Pens and Papers

[EWB's Best Poster.]

Advanced race guide has a section for that. I'll check your numbers for ya.

[Ruki]

So, in Pathfinder, how do you determine how many attacks a monster gets? Like, the Kraken...

Melee 2 arms +26 (2d6+10/19–20 plus grab), 8 tentacles +24 (1d8+5 plus grab), bite +26 (2d8+10)

It wouldn't have 11 attacks, right? It would just be either: 2 arms, 8 tentacles (that seems like a bit much, but it is a CR 18), or a bite?

Or...the fungal crawler...

Melee bite +6 (1d6+2 plus poison), 2 claws +6 (1d4+2)

One bite attack OR two claw attacks...right?

[KONGO]

I believe so. Don't see why those rules would have changed from regular D&D rules. Plus, don't monsters still have to use full attack to do more than one attack in a turn?

Also, you know there's the Pathfinder SRD online, right? http://www.d20pfsrd.com

[Ruki]

I use that site religiously, just wouldn't know where to look on there to find the answer, and I figured asking one of the more seasoned DM vets would be quicker

[EWB's Best Poster.]

When I'm home I'll help you with this ruki.

[OctoberRaven]

I'm pretty sure it's one of the options if it's a single attack action, but full attack, it's EVERYTHING.

That being said, I'm going by 3.5e and not Pathfinder.

[EWB's Best Poster.]

Natural Attacks

Most creatures possess one or more natural attacks (attacks made without a weapon). These attacks fall into one of two categories, primary and secondary attacks. Primary attacks are made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and add the creature’s full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature’s base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one. If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type.

Some creatures treat one or more of their attacks differently, such as Dragons, which always receive 1-1/2 times their Strength bonus on damage rolls with their bite attack. These exceptions are noted in the creature’s description.

Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type.

Some creatures do not have natural attacks. These creatures can make unarmed strikes just like humans do. See Table: Natural Attacks by Size for typical damage values for natural attacks by creature size.

Format: bite +5 (1d6+1), 2 claws +5 (1d4+2), 4 tentacles +0 (1d4+1); Location: Melee and Ranged.

So using the example given the creature has a bite, 2 claws and 4 tentacles. When you move and attack you get one attack, just like any player. When you have a full attack this monster here unleashes a flurry of 7 attacks.

When you attack with the one, you choose which attack you are using. It is LIKELY a primary attack, although you can choose to make it a secondary attack if you wish. The secondary attack will still suffer -5, but maybe it has a cool additional like constrict or drain that you want to use instead so its risk vs reward.

Otherwise, if it ONLY had tentacles, they would ALWAYS be primary since that is its only kind of attack. Since this one has more than one, it isn't.

Anything else to clear that up?

[Ruki]

So, with a full round action a Kraken gets 11 attacks? Holy crap!

And the Fungal Crawler, with a full round attack would get the bite, followed by the two claws at -5 (since it would be the secondary attack)?

[EWB's Best Poster.]

A kraken is something that can destroy fleets. Yeah, it gets 11 attacks.

As for the other question, no.

You see, a bite and a claw are both primary attacks.

Basically, an attack by a natural attack from a monster is either primary or secondary. One is it go to weapon, the other is an attack they use less often.

Primary attacks (as you can see in the example above) use the full highest attack bonus. Secondary uses 5 less than that, and with less strength damage.

So claws and bites are both primary and something like horns are secondary. (like if you had an orc barbarian that could grow horns it would attack at -5 of his highest attack in addition to all his normal ones and use less of his considerable strength)

I know what you are thinking, "but something like a bull uses horns. Isn't that a primary attack?" and you would be right. If that is the ONLY attack that it has, it becomes primary AND uses a LOT of its strength bonus (as you can see above in the rules section as well.) This is why standing in front of a bull is a bad thing. (keep in mind its just an example I didnt look up bulls)

So which are which? Simple. The books tell you right in the back when you look them up. Bites are this, claws are that. If you ever pick up an attack thats natural as a power for a PC, it even tells you there too. Like horns or a witch using her hair. And they are in addition to all your normal attacks unless thats impossible (like it talks about having claw attacks but you're holding a sword.)

So look in your beastiary. For the most part they do the math for you. All you need to worry about is that when you move and attack in the same turn you get one attack. If you have more than one primary attack (like your crawler) you choose. It would likely be the bite. Only if you full attack do the rest of the attacks come in. You can even see they enjoy the same attack bonus. (+6) so they are all primary attacks. He just bites a little harder.

There IS one ability called pounce which lets you leap on someone and still attack with ALL your attacks. Like a lion. Look for that, as it makes your monster quite deadly.

[Ruki]

So, safe to assume that in most cases when a monster lists more than one attack, if both have the highest BAB you can only choose one....and if it lists two, and one is usually five less than the highest, both can be used? And if that is correct, and the monster has more than one secondary attack...do they get them all, or just one?

And when a PC gets a secondary attack like a bite, they get that (with a full round attack) at -5 from their highest BAB?

This is what happens when most of the games you play in are super low level, haha. Thanks for answering all my questions! I'm finally throwing something other than bandits at my players this weekend and want to be 100% sure I understand the monsters.

[KONGO]

No. If you move and attack, you only get one attack, and it should be a primary one. If you use full attack, you get all your attacks, primary or no.

[EWB's Best Poster.]

Exactly what Kong said.

And yes to the PC with a secondary attack.

Just attack once with a move then attack, or all if you're doing all.

Unless it has Pounce. Some things can do all attacks AND move. Lions, some dinos...

[Ruki]

Cool, thanks guys. Sorry for all the dumb questions.

[EWB's Best Poster.]

They aren't even slightly dumb. Its about how effective a monster is in a fight. Kind of important for DND.

[Ruki]

.....blah. one of the players is just doing nothing. Staying behind the party. Not going in the cave with everyone else. Just ...doing nothing

[EWB's Best Poster.]

Ambush him. Have weaker enemies following you all wait for him to stay behind. He will run to the group.

[thatblindgeye]

I probably already posted this question in this topic, but I can't remember, so:

How do you DM guys handle area and close attacks versus ranged attacks when it comes to actual attack and damage rolls? Do you have players roll separate attacks for every target with ranged and one attack for all targets for area/close, one set damage for all targets, or...? I mainly ask because our group tends to have any attack and damage roll be separate for every target, and I might do something different to that when I DM.

[KONGO]

I don't encounter too many area spells (running a no-magic game at the moment), but I think I'd use one attack & damage roll for all involved. At most I'd have the attack stay the same for everyone and damage vary. Remember, everybody's usually got a save to make with area spells, so that takes care of some of the individual effect stuff.

And now for a question of my own: does anybody know of a spell that confers spell resistance or something similar off-hand? Haven't found too much with a quick skim over the spell list but I could definitely be missing something. Would prefer something from a core rulebook, the core 3 for D&D 3.5 or the main handbook for Pathfinder, but I'll look at a third-party if that's all anyone knows of. The reason I ask for a spell is because I want to use it for a magic item, want some kind of guide on how strong = what level.

[EWB's Best Poster.]

Most AOE attacks dont have attack rolls, they more likely have saves to avoid being in the area. Just do one damage roll and let them all resolve how they avoid the damage if at all on their own. If you do one for each then a save for each it takes too much time.

[theburninator77]

I'm glad I found this topic. Started playing pathfinder about 18 months ago, play with a more casual group who are more generally interested in character devlopment than battling. It's tons of fun.