NFL 2008

[Evil Chase K]

I just thinks it's dumb to give up all those picks for a guy that they've could've signed this offseason when their primary need RIGHT NOW is at CB. They already have a potent offense with Witten, Barber, and TO adding Williams for the picks they had to give up is beyond stupid.

[naiwf]

(And yeah, yeah, I know--the Bengals are 0-5... Shaddup. )

0-6 actually which is depressing since I like Palmer, 85 and Whosyourmama. Sadly their window slammed shut when that Steeler guy cheapshotted Carson in that playoff game.

[Evil Chase K]

(And yeah, yeah, I know--the Bengals are 0-5... Shaddup. )

0-6 actually which is depressing since I like Palmer, 85 and Whosyourmama. Sadly their window slammed shut when that Steeler guy cheapshotted Carson in that playoff game.

Edited October 15, 2008 by Evil Chase K

[alldaws1]

I just thinks it's dumb to give up all those picks for a guy that they've could've signed this offseason when their primary need RIGHT NOW is at CB. They already have a potent offense with Witten, Barber, and TO adding Williams for the picks they had to give up is beyond stupid.

This isn't just a move for right now though, it's a move for the future. Jerry Jones sees Roy Williams as T.O.'s eventual replacement and that's why he's gone out and got him. Yes, our CB group has taken a hit due to Newman's injury and Pacman's suspension, but Newman's back in three weeks or so and Pacman possibly a couple of weeks after that. It doesn't make sense to spend a lot of money on a free agent (also remember, Dallas doesn't have much room on the cap) or use a few draft picks to go out and get another CB that can help us in the short term, especially when we have a very good group of CBs lined up for the future, it's spending for the sake of a few games which to be honest aren't the hardest on our schedule.

We have some injuries but we have back-ups, they're there to fill in when needed, that's why they're on the roster. If the coaching staff didn't think they would do a good enough job of that then they wouldn't be on the roster in the first place.

[Plankton]

(And yeah, yeah, I know--the Bengals are 0-5... Shaddup. )

0-6 actually which is depressing since I like Palmer, 85 and Whosyourmama. Sadly their window slammed shut when that Steeler guy cheapshotted Carson in that playoff game.

Damn... you're right. I'm already trying to put this lousy season out of my mind.

[Evil Chase K]

I just thinks it's dumb to give up all those picks for a guy that they've could've signed this offseason when their primary need RIGHT NOW is at CB. They already have a potent offense with Witten, Barber, and TO adding Williams for the picks they had to give up is beyond stupid.

This isn't just a move for right now though, it's a move for the future. Jerry Jones sees Roy Williams as T.O.'s eventual replacement and that's why he's gone out and got him. Yes, our CB group has taken a hit due to Newman's injury and Pacman's suspension, but Newman's back in three weeks or so and Pacman possibly a couple of weeks after that. It doesn't make sense to spend a lot of money on a free agent (also remember, Dallas doesn't have much room on the cap) or use a few draft picks to go out and get another CB that can help us in the short term, especially when we have a very good group of CBs lined up for the future, it's spending for the sake of a few games which to be honest aren't the hardest on our schedule.

We have some injuries but we have back-ups, they're there to fill in when needed, that's why they're on the roster. If the coaching staff didn't think they would do a good enough job of that then they wouldn't be on the roster in the first place.

If they don't have a lot of cap room, and cannot spend money to upgrade ther defensive backfield, why would they trade for a guy who will be a free agent at the end of this season. Who, if they're hoping to use as TO's replacement, would need to be re-signed.

Especially when they could've just waited until the end of the season, saved their picks and (like all the best franchises in the NFL do) actually used those picks on young players who would make their team better.

Just seems like Jerry Jones got horny for another receiver and made a dumb move.

[Maxx]

The Cowboys are built to win now. Its stupid to keep assuming that we'll draft players who will magically be stud NFL players within a year. I guarentee you that first round pick would have gone towards a WR in next year's draft. Why not spend it on a young talent who managed to make the pro bowl while playing for the Lions? Instead of wasting it on a guy who may not pan out at all?

Our offense hasn't been the machine it was last year since the Eagles game. More teams are blanketing TO which throws off the entire offense. Roy Williams solves that problem and gives us second stud reciever on offense. The 3 Superbowl teams didn't even have that good of a passing game. And Williams is no longer a free agent at the end of the year, he signed an extension through 2013.

Yeah, our secondary is a problem, but your solution is moronic. We've already got a truckload of DBs, they're just banged up. Why would you go out and add more, then create a massive logjam at the position in 3-4 weeks when people start returning? Our next 2 games are against St. Louis and Tampa Bay, not exactly spectacular passing games there. The only problem game coming is the Giants, which is followed by the bye week, and after that our secondary should be returning to strength.

That being said I won't be suprised if the Cowboys go out and sign another DB they can cut later.

This was ultimately a move designed to help the Cowboys in the playoffs. Yes they still have to get there, but obviously Jerry is convinced they will. TO, Roy Williams and Witten have the potential to be a powerhouse offense, with the Barber/Jones backfield. If all goes well it'll gel by playoff time and get us that big win we've been seeking. And by that I of course mean winning a single playoff game.

Edited October 15, 2008 by Maxx

[alldaws1]

If they don't have a lot of cap room, and cannot spend money to upgrade ther defensive backfield, why would they trade for a guy who will be a free agent at the end of this season. Who, if they're hoping to use as TO's replacement, would need to be re-signed.

Especially when they could've just waited until the end of the season, saved their picks and (like all the best franchises in the NFL do) actually used those picks on young players who would make their team better.

Just seems like Jerry Jones got horny for another receiver and made a dumb move.

You have to find the right mix between being successful now and being successful down the road. You're suggesting plugging up the holes we currently have by, as Maxx said, log-jamming a position we're already strong at when healthy just because we're a couple of guys short for a few games. WR has been a need since Terry Glenn got injured and unlike our CB group, at full health the WR corps could still have done with a big upgrade which is what Roy Williams is. Add to that he's only 26 and, again as Maxx said, he's a better pick-up than drafting a guy who may not work out.

[livid]

My only problem with the Williams trade is the fact the Cowboys gave up entirely too much to get him. Other than that, it's not that bad of a move. He's young, he's good and he fills a position of somewhat need but will eventually become a need. With him, Romo, Witten and Barber, they now have an offensive nucleus that's young but not too young and they'll be hitting their primes pretty much together.

It's unfortunate because I hate the Cowboys but it's still not a bad move by them.

[alldaws1]

On the surface it seems like Dallas gave up a lot but we still have eight draft picks:

Round 2

Round 3 (Browns)

Round 4 (Lions, not from the Williams trade)

Round 5

Round 5 (Titans)

Round 6 (Dolphins)

Round 7

Round 7 (Lions)

Obviously the lack of a 1st round pick is significant but we had two this year and there's not many positions on our team now that we need someone to come in and make an impact at straight away. Overall I think it's a good deal for Dallas.

[Evil Chase K]

If they don't have a lot of cap room, and cannot spend money to upgrade ther defensive backfield, why would they trade for a guy who will be a free agent at the end of this season. Who, if they're hoping to use as TO's replacement, would need to be re-signed.

Especially when they could've just waited until the end of the season, saved their picks and (like all the best franchises in the NFL do) actually used those picks on young players who would make their team better.

Just seems like Jerry Jones got horny for another receiver and made a dumb move.

You have to find the right mix between being successful now and being successful down the road. You're suggesting plugging up the holes we currently have by, as Maxx said, log-jamming a position we're already strong at when healthy just because we're a couple of guys short for a few games. WR has been a need since Terry Glenn got injured and unlike our CB group, at full health the WR corps could still have done with a big upgrade which is what Roy Williams is. Add to that he's only 26 and, again as Maxx said, he's a better pick-up than drafting a guy who may not work out.

I actually don't think the move was all that bad now that I've learned that they signed him through 2013 as part of the deal. That makes a hell of a lot easier to swallow. I still think they gave up too much, but it's not nearly as bad of a move as I first thought.

[Plankton]

So we're 6 weeks in, and its obviously too early to start talking about who should get the MVP award, but what players have at least kept themselves in the discussion?

I wouldn't personally keep a lot of guys out of consideration. QBs are the most obvious choices, and plenty have played well. Jay Cutler is keeping his team alive, Donovan McNabb is back to his old self, Ben Roethlisberger is keeping the Steelers alive despite the terrible offensive line, and Drew Brees has a ton of yards already. Brett Favre probably keeps himself in the MVP mix based solely on his performance against the Cardinals and solid play in most of the other games. I like Eli Manning a lot too, and if it wouldn't have been for a bad game on Monday, he'd be the frontrunner.

I suppose Jason Campbell and Phillip Rivers could be in the mix soon, but for now, the other QBs have been more MVP-ish. With a few more games like he had this week, I'd be more than willing to tout Peyton Manning too, but for now, one great game among a bunch of bad ones isn't enough to put him with the others.

RBs have been a bit more inconsistent. Marion Barber has definitely been the most reliable Cowboy. Brandon Jacobs has also been pretty good. And while I think that the Dolphins' turnaround has been a team effort all the way, Ronnie Brown has had a huge impact for them. And Clinton Portis is the single most effective person on his team. Frank Gore, I think, is also a guy to look out for depending on how many game-changing plays he can make.

If it wasn't for his injury, Brian Westbrook would almost definitely be on this list. LT and Adrian Petersen have been valuable for their teams, but both have performed below expectations.

No WRs stand out to me. A lot of QBs are throwing it around all over the field this season, so none of them seem equally as valuable as a QB or RB.

So who else is standing out this season so far? I know I have to be missing a few people. (or who else am I totally wrong about?)

Edited October 15, 2008 by Plankton

[IAceI]

It's difficult to say really, I think I'd have to strip it down to its bare bones and say that if the MVP is for the best player on a team. As in, take them out of the equation and they wouldn't perform even nearly as well, I'd feel inclined to take Drew Brees.

The guy is almost like a machine. He just... gets the job done, he makes a lot of his passes and keeps his TD:Int ratio good. I feel that other teams are better all round, and therefore their players don't have as much an impact. I know Reggie Bush is a great runner, but he's used massively as a receiver as well - keeps opponents on their toes I suppose.

So, right now, it's close - and I don't think there's many players who have stuck out phenomenally (I guess that's due to the lack of Peyton Manning or Tom Brady who usually play at such a high level) but I'll put my neck on the chopping board and say that Drew Brees is my MVP.

Obviously I need to give an honorable mention to my own player Clinton Portis. He's behind an alright offensive line yet is still managing to rip it up. Left side we're pretty solid, right side on the run we're quite poor really so it kind of evens out to an average line in my eyes yet he still managed to run for 145 yards on his own against the then number 1 ranked run stop defence. I don't think he's going to be the league MVP, but so far he's a strong candidate for the first NFC RB to the Pro Bowl. Although I know the Pro Bowl isn't a great indicator of much - as it's also a popularity contest.

Either way - Drew Brees is my MVP at the moment. But I have a soft spot for him.

[alldaws1]

Kurt Warner needs a shout-out as one of the better QBs in the league, and Romo's already had a few 300+ yard games. I think there's a fair few solid QBs but Drew Brees is the only one who really stands out for me. However, I think in terms of most valuable I give it to Jay Cutler. Best offensive player would be Brees at this point.

As for best players of other positions, definitely Clinton Portis at RB. Perhaps Brandon Marshall for best WR but no one really stands out there as you mentioned. Roddy White deserves a shout-out. Clearly TE is already won by Jason Witten

Defensive player of the year? Not a lot are really standing out, probably because it's still early in the season but Cortland Finnegan of the Titans is having a great year. As for rookies, I give the offensive nod to Matt Forte and I think Chris Horton has been pretty impressive for the 'Skins on the defensive side.

Edited October 15, 2008 by AD

[livid]

The only one really standing out at this point is Brees. Considering the fact that his top WR (Colston) has been out for most of the season and he's still putting up huge yards and the absolutely mind-boggling number of a 71% completion percentage, he's just playing great at this point.

Other than him, I wouldn't say that any of the other players having good years are better than any of the others. It seems like it's Drew Brees and a then handful of guys you could make an outside case for.

Forte's doing good but for offensive rookie I'd have to give the nod to Matt Ryan.

Edited October 15, 2008 by P52 Bomber

[Plankton]

Matt Ryan is a shoe-in for rookie as long as he can stay healthy.

Let's say that Brees keeps up his awesome playing for the rest of the season, but the Saints' lackluster defense somehow keeps them around the .500 mark and out of the playoffs. Is Brees a logical MVP choice? I'd have to say no. If you really were the most valuable, you'd get your team in. That may not be entirely fair, but it's probably the best way to measure it.

It all comes down to the every-season argument of whether or not you factor in the rest of the team. On one hand, you don't want to punish a guy for playing on a good team. But if you don't, you're downgrading other players because they don't play on those teams.

At the end of the day though, what's most valuable? A guy who can keep his team in the mix consistently, and then make those big, game-changing plays when you need him to.

All that being said, at 71% completion, Brees should be able to make that happen.

EDIT:

Clearly TE is already won by Jason Witten

Cooley could give him a run for his money; Campbell really likes to throw to him. But yeah, Witten's definitely the frontrunner right now.

Edited October 15, 2008 by Plankton

[IAceI]

Big up for AD on the Redskins love. Nice because recently I've come across quite a few more Cowboys fans who are willing to give the Redskins props when it's deserved, and vice versa. It's nice because it's a rivalry, but it's not like we need to be at loggerheads every day.

Shame there'll always be fans who just don't know what they're talking about that you have to deal with.

[Cactus Drags]

I know what you mean. But seriously, fuck the Packers and all their stupid cheese-eating doucebag Favre-loving fans.

[NobBe Nobbs]

Is Brees a logical MVP choice? I'd have to say no. If you really were the most valuable, you'd get your team in.

Wroooooooooooooooooooooooooooong.

Brees is a quarterback, one of the best playing at the moment and capable of carrying a team's offense on his back. What he is not is a member of the defense and, aside from maybe giving them good field position every so often, there is absolutely nothing he can do to help his defense not suck. He would still be the logical choice because logic would dictate that you look at the problem rationally and without emotion; he might not be the MVP from an emotional perspective, but that shouldn't be what it's about.

[Plankton]

But assuming that the defense rankings stay similar, if Denver (30), San Diego (28), Jacksonville (22), or Indianapolis (21) make it to the playoffs and the Saints (19) doesn't, you can make a really good argument for the likes of Cutler, Rivers, LT, Garrard, or Peyton. They have poor defenses too, but their offense, which they lead, carried their teams to the playoffs, and Brees didn't.

But at this point, it's a little silly to be arguing with so many "what if" scenarios. But I don't think it's as cut and dry as stats. Sometimes it's about getting wins and making up for the deficiencies in your team. It's not a completely impartial way of looking at it, but it still matters when it comes to value. The Falcons' defense dropped the ball this Sunday and allowed the Bears to score on their last drive. But Ryan and Jenkins pulled off a pretty spectacular play and won the game. Hypothetically speaking, if Brees (good stats or not) doesn't pull off those types of plays, then what would have made him so valuable this season? Wouldn't someone with slightly worse stats who is able to pull off big plays when it counts and win games be of more value?

My argument isn't against Brees (with extra emphasis so as not to confuse my argument), but it's against the philosophy of just looking at stats. Stats matter, but you have to balance it out between that and other factors, like the ability to carry your team. There are other guys out there who can carry their teams (even when you play offense and your defense drops the ball), and if you can't, you have less value.