Michael richards goes on a racial tirade during stand up act

[TGC]

Either oldskool is fat, or someone he cares for a lot is, but either way the comparisons you are making are apples and oranges. I am slightly overweight, have been for a long time, and yet being called fat is nowhere near the same thing as me calling a black man a nigger. It's just not, and you fucking know it.

[NobBe Nobbs]

I find it sad that it's gone this long without someone pointing out that a black comedian doing the same thing to white people in the audience and using words like "cracker" and "honkey" would have barely got a raised eyebrow from anyone outside the place. And don't give me that bollocks about cracker not being as offensive as nigger, black people use cracker in the same way white people used to use nigger - as a insult regarding race.

[Skummy]

Oldskool, I like you, but you're being a fucking moron. The reason there are so many black affirmative action groups is that America is still very much a segregated society, whether they like it or not. Because of the history of the black man in the United States living a lower-class lifestyle, the majority of them are still living that. It's not something you can change overnight, especially when people in a position of power bring out arguments anything like the ones you've been using.

The unemployment rates, higher crime rates etc. have far more to do with the fact that the majority of black people in America are socially excluded, and because of the institutional racism rife in that country, meaning that for the most part they don't have access to good education or a good lifestyle. Poor white people commit crime too, it's not a race issue.

You say fat isn't the same as nigger because you can lose weight and stop being fat; what's to say you can't stop being a nigger? If nigger is "dumber, less competent, more criminally inclined, lazy" as the definitions I've found say it is, why can you not become smarter? Gain more job experience to become competent at your profession? Don't break the law? Don't be lazy?

Because nigger DOESN'T MEAN THAT. People who use the word nigger aren't looking at individual black people and thinking "Hmmm, this black man could be putting in a lot more effort to further himself as a human being, therefore he is a nigger". Nigger is a blanket term, that's what's offensive about. By using it, the person saying it is making an assumption that the person/people it's directed at ARE dumber, ARE less competent, purely because they're black.

I find it sad that it's gone this long without someone pointing out that a black comedian doing the same thing to white people in the audience and using words like "cracker" and "honkey" would have barely got a raised eyebrow from anyone outside the place. And don't give me that bollocks about cracker not being as offensive as nigger, black people use cracker in the same way white people used to use nigger - as a insult regarding race.

That IS entirely different. It IS less offensive. Cracker and Honkey don't have the history that Nigger does. Furthermore, black people are in a position which means that they can get away with it. I doubt a white man has ever had a black manager refuse him a job because he's white. Certainly not as often as the opposite has occurred. It's a little more complicated that that but, effectively, racism is only racism is having a detrimental effect on the person it's directed at. "Cracker" jokes don't, and the people who tell them KNOW that.

And on the flip side, no one should ever heckle anyone.

I disagree with that. I know in most American comedy clubs you're actually not allowed to heckle, but in most places, certainly in British stand-up, it's a staple of the genre. It proves that the comedian can think on his feet, for one thing.

[NobBe Nobbs]

Oldskool, I like you, but you're being a fucking moron. The reason there are so many black affirmative action groups is that America is still very much a segregated society, whether they like it or not. Because of the history of the black man in the United States living a lower-class lifestyle, the majority of them are still living that. It's not something you can change overnight, especially when people in a position of power bring out arguments anything like the ones you've been using.

The unemployment rates, higher crime rates etc. have far more to do with the fact that the majority of black people in America are socially excluded, and because of the institutional racism rife in that country, meaning that for the most part they don't have access to good education or a good lifestyle. Poor white people commit crime too, it's not a race issue.

Edited November 22, 2006 by Be

[Scruffy The Janitor]

Oldskool, I like you, but you're being a fucking moron. The reason there are so many black affirmative action groups is that America is still very much a segregated society, whether they like it or not. Because of the history of the black man in the United States living a lower-class lifestyle, the majority of them are still living that. It's not something you can change overnight, especially when people in a position of power bring out arguments anything like the ones you've been using.

The unemployment rates, higher crime rates etc. have far more to do with the fact that the majority of black people in America are socially excluded, and because of the institutional racism rife in that country, meaning that for the most part they don't have access to good education or a good lifestyle. Poor white people commit crime too, it's not a race issue.

Skummy, I like you, but this is plain retarded. Explain to me again how it's fair for American universities to put quotas on the amount of caucasian or Asian students they're allowed to let in, or for them to have a minimum number of black students. Explain how it's fair that for the purposes of letting them into colleges, Asian students start with a thirty-point handicap on their SAT scores while black students start with a bonus of almost 200 points. Explain how it's fair that a mediocre black student can take the spot of a much brighter Asian or caucasian student simply based on their skin colour. The only people keeping America "segregated" are the affirmative action groups that are doing nothing but creating more prejudice against black people.

[Skummy]

The people not getting jobs because they're white thing is entirely different to what I meant, it's difficult to explain. White people not being given jobs because of their skin colour is down to quotas and "affirmative action", which while wrong in itself, is completely different to a black person not being given a job by a white man, because they're black, because that's assuming that the black person is lesser than a white person, which IS racism, even moreso than "affirmative action".

The affirmative action bullshit in America is ridiculous, but only because of the mess the country's already got itself in regarding race relations. I don't agree with black people being given advantages simply because they're black.

As for cracker, it's not as racist as nigger, simple as that. As I said before, black people are in a lesser position. Racism is only an issue if it's negatively affecting someone. Same with any discrimination. Nigger implies that a black person is a lesser class of human being, that they're lazy, stupid, and inferior. Cracker doesn't mean any of that, it's ironic usage of an archaic term.

[Iain76er]

Heckling is stupid. Richards should've just walked off before his racist tirade. That'd stop the prick from heckling again. Heckling is just a way for unfunny fucks who couldn't do a stand up show to look cool in front of their friends. It's the comedy equivalent of throwing stuff at bands. Axl Rose walks off, heck Lemmy walked off for a while last night when some cunt threw something.

[MalaCloudy Black]

Poor white people commit crime too

Hi!

[Buford Ripley]

Poor white people commit crime too

Hi!

[MalaCloudy Black]

I don't get it.

[Buford Ripley]

I don't get it.

[oldskool]

As for cracker, it's not as racist as nigger, simple as that. As I said before, black people are in a lesser position. Racism is only an issue if it's negatively affecting someone. Same with any discrimination. Nigger implies that a black person is a lesser class of human being, that they're lazy, stupid, and inferior. Cracker doesn't mean any of that, it's ironic usage of an archaic term.

[Steeb]

Out of interest then, those saying that 'cracker' isn't a racist term, what IS a racist term for white people? There's got to be one.

[apsham]

http://www.i-mockery.com/richards.php

[MalaCloudy Black]

He was my ride home.

[Skummy]

As for cracker, it's not as racist as nigger, simple as that. As I said before, black people are in a lesser position. Racism is only an issue if it's negatively affecting someone. Same with any discrimination. Nigger implies that a black person is a lesser class of human being, that they're lazy, stupid, and inferior. Cracker doesn't mean any of that, it's ironic usage of an archaic term.

:blink:

What I mean by "they're in a lesser position", despite my horrible wording, is that they're the ones being discriminated against, and have been for centuries. No one can argue that point, it's FACT. I shouldn't have used the word "lesser" twice there, just lazy wording on my part. They're in a lesser position...I don't know what better way I could think of wording that, basically they're worse-off, they're not in as advantageous a social group as white people.

Out of interest then, those saying that 'cracker' isn't a racist term, what IS a racist term for white people? There's got to be one.

At a push, honky. White people are, almost always, in the position of a power, though, and as such are in no position to be discriminated against. Social Sciences teaches that racism is only effectively racism if it can be acted out as discrimination, and seeing as white people are the ones in the position to discriminate, it's arguable whether there's "got to be" a racist term for them or not.

Edited November 22, 2006 by Skumfrog

[Steeb]

Surely racism is more about hatred than discrimination? I know a lot of black and asian people hate white people, whether that be for our apparant 'power' or whatever reason.

[Sweet Holy Moses]

I think, perhaps, an investigation of the origin of such terms as "cracker" and "nigger" is in order. "Nigger" is simply a derivation of the term "negro," meaning black. "Cracker", if I recall correctly, is related to the fact that, several hundred years ago, white people used to crack their black slaves with whips. One who makes something crack, is, therefore, a cracker. So "cracker" directly refers to a white man's slave-owning history, while "nigger" refers to skin color. (There are several other etymological explanations for "cracker," none of which are particularly endearing). Of course, there exists several hundred years of use where "nigger" has attained serious negative connotations, and it is justifiably seen as a vile, derogatory word. But I fail to see how "cracker," with the direct implication that the one who is called such is a slave-owner or -trader, is not seen a being nearly as negative a term.

Just my two cents.

[NobBe Nobbs]

One thing I just remembered, a little thing called the Constitution that gave every man the right to freedom of speech. Oh, wait, some black people have been offended, there it goes out the window.

[zero]

One thing I just remembered, a little thing called the Constitution that gave every man the right to freedom of speech. Oh, wait, some black people have been offended, there it goes out the window.

Yeah, and no one arrested Michael Richards, did they? He has a right to spew any nonsense he wants, but you can't exactly expect people to agree with it. The KKK get to say whatever they want too, no one's taking that right from them.

"Cracker", if I recall correctly, is related to the fact that, several hundred years ago, white people used to crack their black slaves with whips. One who makes something crack, is, therefore, a cracker. So "cracker" directly refers to a white man's slave-owning history, while "nigger" refers to skin color

That's the first time I have ever heard that. I always thought cracker just meant a cracker, like a saltine which is white in color.