NHL 2010/2011

[SeanDMan]

The main reason Avery got fined is because he implied that the Hollywood sluts he was fucking were, in fact, sluts. The league is not concerned about protecting players, they are first and foremost interested in protecting the league. This is more or less the definitive proof.

[sahyder1]

Intent to injury shouldn't matter. You are responsible for your own actions. Even if Chara accidentally slammed Pacioretty into the post, he should receive punishment for his negligence and the severity of the incident.

That's just stupid. How would this solve anything? How would it improve player safety if they started punishing accidental contact? What's next? Stop at the blue line, look both wags to make sure there isno one nearby and then proceed?

It is a physical game. Differentiating between a bad hit and dirty hit is key.

[NobBe Nobbs]

And Chara's hit was both bad and dirty.

[Guest mr. potato head]

And Chara's hit was both bad and dirty.

It was questionable at worst. If it had happened in open ice, nobody but Basha would be calling for a suspension.

[Toe]

Intent to injury shouldn't matter. You are responsible for your own actions. Even if Chara accidentally slammed Pacioretty into the post, he should receive punishment for his negligence and the severity of the incident.

That's just stupid. How would this solve anything? How would it improve player safety if they started punishing accidental contact? What's next? Stop at the blue line, look both wags to make sure there isno one nearby and then proceed?

It is a physical game. Differentiating between a bad hit and dirty hit is key.

Chara's hit wasn't accidental. I can understand that he did not mean to push Pacioretty into the post, but he did fully intend to hit him. Chara should be held responsible for not being aware of his surroundings and the situation.

[SeanDMan]

There's trying to finish a check, and there's trying to finish a life. Chara was the latter.

[sahyder1]

And Chara's hit was both bad and dirty.

No it definitely was not.

Intent to injury shouldn't matter. You are responsible for your own actions. Even if Chara accidentally slammed Pacioretty into the post, he should receive punishment for his negligence and the severity of the incident.

That's just stupid. How would this solve anything? How would it improve player safety if they started punishing accidental contact? What's next? Stop at the blue line, look both wags to make sure there isno one nearby and then proceed?

It is a physical game. Differentiating between a bad hit and dirty hit is key.

Chara's hit wasn't accidental. I can understand that he did not mean to push Pacioretty into the post, but he did fully intend to hit him. Chara should be held responsible for not being aware of his surroundings and the situation.

Where did I say that it was accidental? I was just responding to your comment that even accidental contact should be punished which is just absurd. If Pacioretty gets right up we're not even having a discussion right now. If you acknowledge that he didn't mean to hit him into the post what are we suspending him for? Everyone hits.

[NobBe Nobbs]

No it definitely was not.

Sorry, kinda was. I'm surprised you haven't blogged about it yet.

It was questionable at worst. If it had happened in open ice, nobody but Basha would be calling for a suspension.

Yeah, but the point is that it didn't and now Pacioretty is injured to fuck. Using your logic, if it had happened and he'd been paralysed or worse, everybody would be calling for Chara to be arrested, and because it might have happened, it must happen now.

[Pizza]

Giving Chara as much benefit of the doubt as reasonably possible, he committed a reckless, irresponsible, and dangerous act on a player well after the puck had left the area, resulting in a player having a broken neck. He received a penalty that nobody is claiming was a bad call, so the play was clearly illegal. The people who say there shouldn't have been a suspension are wrong. Not a matter of opinion, you are wrong. This is assuming it was accidental. I don't think it was accidental, but that is at least debatable.

[Guest mr. potato head]

No it definitely was not.

Sorry, kinda was. I'm surprised you haven't blogged about it yet.

It was questionable at worst. If it had happened in open ice, nobody but Basha would be calling for a suspension.

Yeah, but the point is that it didn't and now Pacioretty is injured to fuck. Using your logic, if it had happened and he'd been paralysed or worse, everybody would be calling for Chara to be arrested, and because it might have happened, it must happen now.

No, my logic's about the hit itself, not the result of it.

[NobBe Nobbs]

No, my logic's about the hit itself, not the result of it.

Oh.

In that case, you're even wronger than ever. You're Chris Wronger, telling us that Chara pushing Pacioretty at speed and with force into a lightly-padded steel beam is A-OK and probably also a hockey play.

[Toe]

And Chara's hit was both bad and dirty.

No it definitely was not.

Intent to injury shouldn't matter. You are responsible for your own actions. Even if Chara accidentally slammed Pacioretty into the post, he should receive punishment for his negligence and the severity of the incident.

That's just stupid. How would this solve anything? How would it improve player safety if they started punishing accidental contact? What's next? Stop at the blue line, look both wags to make sure there isno one nearby and then proceed?

It is a physical game. Differentiating between a bad hit and dirty hit is key.

Chara's hit wasn't accidental. I can understand that he did not mean to push Pacioretty into the post, but he did fully intend to hit him. Chara should be held responsible for not being aware of his surroundings and the situation.

Where did I say that it was accidental? I was just responding to your comment that even accidental contact should be punished which is just absurd. If Pacioretty gets right up we're not even having a discussion right now. If you acknowledge that he didn't mean to hit him into the post what are we suspending him for? Everyone hits.

We are suspending him for pushing Pacioretty into the post with enough force to seriously injure him. Whether he meant to do it or not, it happened. If I hit you with my car and hurt you, I don't get let off just because I didn't mean to hurt you. Chara made the decision to throw his check without checking his surroundings. Pacioretty wasn't roaring past Chara. If Chara has waited a second more to hit Pacioretty, then this would have been just a simple hit into the board.

He was negligent. That's the word I was looking for.

Edited March 10, 2011 by Toe

[Toe]

Pavel Kubina has been suspended.

Tampa Bay Lightning defenceman Pavel Kubina has been suspended three games for his hit to the head of Chicago Blackhawks forward David Bolland in Wednesday night's game.

Bolland was struck in the back of the head in the first period, when Kubina's elbow made contact as he was clearing a lose puck in the neutral zone. Bolland did not return to the game and the team called it an upper-body injury following the contest.

There was no infraction called on the play and head coach Joel Quenneville said Bolland would be re-evaluated on Thursday.

Kubina will forfeit $60,096.76 and won't be eligible to return until March 17 at Montreal.

Michael Frolik moved to centre in Bolland's absence, as the Blackhawks battled back to defeat the Lightning, 4-3.

I like Kubina. I thought he was our best defender when he was here. Part of the reason was because he played with a bit of an edge and was a very physical player. Still, it was a clear elbow to the head. Unlike the Chara play, which is legitimately tough to call (as seen by our argument here), Kubina's hit was an easy one for Colin Campbell to call.

[Guest mr. potato head]

No, my logic's about the hit itself, not the result of it.

Oh.

In that case, you're even wronger than ever. You're Chris Wronger, telling us that Chara pushing Pacioretty at speed and with force into a lightly-padded steel beam is A-OK and probably also a hockey play.

Not a hockey play, definitely a penalty. But the question is whether he pushed him into a beam because there was a beam there, or he pushed him and there happened to be a beam there. I'm saying it's the latter.

[sahyder1]

No, my logic's about the hit itself, not the result of it.

Oh.

In that case, you're even wronger than ever. You're Chris Wronger, telling us that Chara pushing Pacioretty at speed and with force into a lightly-padded steel beam is A-OK and probably also a hockey play.

Not a hockey play, definitely a penalty. But the question is whether he pushed him into a beam because there was a beam there, or he pushed him and there happened to be a beam there. I'm saying it's the latter.

This is my view of it. It's not like Chara waited until he got to the beam and said "gotcha!" and timed it to hit him there. There are harder hits all the time. So again, I don't buy the whole "hit him enough force to seriously injure him". It was a bad hit, not a dirty hit. I wouldn't have had an issue with a game or two suspension but anything over that would have been an overreaction after that.

The car analogy is pretty stupid too. What is acceptable on the field of play and off of it are two different things. You can't go pushing around a random pedestrian. You can push around a hockey player. Again, what is the relevance?

Edited March 10, 2011 by sahyder1

[Toe]

No, my logic's about the hit itself, not the result of it.

Oh.

In that case, you're even wronger than ever. You're Chris Wronger, telling us that Chara pushing Pacioretty at speed and with force into a lightly-padded steel beam is A-OK and probably also a hockey play.

Not a hockey play, definitely a penalty. But the question is whether he pushed him into a beam because there was a beam there, or he pushed him and there happened to be a beam there. I'm saying it's the latter.

This is my view of it. It's not like Chara waited until he got to the beam and said "gotcha!" and timed it to hit him there. There are harder hits all the time. So again, I don't buy the whole "hit him enough force to seriously injure him". It was a bad hit, not a dirty hit. I wouldn't have had an issue with a game or two suspension but anything over that would have been an overreaction after that.

The car analogy is pretty stupid too. What is acceptable on the field of play and off of it are two different things. You can't go pushing around a random pedestrian. You can push around a hockey player. Again, what is the relevance?

I knew the car analogy was a bad one.

I do see your point. I just think Chara made a mistake by not being aware of his surroundings. You have to be aware of your opponents positioning and yours, and he failed to do that. I am not against hitting. I am against players playing stupid. Chara made a stupid play by finishing his check in the position, just like how players hit people from behind. They get punished just like Chara should have been.

I am not saying Chara should have been suspended for 15 games or something. I just think he should have received some penalty like 2 games or a fine.

[sahyder1]

Ok, so we're on the same page then. Like I said before, I wouldn't have had a problem if he had gotten a game or two but people like Be who are calling this a dirty play I think are just overreacting because the guy ended up injured. I choose not to look at hits in hockey and football based on how much one player got hurt.

[TGWL]

I've played Ice hockey for 20 years, and while I'm no pro, this entire know your surroundings is such bullshit. Chara was in a race for the puck, getting beat along the boards, any damn coach would tell their player to take the body there and not give up a breakaway.

Chara got him in the face with his forarm, which was about a foot higher than the bench. There's no way Chara saw that coming. The intent wasn't there. It was a late hit, and it was worthy of a penalty, but it has nothing to do with being in control of your body and knowing your surroundings. Chara's a big guy, so I understand that him barely pushing somebody is still bad, but it was a complete freak accident.

Because Max's was injured, I think Chara should get 3-4 games, but I definitely disagree that he should be gone for the season, or that it was Intent to injure.

[Meacon Keaton]

I just saw it for the first time and my initial reaction was that it didn't seem intentional. Looked beyond brutal, though.

[Plubby]

Be may throw himself from a bridge for this, because MPH has it exactly right.

I think that if the play went down exactly as Chara would have wanted it, Pacioretty would have been squeezed into the bench and slightly flipped up at it. You see the hit all the time. But Pacioretty is fast and Chara is...well...not so much, so by the time Chara got to him, he'd run out of bench to work with and then there was the glass. I think 5 and the Game is probably valid for attempting a play that he did not have the skillset to perform.