Conan vs Leno

[apsham]

Conan has always run the better show in my eyes, no matter where he was. There's just something tons more likeable about watching him than Letterman, Leno or any of those other chumps.

[zero]

Well, there are 60 years of history of the show starting at 11:30. Conan will probably get a conditional release from his contract, but I doubt NBC will try to pursue the claim that he's in breach. NBC will come out of this looking like the most bush league network in existence, that fucked up the last two late night transitions and screwed over the assumed successors, who both have extremely loyal followers. NBC has to tread lightly here, especially if they want Jay Leno to keep his nice guy image, which will take a major hit through this debacle.

[Ananas]

Sounds like Leno might make their mind up for them. Pop Eater is reporting that Leno is seriously considering leaving NBC. If that were to happen I think you have your solution; leave Conan in the Tonight Show (since he wouldn't have grounds to quit) and let time be the best medicine. Leno has clear grounds to walk (assuming he had a time slot guarantee in his contract, which he probably did) so it might be more expensive to convince him to stay. My opinion: cut the chin fat and take your ratings lumps in the interim. There has to be a time where NBC says enough of this pandering bullshit; it's time to start building for the future. The whole deal is epidemic of the way Jeff Zucker has dithered this network to the point of oblivion. He kept Friends around for an eternity without finding a natural heir. He let Frasier and ER waste away to the point where their finales were meaningless. His answer to declining ratings was to replace high ceiling but more expensive scripted content with irrelevant but cheap reality TV. When the other networks realised that didn't work and kept reality TV to a minimum, he went even CHEAPER and handed 5 hours of prime time to a fucking variety show. At some point Zucker has to realise: when ratings eventually get so low that even reality TV is too expensive, what then? PBS style telathons with old movies in between? Wall to Wall Today Show? Jeff Zucker and Jay Leno sitting around comparing neck fat 24 hours a day? Do away with Leno, do away with Conan, whatever. Just DO SOMETHING. While Zucker and Co. stand idly by, two of America's two greatest media institutions (NBC and the Tonight Show) are wasting away.

[Death Before Dishonor]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704675104575001432860639468.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTWhatsNewsCollection

This news about viewership for the Tonight Show increasing makes me happy, of course I've been one of them. With sites like Hulu and websites of different shows putting up full episodes, I barely have time for "TV" in the traditional sense these days. However the last few episodes of the Tonight Show I've made sure to watch and DVR them. I wasn't expecting him to go anywhere so didn't feel the need to tune in every night, usually watching an episode or two on Hulu the next day.

However this week's episodes have been interesting and genuinely really, really funny.

Edited January 14, 2010 by Death Before Dishonor

[Big Red Fury]

I thought Letterman made a pretty good point, The Tonight Show at 12:05 technically isn't even The Tonight Show, it's the Tomorrow Show.

[sahyder1]

TMZ is reporting that NBC and Leno have agreed to hour long "Tonight Show" starting at 11:30 so yes....Conan is leaving. Good Riddance NBC. Thank you for clearing up the late night mess. I now have one less channel to watch at 11:30.

[GhostMachine]

TMZ is reporting that NBC and Leno have agreed to hour long "Tonight Show" starting at 11:30 so yes....Conan is leaving. Good Riddance NBC. Thank you for clearing up the late night mess. I now have one less channel to watch at 11:30.

Other sites are reporting that TMZ is full of shit.

[sahyder1]

TMZ is reporting that NBC and Leno have agreed to hour long "Tonight Show" starting at 11:30 so yes....Conan is leaving. Good Riddance NBC. Thank you for clearing up the late night mess. I now have one less channel to watch at 11:30.

Other sites are reporting that TMZ is full of shit.

Except for the fact that they are right most of the time and have it first. Yes, they pay people off.....but in the end they get the news.

[GhostMachine]

TMZ is reporting that NBC and Leno have agreed to hour long "Tonight Show" starting at 11:30 so yes....Conan is leaving. Good Riddance NBC. Thank you for clearing up the late night mess. I now have one less channel to watch at 11:30.

Other sites are reporting that TMZ is full of shit.

Except for the fact that they are right most of the time and have it first. Yes, they pay people off.....but in the end they get the news.

Oh, I'm not saying its not going to happen - and fuck NBC if does - but apparently TMZ is saying its already a done deal while other sites are saying it isn't yet.

[EddieG]

'cause TMZ are the only ones to say "fuck official reports, let's say it happened so we can say we were the first" see: Michael Jackson's death

[Gene Kiniski]

'cause TMZ are the only ones to say "fuck official reports, let's say it happened so we can say we were the first" see: Michael Jackson's death

Really? Because if I do recall they had confirmation and were not just reporting it first on Jackson's death.

[GhostMachine]

Dick Ebersol has spoken about the situation and said its not about Jay's failures but Conan's. He said Conan failed to listen to advice and change things so he'd appeal to a wider audience, and that this was NBC's decision, not Leno's.

I'd like to point out a few things:

1. Leno's coming off like an asshole because he's been portraying himself as a victim in all this, when he really isn't, and if he was it would be his own fault. He never should have agreed in 2004 to retire in 5 years if he didn't plan on actually retiring - not moving to another show - when the time came, and he could end all this crap by simply saying he wouldn't go back to the Tonight Show.

2. Leno didn't deserve to be the Tonight Show host in the first place.

3. Leno had almost a year and a half to build his ratings, and his ratings weren't all that great until he got the Hugh Grant interview. They're giving up on Conan after only 7 months.

4. If Conan goes elsewhere, some advertisers will probably go right along with him.

5. People relocated clear across the country to work on the Tonight Show and most, if not all, will likely end up unemployed if Conan leaves. The Tonight Show also employs more people than the Jay Leno Show does.

I've said it before either here or at one of the other four boards I go to that have discussions going on about this: I put the blame squarely on Jeff Zucker. He's an idiot who has run NBC into the ground, and I hope this eventually leads to him losing his job.

The support for Conan far outweighs the support for Leno, but NBC is too goddamned stupid to listen.

Edited January 15, 2010 by GhostMachine

[Ananas]

You shouldn't forget 2 things

6. Dick Ebersol is a blatant Jeff Zucker sycophant and has been for almost a decade now.

7. Dick Ebersol is just about to oversee the NBC Olympic coverage, which the network is expecting will lose them a huge sum of money. He's one to talk about failures.

[GoGo Yubari]

Dick Ebersol has spoken about the situation and said its not about Jay's failures but Conan's. He said Conan failed to listen to advice and change things so he'd appeal to a wider audience, and that this was NBC's decision, not Leno's.

Because if there's anyone who should be giving advice on comedy it's the guy who nearly killed Saturday Night Live.

[Guest JukeboxHero]

Jimmy Kimmel blasts Leno on his own show last night.

[Ananas]

Officially, nobody's commenting on Ebersol's blunt comments to the New York Times. But one person deep inside Team Coco responded with a mix of bemusement and sarcasm to Ebersol's tantrum, in which he basically says that O'Brien's ratings are down because he didn't bland down his act enough.

"This is the essence of NBC's problems," the Conan insider told TV MoJoe. "Conan O'Brien is losing his job because he didn't take the comedy notes of a 62-year-old sports producer."

[TheSqauredCircleMessiah]

Dick Ebersol has spoken about the situation and said its not about Jay's failures but Conan's. He said Conan failed to listen to advice and change things so he'd appeal to a wider audience, and that this was NBC's decision, not Leno's.

Because if there's anyone who should be giving advice on comedy it's the guy who nearly killed Saturday Night Live.

For what its worth, Dick Ebersol saved Saturday Night Live. Jean Doumanian nearly sunk that show in 1980 after Lorne Michaels left in 1980 and when Ebersol took, he saved that show from the brink of cancellation and eventually convinced Lorne Michaels to come back. Let's not paint Ebersol as some idiot, as he played a pivotal role in the establishment of Monday Night Football and the overall, NBC's Olympic Coverage have been a massive success for the network.

Now, I'm all for Conan keeping his job and he's funnier than Jay Leno but I'm not ready to throw Leno under the bus just yet untill I see something saying that Leno has orchestrated this (I assume there will be a Bill Carter book coming about all this). This is completely the fault of NBC, pure and simple.

1. Leno's coming off like an asshole because he's been portraying himself as a victim in all this, when he really isn't, and if he was it would be his own fault. He never should have agreed in 2004 to retire in 5 years if he didn't plan on actually retiring - not moving to another show - when the time came, and he could end all this crap by simply saying he wouldn't go back to the Tonight Show.

He was basically forced out, the same way NBC forced out Johnny Carson. Why NBC felt it was necessary to create a time table transition plan for Leno & Conan other than, "Conan gets the 'Tonight Show' when Jay retires" is beyond me and retarded. His brand of comedy aside, Jay Leno has consistently week in and week out beaten David Letterman for the better part of the past 15 years, despite CBS dominating NBC in primetime for years. Maybe NBC felt Leno's numbers would slip or Conan was on the verge of leaving and they panicked and gave him this deal. Either way, complete foul up on NBC's part.

2. Leno didn't deserve to be the Tonight Show host in the first place.

Maybe he didn't (and I believe he didn't) but its not as if the guy was a flop. The guy was number 1 for 15 years, show me how that is underserving to keep his gig?

3. Leno had almost a year and a half to build his ratings, and his ratings weren't all that great until he got the Hugh Grant interview. They're giving up on Conan after only 7 months.

4. If Conan goes elsewhere, some advertisers will probably go right along with him.

These go hand in hand. TV is a completely different animal in 2010 compared to 1992. TV isn't a game of what's fair, its what makes money. Now that the ad money that NBC had just counted on is up for grabs, all bets are off. Their primetime lineup is in the shitter and they need to make money where they can. Advertisers will go where the eyeballs go, that's why 30-second SuperBowl spots fetch over $2 million.

Maybe I'm just naive but I think any rush to paint Leno as the bad guy who cut Conan's legs out from under him is premature. I'd say everybody is getting the shaft.

[Ananas]

But I think you're assuming that it's only fair to paint Leno as the bad guy if he orchestrated this clusterfuck, which isn't true. There are some far reaching conspiracy theories (Howard Stern was talking about one the other day) that Leno took the 10pm show full well knowing that his ratings would in a roundabout way destroy Conan's audience and that he'd get his show back. I have no reason to believe that's the case beyond circumstantial evidence so I don't hold it against Leno. What I do hold against him is the overall arrogance and selfishness he's displayed over the past close to 3 years since the 2007 upfronts when he began to act the victim and imply he might jump to a competitor. I really wish that he realised the sun didn't shine out his ass and that, in fact, he's been incredibly lucky in his career so far and that after 17 seasons NBC was more than justified in looking to lock up its natural heir to the Tonight Show throne before he jumped to CBS and became the natural heir to the Late Show throne. He talked a good game about wanting to pass the torch to Conan and pretended he wished him well, but then why did he paint himself in the media as the victim being pushed to the side, making an enemy out of Conan in the eyes of the Tonight Show's aging viewership? Why did he take the primetime slot, ensuring that his fans need not even bother giving Conan a chance because the Tonight Show host they'd become accustomed to all these years wasn't actually gone? Why, when his own ratings proved so disastrous that he was canceled, did he demand a return to his old time slot, hereby bumping the heir who he'd just 7 months ago "passed the torch" to from the anchor slot in late night? If he didn't realise all of these things would hurt Conan, then he's just an idiot and is to be seen as little more than a lucky buffoon. If he did, then he is the bad guy because he said he'd do one thing then did the other. No matter how much Jay is riffing on "getting canceled", he's getting a promotion, and getting back the time slot he never wanted to vacate. If he had a little more humility and didn't try to pretend otherwise, people might not be so angry at him right now.

[Mr Evil Guy]

conan

he's soooo funny, i've been enjoying the NBC jokes tremendously and it'll suck to see him go.

[RPS]

I know it was posted earlier in the thread, but Jimmy Kimmel ripping Leno to shreds was just perfect. I've always really liked Kimmel, but that video solidifies WHY he is so amazing. I can't believe Leno didn't say anything. He just stood there and took EVERY blow.

Edited January 16, 2010 by RockPaperScissors