NHL 2010/2011

[Plubby]

I agree in the abstract, c-heat, but he *was* pretty diabolical for Toronto.

[caucasianheat]

Dreadful at times, yeah. I watched probably every game he played in last season and mostly saw a guy without a lot of confidence trying really hard under a microscope. He's far from the only guy to play his career-worst hockey in Toronto which is I guess what I was really driving at. People underestimate how much of the game happens between the ears and what having no confidence does to a player.

[caucasianheat]

This one comes way off the radar: San Joe sends Dany Heatley to Minnesota in exchange for Martin Havlat.

[SeanDMan]

wut.

[Plubby]

wut.

[Guest mr. potato head]

I'm thinking it has to be a salary dump for than anything and we'll be hearing more from SJ soon. Heatley's got an extra 2.5 million of cap hit.

Don't like it as a hockey move for SJ though.

[Mountainous Cleavage]

I third the 'wut?' comment.

Had I known Heatley was on the table to be moved, I woulda been all 'Burke, get on that shit now!'

[Toe]

I third the 'wut?' comment.

Had I known Heatley was on the table to be moved, I woulda been all 'Burke, get on that shit now!'

No thank you. I hate Heatley.

[Ruki]

I third the 'wut?' comment.

Had I known Heatley was on the table to be moved, I woulda been all 'Burke, get on that shit now!'

No thank you. I hate Heatley.

I don't hate Heatley, but I don't want him anywhere near the Leafs.

[SeanDMan]

Like a boss.

[Plubby]

Wow he hasn't aged a day in 12 months!

EDIT: Which is to say nothing about the context of the whole image; Thumbs all the way up for Burkie.

[NobBe Nobbs]

I have no idea where "Brett Lebda - NHL's Worst Player" comes from because when not surrounded by more mediocrity he's actually a serviceable third pair guy.

I may not have seen him play myself, but I'm going for a wisdom of crowds thing, by which I mean you're the first person I've seen for months to describe Lebda as 'serviceable'. It's not just that he was awful, for that matter, he was taking up a spot on D that could and should have gone elsewhere, such as to Matt Lashoff. Also, he went -3 in a 9-3 win. That's historically awful. That's one of those events, like Owen Nolan's called shot, that transcends reality and reaches a new level of reputation. In years to come, Leafs fan will gather around a campfire and tell tales of Leb-Dah, the man who couldn't defend a goal to save his life.

[caucasianheat]

I may not have seen him play myself,

I may not have seen him play myself,

I may not have seen him play myself,

Again, what I said was that on a better than below average team where he's not one of many mediocre or underperforming players, there was nothing noticeably wrong with Lebda. When he was signed, lots of people had elevated hopes for the guy because he had made a good showing for himself in Detroit and convinced people he had earned more of a role. You're not going to shine playing most of your minutes with Mike Komisarek, whose own career fell into a pit once he put on the jersey. Lebda only played 40 games so it's not as though he was robbing anybody of their icetime most nights and Lashoff looks like he's staying in the minors anyway.

Something like Stempniak's 14G in 14GP the minute he got the fuck out of Toronto sort of makes my case for me. Actually, the dudes he was traded for (Steen & Colaiacovo) had the same kind of resurgence once they were out of Toronto as well.

The "wisdom of crowds" thing probably fits with the largest point of all, which is that by and large TML has the most ignorant, hyperbolic and uninformed fans in professional sports. And I say that as a confirmed fan for life. I mostly hate talking hockey IRL with Leafs fans.

In other news, the NHL continues to have its head up its ass on cap circumvention.

[Plubby]

Re: Cap circumvention: I'm fine with the Talbot deal needing re-jigging, and the Ehrhoff deal being let through, because the viable opportunity cost is not counting signing bonuses against the cap, which is baaaadbadbadbad

[Toe]

I watched every Leafs game last season. Lebda was not good. He made bad decisions with the puck, and he did so with regularity. He is a good skater, but he always seemed to be out if position and chasing the puck.

Playing with Komi didn't help, but even on the powerplay he was shakey.

I do agree with you about talking to your average Leaf fan. We Canadians love to think we know hockey, but a lot of us know fuck all. My friend told me Schenn was useless a few months ago because he didn't put up 20 goals.

Edited July 4, 2011 by Toe

[Ruki]

Owen Nolan's called shot,

The hell is that?

And is it time we opened the 2011/2012 season thread?

[caucasianheat]

Owen Nolan's called shot,

The hell is that?

The All Star game where Nolan pointed over Dominik Hasek's shoulder on the breakaway and picked that corner for a hat trick.

(@ 40 seconds)

[NobBe Nobbs]

Again, what I said was that on a better than below average team where he's not one of many mediocre or underperforming players, there was nothing noticeably wrong with Lebda. When he was signed, lots of people had elevated hopes for the guy because he had made a good showing for himself in Detroit and convinced people he had earned more of a role. You're not going to shine playing most of your minutes with Mike Komisarek, whose own career fell into a pit once he put on the jersey. Lebda only played 40 games so it's not as though he was robbing anybody of their icetime most nights and Lashoff looks like he's staying in the minors anyway.

Except he was on a below average team - although not really one with as many 'underperforming' players as you might want to think - and as Toe has just said, he was bad. I haven't seen him play, but I'm a regular on a number of Leaf fansites (particularly PPP) and whenever Lebda played, it was rare to not see people complaining about his performance. By and large, the Maple Leaf fanbase is full of idiots but it is phenomenally dumb to treat everybody who's a Maple Leaf fan as an idiot because of it. Most of the people at the SBNation blogs are fairly sharp, especially on the higher-traffic blogs because people with opinions that are uninformed or objectively wrong tend to get straightened out.

Something like Stempniak's 14G in 14GP the minute he got the fuck out of Toronto sort of makes my case for me

For example, if you posted this over there, you'd get crucified. And rightly so. Stempniak, right, Stempniak's shooting percentage in Phoenix over that 18-game period was 29.2 - 14 goals off 48 shots. In the 82 games he played with Phoenix last year, it was 9.5. Basically, if you want to argue that we were the problem and Stempniak is a 29.2% goal scorer, you should have no trouble explaining why another year in the same environment lead to a drop-off of almost twenty points.

[Guest mr. potato head]

I'm only making this post so Be doesn't get the last one.

[caucasianheat]

Tell me more blogfacts Be, I watched 200 or more NHL games last season to your ostensible zero. Wannabe journalists on sbnation don't tell me what to think and neither does arbitrary math like shooting % because it's just manipulatable numbers free of any real meaning. I watch games and make my valuations that way. It's blatantly narrow and reductive to boil performance down to figures instead of actually watching and analyzing a game.

My opinion on Lebda (whose Toronto tenure I called "dreadful" mind you and never defended) was made having seen him countless times as a Red Wing including live in person for several years before he was with the Leafs. All I ever said was that the hate for him in Toronto was overblown and that his play there didn't fully indicate what abilities he has. I never suggested every Leafs fan was an idiot like it was exclusive, it's probably closer to 95% because that's about the number of hockey fans in general who haven't a fucking clue in my mind. Not casting aspersions on anyone here as I generally enjoy the discussion.

Suffice to say you and I are analyzing the same thing in pretty much diametric ways. I might be crucified by your precious bloggers for suggesting that players are elated to get out of an oppressive media circus and can unexpectedly break out and deliver career bests (again, the kind of intangible stuff that isn't represented in numbers), but endorsing yourself as an authority and telling other posters they "don't actually know anything" without ever watching a game yourself is more shockingly obtuse than anything I've written, surely. Feel free to PM me, I just couldn't stand the thought of you getting in before close with all this claptrap.