009 by GRIFT

[Benji]

Just read Volume 4 of The Walking Dead - big dissapointment. In one volume it's gone from intruiging and subtle with explosive moments to pure shock value every other page, hopefully it's just a one-off poor volume.

[Hutch2004]

Not really. You've hit "the slump". Quality definately dips at around that point, and doesn't come back up again for a couple of books. However, the most recent ones have been awesome, with some great storyline twists. I'd advise you to hang in there, but the next couple aren't that great.

[Avenged Probably]

I found a gem in Captain Britain and MI13. I picked up the first trade a bit ago but for some reason never read it until this weekend.

Its a great mix of action, humor and all round good storytelling. All the characters are very distinct, in the way wall they all bring something different to the book's cast. I like the mix of British heroes like Cap and Spitfire, and a few under utilized guys like Black Knight. Wisdom's always been random to me, sometimes (most of the time) I've hated his character, and others I loved him. In this book I'm certainly going to love him. Add all the magic stuff, vampires and the fact that its British based... I can't help but love this.

I just the other day ordered the second volume, so hopefully It won't disappoint.

[Johnny Latino Heat]

I found a gem in Captain Britain and MI13. I picked up the first trade a bit ago but for some reason never read it until this weekend.

Its a great mix of action, humor and all round good storytelling. All the characters are very distinct, in the way wall they all bring something different to the book's cast. I like the mix of British heroes like Cap and Spitfire, and a few under utilized guys like Black Knight. Wisdom's always been random to me, sometimes (most of the time) I've hated his character, and others I loved him. In this book I'm certainly going to love him. Add all the magic stuff, vampires and the fact that its British based... I can't help but love this.

I just the other day ordered the second volume, so hopefully It won't disappoint.

In that case, I've got some bad news for you... It's been cancelled and the last issue will be #15. Sucks, because I too liked the book.

Source

[Avenged Probably]

Awwww crap.

On another non related note, I've been fancying getting into some mainstream DC stuff as of late. I have no idea where to start though. I last read DC stuff, must be tens years ago when they had the red and blue superman versions walking around at the same time. I read a bit of Flash and Green Lantern from the same time, but as you can imagine I don't remember a great deal. Oh and I randomly have a JLA graphic novel called 'American Dreams' (this one http://www.amazon.co.uk/Justice-League-Ame...8060&sr=8-8)

What current books are worth reading? And what stuff, like trades, is worth reading or for that matter essential reading?