Official NFL 2007 Thread

[ACCBiggz]

And Biggz, while I can see why you might think that, why have the Patriots been the only team to get caught or even rumored to be doing it?

[Evil Chase K]

Right, the forfeits may not be being discussed, but that wasn't the question. The fact is Goodell COULD force New England to forfeit games.

But it doesn't matter, this matter proves to me that Bill Belichick is far from the genius he's made out to be. Case in point being Romeo Crennell's failure in Cleveland as well as the lack of good coaches further down on Belichick's coaching tree.

Look at Bill Walsh and all the excellent coaches he's produced. Belichick, not so much.

I just think it's quite telling that Belichick never would lose to a team twice. I find it quite telling that teams who lost to New England quite often said the same thing "It was almost like they knew what plays were gonna run." I think it's quite telling that Belichick's team is also under investigation for the number of radio frequencies they've used.

Bottom line, what Belichick is doing is way worse from a FOOTBALL standpoint than anything Michael Vick, Chris Henry, Adam Jones, or anyone else has done. The Patriots three Super Bowl wins now HAVE to be questioned, and that hurts the credibility of the entire league.

And if by some chance the Pats get to the Super Bowl again this season, it will be a major blow to the NFL. To have a team that has been cheating in the championship game is terrible for the league.

This is a huge deal, and the Pats should be punished by losing multiple day one picks for at least the next two years.

Hell, years ago the Steelers had to forfeit a third round pick after then Pittsburgh Post writer John Clayton reported that the Steelers were practicing in pads and hitting each other weeks before the NFL said was allowed.

And this...this is way worse.

[ACCBiggz]

It's still speculation for anyone to claim it's happened any of those other times, as likely as it is. You only know for sure they did it on the times they got caught. I'm not going to persecute the team, coaching staff, or anyone else associated with the organization during their super bowl runs for stuff we don't know. To me it's just the wrong thing to do.

[Evil Chase K]

There's an article from a Boston television station that said Eric Mangini pointed the guy out to NFL security because he recognized him from when he was with the Pats.

Granted that's not hard evidence that this was going on, but Mangini apparently had suspicions.

And like Mike Tomlin said "Where there's smoke, there's usually fire."

[ACCBiggz]

Again, that's one game. I think it's wrong to say "hey you did this one game, I KNOW you did it every other game, take away all those trophies, no super bowl wins, etc." And from that Boston article about the Packers game, even the Packers official said taht isn't the reason they beat the Packers. Where it does help is against teams like the Jets when you film it and get ready for the second game against them. Signal calling in any sport to me is fine as long as its done in game. The Patriots filming it offers benefits to future games, I think that's wrong, but shouldn't be punished by putting losses on their record and all that just for the first time offense, which it is as they've never done anything to them before.

[Your Mom]

Yes. The commissioner of the league has the ability to force forfeiture of any game for any reason if he decides there was an "UNFAIR ACT" that has taken place.

And Biggz, while I can see why you might think that, why have the Patriots been the only team to get caught or even rumored to be doing it? While I agree other teams might try to steal signals, there is no evidence.

Goodell should severely punish the Patriots organization and Belichick needs to be suspended at LEAST four games. Which is the same amount a player who tries to gain a competitive advantage via performance enhancing substances gets docked.

Suspending Belicheck wouldn't be enough; the offensive and defensive coordinators should be suspended as well, because they'd have to be in on it to some degree, or at least aware of it and would be guilty for not reporting it to the league.

If it were up to me, I'd suspend Belicheck for 4 games, the coordinators 2 games, and Belicheck's suspension would have to take place against the team(s) that signals were stolen from. And the Patriots would NOT be allowed to have home field advantage in the playoffs.

HOWEVER, that's for a first time offense. If they're caught doing it again, then the people responsible should be suspended for the entire season - including the playoffs.

And Tom Brady should be hanged! And the entire offensive line shall be castrated while they are forced to watch a biker gang curb stomp Lawrence Maroney!

[Evil Chase K]

Again, that's one game. I think it's wrong to say "hey you did this one game, I KNOW you did it every other game, take away all those trophies, no super bowl wins, etc." And from that Boston article about the Packers game, even the Packers official said taht isn't the reason they beat the Packers. Where it does help is against teams like the Jets when you film it and get ready for the second game against them. Signal calling in any sport to me is fine as long as its done in game. The Patriots filming it offers benefits to future games, I think that's wrong, but shouldn't be punished by putting losses on their record and all that just for the first time offense, which it is as they've never done anything to them before.

[ACCBiggz]

If you want to do anything more than just cast a shadow over them by insinuations then you need hard proof. And as I said earlier, signal stealing in itself isn't a big deal. When teams exchange tape and you study it you look for tells. Maybe the MLB looks to his OLB's and signals with an X toward his helmet and they blitz strong side every time... that's a tell, that's signal stealing. It happens. The only part where the Patriots are wrong in this, to me personally, is that they filmed the sidelines for future use. If they had a third stringer by the coaches stealing their signals in game without video then I'd have no problem.. I'd tell the Jets, Packers, etc, even myself if I were the coach we need to do a better job with our signals as they are being read too easily.

[GhostMachine]

ECK is right; it is worse than what Vick, Henry and Jones have done.

If its found that this is why the Patriots have been so good under Belicheck, then I don't think suspensions would be enough. Anyone involved - and that includes any players who know about it, not just the coaching staff - should be kicked out of the league, and heaven help Robert Kraft if he knew what was going on and didn't do anything about it.

When college teams are busted for cheating and major rules infractions (ie, recruiting infractions, using ineligable players (but in that case, they usually get stripped of wins that the illegal player played in )), they usually lose scholarships and are banned from conference championships and bowl games for a year or more depending on how bad the infractions are. I don't see why a professional league shouldn't be allowed to have the same restrictions, because it would be a LOT worse in a pro league. If there is any hard proof, then strip them of all first round draft picks for a year or two and don't allow them to trade their way back into the first round during that time and if they find the cheating has been ongoing for a long time, then either ban them from the postseason completely for two or three years or don't allow them to get home field advantage in the playoffs for about five. (And don't hold the Super Bowl in their stadium during that time)

*edit* Sara, I know you were being sarcastic with your comments about hanging Tom Brady, etc, but when coaches cheat they should pay the price. Its like NASCAR, where when crew chiefs blatantly cheat to gain an advantage by making illegal modifications to cars they get suspended as well as fined and the team gets docked points toward the championship. Cheating by stealing your opponent's signals is just as bad, if not worse, and I can't see how the offensive and defensive coordinators wouldn't know what's going on.

Edited September 12, 2007 by GhostMachine

[Cactus Drags]

How the fuck the Ravens only lost by 7 is beyond me. We handed the game to the Bengals and they struggled to win. If we can get our offense in sync I'm very confident about how this season could unfold, but if not I'm scared. I'm still pretty pissed about that blown call on Todd Heap's TD, but since they gave us a bullshit holding call on the next play to make up for it I'm more pissed at Kyle Boller for not knowing exactly how to run an offense.

[OGpistolpete]

I'm glad they cheated. Good to know they take these games seriously and want to win a championship, no matter how they do it.

[Evil Chase K]

That's ridiculous SKA. Every team takes it serious, hence all the hard work. I guess rooting for the Browns must turn you into an idiot or something because that just might be the stupidest thing I've read in this thread.

And Biggz, I too have no problem trying to figure out tells and on-field actions and what they will lead to, that's what Peyton Manning does and it's legal and totally understandable. The problem comes when you A.) tape defensive signals for later use, and B.) mic up defensive linemen to learn offensive signals.

Use of audio in any form is strictly prohibited and against the rules.

[ACCBiggz]

Like I said, I do think that is wrong, but it shouldn't be blown up to the point a lot of anti-Patriot fans are making it out to be. As JHS sarcastically put it is like everyone is out calling for their heads. I think the commish is taking a right step in just looking in to taking a draft pick away and so on down the line.

I watched some of Mike and Mike this morning and they were talking about Crennel and Mangini being guilty if this has been going on for some time as they were there and never said anything, and they wandered how deep it goes in the NFL. It's an interesting point, but all teams try and steal signals. I don't think this will be a big deal in the long run, personally.

I'm glad they cheated. Good to know they take these games seriously and want to win a championship, no matter how they do it.

[Evil Chase K]

I think it's a huge deal because they've been doing it for a while and it's obviously helped them be as good as they have been for several years. To me, it definitely taints all three of their Super Bowl wins.

Well except the 2nd one, Carolina blew that game.

[naiwf]

ECK is right; it is worse than what Vick, Henry and Jones have done.

If its found that this is why the Patriots have been so good under Belicheck, then I don't think suspensions would be enough. Anyone involved - and that includes any players who know about it, not just the coaching staff - should be kicked out of the league, and heaven help Robert Kraft if he knew what was going on and didn't do anything about it.

When college teams are busted for cheating and major rules infractions (ie, recruiting infractions, using ineligable players (but in that case, they usually get stripped of wins that the illegal player played in )), they usually lose scholarships and are banned from conference championships and bowl games for a year or more depending on how bad the infractions are. I don't see why a professional league shouldn't be allowed to have the same restrictions, because it would be a LOT worse in a pro league. If there is any hard proof, then strip them of all first round draft picks for a year or two and don't allow them to trade their way back into the first round during that time and if they find the cheating has been ongoing for a long time, then either ban them from the postseason completely for two or three years or don't allow them to get home field advantage in the playoffs for about five. (And don't hold the Super Bowl in their stadium during that time)

*edit* Sara, I know you were being sarcastic with your comments about hanging Tom Brady, etc, but when coaches cheat they should pay the price. Its like NASCAR, where when crew chiefs blatantly cheat to gain an advantage by making illegal modifications to cars they get suspended as well as fined and the team gets docked points toward the championship. Cheating by stealing your opponent's signals is just as bad, if not worse, and I can't see how the offensive and defensive coordinators wouldn't know what's going on.

[Lowerdeck]

ECK is right; it is worse than what Vick, Henry and Jones have done.

If its found that this is why the Patriots have been so good under Belicheck, then I don't think suspensions would be enough. Anyone involved - and that includes any players who know about it, not just the coaching staff - should be kicked out of the league, and heaven help Robert Kraft if he knew what was going on and didn't do anything about it.

When college teams are busted for cheating and major rules infractions (ie, recruiting infractions, using ineligable players (but in that case, they usually get stripped of wins that the illegal player played in )), they usually lose scholarships and are banned from conference championships and bowl games for a year or more depending on how bad the infractions are. I don't see why a professional league shouldn't be allowed to have the same restrictions, because it would be a LOT worse in a pro league. If there is any hard proof, then strip them of all first round draft picks for a year or two and don't allow them to trade their way back into the first round during that time and if they find the cheating has been ongoing for a long time, then either ban them from the postseason completely for two or three years or don't allow them to get home field advantage in the playoffs for about five. (And don't hold the Super Bowl in their stadium during that time)

*edit* Sara, I know you were being sarcastic with your comments about hanging Tom Brady, etc, but when coaches cheat they should pay the price. Its like NASCAR, where when crew chiefs blatantly cheat to gain an advantage by making illegal modifications to cars they get suspended as well as fined and the team gets docked points toward the championship. Cheating by stealing your opponent's signals is just as bad, if not worse, and I can't see how the offensive and defensive coordinators wouldn't know what's going on.

Why not just contract them from the league, ban all players, coaches, assistants and waterboys from the NFL and be done with it?

Because you're really going to fuck Boston and all of New England out of a team?

Oh wait, you're from New York. Nevermind, I should have expected this.

[naiwf]

I was being sarcastic. Chill out.

[jase12881]

I think New England, as a punishment, should be forced to pick a single city/state to represent and stop trying to cover the entire New England area!

Alternatively, how does the Pacific Coast Patriots sound?

Seriously, I don't think it's -that- big of a deal, but I think maybe they will probably be punished somewhat harshly to set an example. (which I don't necessarily think is just)

[gunnar hendershow]

I just think it's quite telling that Belichick never would lose to a team twice. I find it quite telling that teams who lost to New England quite often said the same thing "It was almost like they knew what plays were gonna run." I think it's quite telling that Belichick's team is also under investigation for the number of radio frequencies they've used.

I think it's very telling that by the fact various Ravens were injured on Monday Night that the Bengals set out to injure their stars to have the team fall apart over the course of the season. The evidence is there. You could come up with a crazy conspiracy theory about anything, you see? It only sounds like it makes sense if you want to believe it and ignore everything else.

[Toe]

I just think it's quite telling that Belichick never would lose to a team twice. I find it quite telling that teams who lost to New England quite often said the same thing "It was almost like they knew what plays were gonna run." I think it's quite telling that Belichick's team is also under investigation for the number of radio frequencies they've used.

I think it's very telling that by the fact various Ravens were injured on Monday Night that the Bengals set out to injure their stars to have the team fall apart over the course of the season. The evidence is there. You could come up with a crazy conspiracy theory about anything, you see? It only sounds like it makes sense if you want to believe it and ignore everything else.

Edited September 13, 2007 by Toe