EWR 2015 Stats Update: September ***PLEASE USE SPOILER TAGS***

[TheWho87]

You then run into the problem of what happens if someone starts using the name Murphy, as before I'd suggest if its just for the alter egos add the promotion on the end of the name and then the user can rename them to just use that name for their game and it will not effect other records.

[Pizza]

It's not absurd, there are several wrestlers with shared names through out and cause problems with keeping up with the renames and pic renames.

Dixie was shared whether it was Special K's Little Dixie or Dixie from Dory Funk Jr.'s BANG Promotion (and to an extent Dixie Chick) Bill used Little Dixie for Dixie because he had alter ego and Dixie BANG didn't, despite ONE, Little DIxie was far more known and the Little was not used in years.

Drago is shared between a little known Drago from the indies, a Drago in AAA (the one from Lucha Underground) and one who now is Dragon Lee II.

Dragon Lee should be shared by the current Mistico (II) and the current Dragon Lee (II) but Dragon Lee isn't in the game (despite stats being suggested for him several months ago several times.)

Magnus was shared between Magnus Von Steele, Brutus Magnus and Magnus from CMLL.

Mistico is shared between the two CMLL Misticos (one is now Mzyztesis in AAA) and the former Hunico (though through a different spelling.)

Sin Cara is shared between the two Sin Caras.

Suicide was shared between the at least 4 TNA Suicides (Kazarian, Daniels, Kiyoshi and Manik) and a guy from the indies most people never heard of.

Super Nova was shared between Nova, Mike Segura and the Super Nova from Lucha Libre USA.

Tara was shared between Boss Tara and Victoria.

These are the ones I have off the top of my head.

What I'm getting out of this is that the roster is bloated as hell and needs purging or blowing up. It's so bloated that general maintenance takes so long that Kevin Owens takes 6 months to get renamed. TNA Murphy doesn't need to still be Murphy. 

As far as what happens if somebody else starts using the name that a WWE wrestler is currently using? The WWE guy gets to keep it. Obviously. Cross that bridge when it gets there. Amato and Albert should be deleted. If they start wrestling again, add them back. It's easier when the database isn't bloated with three Dragos. 

[Gazz]

Yeah, Bill's updates are a cluster at this point. I think it's more a case of misplaced effort rather than a lack of it, but stuff like this

 

Blake Murphy can't be renamed Murphy as Mikal Judas already went by Murphy in TNA.

is just absurd. Somebody needs to blow it up and start over.

It's not absurd, there are several wrestlers with shared names through out and cause problems with keeping up with the renames and pic renames.

So what happens if WWE signs a woman from the indies, gives her the NXT name of 'Erin Bray' and she blows up and becomes the hottest thing in wrestling? Does she become 'Erin Bray WWE' in the database because some model who showed up once 13 years ago already has that name?

[Walker]

What is the Alter Ego part of the database even for? I mean, when I played EWR way back when it was so if I wanted to sign someone but I only knew a gimmick they used to go by I could look it up. I don't see how that is necessary though when Wikipedia is a thing. 

I think ultimately to problem with the database is not so much that it is bloated it is that it is cluttered, because that is what happens when you start with a base and only add stuff for several years. The absolute mess of the alter ego situation is an illustration of that, as is the relationships that don't really matter and the tag teams with 3 experience. Even if they were relevant things to add to the database before they might not be relevant today.

If this rebuild goes ahead the focus should be on making it easy to play as a real-life update. That means what is happening NOW should take priority over everything else. This means if there is a Murphy, that Murphy is the one in NXT. 

[Lint]

You then run into the problem of what happens if someone starts using the name Murphy, as before I'd suggest if its just for the alter egos add the promotion on the end of the name and then the user can rename them to just use that name for their game and it will not effect other records.

But someone is using it.  This guy in NXT.  Shouldn't the guy currently using it take priority over the guy who hasn't used the name in 4 years?

[apsham]

The what-ifs are staggering. I can understand wanting to have a complete record of everything.. but that's not what EWR is for. That's what wrestlingdb and cagematch are for.

[Darth Hole]

I think I'd start by removing some of the celebrity types that had short runs in wrestling but are long gone. Like Danny Bonaduce, Dustin Diamond, Jenna Morasca, Dennis Rodman, all the Jersey Shore girl, etc...

[mkpunk]

Yeah, Bill's updates are a cluster at this point. I think it's more a case of misplaced effort rather than a lack of it, but stuff like this

 

Blake Murphy can't be renamed Murphy as Mikal Judas already went by Murphy in TNA.

is just absurd. Somebody needs to blow it up and start over.

It's not absurd, there are several wrestlers with shared names through out and cause problems with keeping up with the renames and pic renames.

So what happens if WWE signs a woman from the indies, gives her the NXT name of 'Erin Bray' and she blows up and becomes the hottest thing in wrestling? Does she become 'Erin Bray WWE' in the database because some model who showed up once 13 years ago already has that name?

Well yeah I mean there are some in there who never even shown up on a show other than some video package... FYI, Tara had that issue in 2009 when Victoria took the name after debuting in TNA and there was one on the indies in MCW. Luckily that Tara had an alter ego to mitigate the issue. An Erin Bray who only has Erin as an alter ego would cause more issues because she "could return."

What is the Alter Ego part of the database even for? I mean, when I played EWR way back when it was so if I wanted to sign someone but I only knew a gimmick they used to go by I could look it up. I don't see how that is necessary though when Wikipedia is a thing. 

I think ultimately to problem with the database is not so much that it is bloated it is that it is cluttered, because that is what happens when you start with a base and only add stuff for several years. The absolute mess of the alter ego situation is an illustration of that, as is the relationships that don't really matter and the tag teams with 3 experience. Even if they were relevant things to add to the database before they might not be relevant today.

If this rebuild goes ahead the focus should be on making it easy to play as a real-life update. That means what is happening NOW should take priority over everything else. This means if there is a Murphy, that Murphy is the one in NXT. 

The alter ego part was to allow for say Matt Borne to have the ability to be found no matter if he was in the game as Doink The Clown or Big Josh. It still is relevant so you can check if a name is used (how I use it sometimes) and looking for a worker (the Matt Borne case.)

I agree with the tag teams in particularly the WWE tag champs that never had an official team name like say Booker and RVD or London and Kidman. A Kidman/Rey would be safe though due to higher EXP and a team finish (the powerbomb/Seated Senton.)

You then run into the problem of what happens if someone starts using the name Murphy, as before I'd suggest if its just for the alter egos add the promotion on the end of the name and then the user can rename them to just use that name for their game and it will not effect other records.

But someone is using it.  This guy in NXT.  Shouldn't the guy currently using it take priority over the guy who hasn't used the name in 4 years?

And look at TNA, they do have a habit of bringing guys back years later under the same name as before or they may go back to name years later on the indies because they are more known as that than say Mikael Judas.

The what-ifs are staggering. I can understand wanting to have a complete record of everything.. but that's not what EWR is for. That's what wrestlingdb and cagematch are for.

Those weren't really in existence today and could still cause problems. Say I want to bring back Mikael Judas under the name Murphy  for a TNA game but because Buddy Murphy is renamed Murphy because Mikael Judas "hasn't used the name in 4 years." I can say the same for Magnus CMLL in a CMLL game if I don't want to change his name.

I think I'd start by removing some of the celebrity types that had short runs in wrestling but are long gone. Like Danny Bonaduce, Dustin Diamond, Jenna Morasca, Dennis Rodman, all the Jersey Shore girl, etc...

I agree, but that is a drop in the bucket with some of the unlikely to return retirees. Take Thumbtack Jack for instance, I believe he had finger servered off of him or some sort of hand injury to remove him from wrestling. He isn't very likely returning to the playable area of the game.

In other news:

Rory Mondo should be renamed Rory Gulak and added back to CZW. He has recently returned to CZW teaming with his brother Drew as The Amazing Gulaks.

[Lint]

Yeah, Bill's updates are a cluster at this point. I think it's more a case of misplaced effort rather than a lack of it, but stuff like this

 

Blake Murphy can't be renamed Murphy as Mikal Judas already went by Murphy in TNA.

is just absurd. Somebody needs to blow it up and start over.

It's not absurd, there are several wrestlers with shared names through out and cause problems with keeping up with the renames and pic renames.

So what happens if WWE signs a woman from the indies, gives her the NXT name of 'Erin Bray' and she blows up and becomes the hottest thing in wrestling? Does she become 'Erin Bray WWE' in the database because some model who showed up once 13 years ago already has that name?

Well yeah I mean there are some in there who never even shown up on a show other than some video package... FYI, Tara had that issue in 2009 when Victoria took the name after debuting in TNA and there was one on the indies in MCW. Luckily that Tara had an alter ego to mitigate the issue. An Erin Bray who only has Erin as an alter ego would cause more issues because she "could return."

What is the Alter Ego part of the database even for? I mean, when I played EWR way back when it was so if I wanted to sign someone but I only knew a gimmick they used to go by I could look it up. I don't see how that is necessary though when Wikipedia is a thing. 

I think ultimately to problem with the database is not so much that it is bloated it is that it is cluttered, because that is what happens when you start with a base and only add stuff for several years. The absolute mess of the alter ego situation is an illustration of that, as is the relationships that don't really matter and the tag teams with 3 experience. Even if they were relevant things to add to the database before they might not be relevant today.

If this rebuild goes ahead the focus should be on making it easy to play as a real-life update. That means what is happening NOW should take priority over everything else. This means if there is a Murphy, that Murphy is the one in NXT. 

The alter ego part was to allow for say Matt Borne to have the ability to be found no matter if he was in the game as Doink The Clown or Big Josh. It still is relevant so you can check if a name is used (how I use it sometimes) and looking for a worker (the Matt Borne case.)

I agree with the tag teams in particularly the WWE tag champs that never had an official team name like say Booker and RVD or London and Kidman. A Kidman/Rey would be safe though due to higher EXP and a team finish (the powerbomb/Seated Senton.)

You then run into the problem of what happens if someone starts using the name Murphy, as before I'd suggest if its just for the alter egos add the promotion on the end of the name and then the user can rename them to just use that name for their game and it will not effect other records.

But someone is using it.  This guy in NXT.  Shouldn't the guy currently using it take priority over the guy who hasn't used the name in 4 years?

And look at TNA, they do have a habit of bringing guys back years later under the same name as before or they may go back to name years later on the indies because they are more known as that than say Mikael Judas.

But according to cagematch, he went back to using Mikael Judas upon leaving TNA, and hasn't used it since.  Again, why is someone in the largest company in the world, who is currently using the name, take a back seat to someone who had been in the 2nd/3rd largest, left it, and hasn't used the name since?

[Darth Hole]

 

I think I'd start by removing some of the celebrity types that had short runs in wrestling but are long gone. Like Danny Bonaduce, Dustin Diamond, Jenna Morasca, Dennis Rodman, all the Jersey Shore girl, etc...

I agree, but that is a drop in the bucket with some of the unlikely to return retirees. Take Thumbtack Jack for instance, I believe he had finger servered off of him or some sort of hand injury to remove him from wrestling. He isn't very likely returning to the playable area of the game.

I'd start with the celebrity types because those are the most obvious. Yeah there's plenty more that can go, like Thumbtack Jack or someone that is clearly inactive for the foreseeable future.

Hell if we get a good list going, I'll do it myself.

[mkpunk]

Yeah, Bill's updates are a cluster at this point. I think it's more a case of misplaced effort rather than a lack of it, but stuff like this

 

Blake Murphy can't be renamed Murphy as Mikal Judas already went by Murphy in TNA.

is just absurd. Somebody needs to blow it up and start over.

It's not absurd, there are several wrestlers with shared names through out and cause problems with keeping up with the renames and pic renames.

So what happens if WWE signs a woman from the indies, gives her the NXT name of 'Erin Bray' and she blows up and becomes the hottest thing in wrestling? Does she become 'Erin Bray WWE' in the database because some model who showed up once 13 years ago already has that name?

Well yeah I mean there are some in there who never even shown up on a show other than some video package... FYI, Tara had that issue in 2009 when Victoria took the name after debuting in TNA and there was one on the indies in MCW. Luckily that Tara had an alter ego to mitigate the issue. An Erin Bray who only has Erin as an alter ego would cause more issues because she "could return."

What is the Alter Ego part of the database even for? I mean, when I played EWR way back when it was so if I wanted to sign someone but I only knew a gimmick they used to go by I could look it up. I don't see how that is necessary though when Wikipedia is a thing. 

I think ultimately to problem with the database is not so much that it is bloated it is that it is cluttered, because that is what happens when you start with a base and only add stuff for several years. The absolute mess of the alter ego situation is an illustration of that, as is the relationships that don't really matter and the tag teams with 3 experience. Even if they were relevant things to add to the database before they might not be relevant today.

If this rebuild goes ahead the focus should be on making it easy to play as a real-life update. That means what is happening NOW should take priority over everything else. This means if there is a Murphy, that Murphy is the one in NXT. 

The alter ego part was to allow for say Matt Borne to have the ability to be found no matter if he was in the game as Doink The Clown or Big Josh. It still is relevant so you can check if a name is used (how I use it sometimes) and looking for a worker (the Matt Borne case.)

I agree with the tag teams in particularly the WWE tag champs that never had an official team name like say Booker and RVD or London and Kidman. A Kidman/Rey would be safe though due to higher EXP and a team finish (the powerbomb/Seated Senton.)

You then run into the problem of what happens if someone starts using the name Murphy, as before I'd suggest if its just for the alter egos add the promotion on the end of the name and then the user can rename them to just use that name for their game and it will not effect other records.

But someone is using it.  This guy in NXT.  Shouldn't the guy currently using it take priority over the guy who hasn't used the name in 4 years?

And look at TNA, they do have a habit of bringing guys back years later under the same name as before or they may go back to name years later on the indies because they are more known as that than say Mikael Judas.

But according to cagematch, he went back to using Mikael Judas upon leaving TNA, and hasn't used it since.  Again, why is someone in the largest company in the world, who is currently using the name, take a back seat to someone who had been in the 2nd/3rd largest, left it, and hasn't used the name since?

 

And what if he does all of a sudden after we rename Buddy Murphy to Murphy? That is partly why Bill only does the diva first names rarely because of how common the names are. Emma and Paige for instance aren't really that common however Nikki is. Like it breaks the game to see Natalya as Natalya Neidhart.

 

I think I'd start by removing some of the celebrity types that had short runs in wrestling but are long gone. Like Danny Bonaduce, Dustin Diamond, Jenna Morasca, Dennis Rodman, all the Jersey Shore girl, etc...

I agree, but that is a drop in the bucket with some of the unlikely to return retirees. Take Thumbtack Jack for instance, I believe he had finger servered off of him or some sort of hand injury to remove him from wrestling. He isn't very likely returning to the playable area of the game.

I'd start with the celebrity types because those are the most obvious. Yeah there's plenty more that can go, like Thumbtack Jack or someone that is clearly inactive for the foreseeable future.

Hell if we get a good list going, I'll do it myself.

Of the others, I can't guess on any true Thumbtack Jacks off the top of my head, maybe Trueno, Astro de Plata and Billy el Malo. Both have only wrestled like once in the past two years due to various injuries. There can be more but these are the ones that stick out to me.

While looking into Billy El Malo, I am not sure how true this is but it seems as if he and Faby Apache are no longer together so if he isn't removed, at least remove the love relationship. 

[KingOfSwing]

How about we rename Mikael Judas's Murphy alterego to Murphy TNA and rename Buddy Murphy to Murphy.

[Lint]

Yeah, Bill's updates are a cluster at this point. I think it's more a case of misplaced effort rather than a lack of it, but stuff like this

 

Blake Murphy can't be renamed Murphy as Mikal Judas already went by Murphy in TNA.

is just absurd. Somebody needs to blow it up and start over.

It's not absurd, there are several wrestlers with shared names through out and cause problems with keeping up with the renames and pic renames.

So what happens if WWE signs a woman from the indies, gives her the NXT name of 'Erin Bray' and she blows up and becomes the hottest thing in wrestling? Does she become 'Erin Bray WWE' in the database because some model who showed up once 13 years ago already has that name?

Well yeah I mean there are some in there who never even shown up on a show other than some video package... FYI, Tara had that issue in 2009 when Victoria took the name after debuting in TNA and there was one on the indies in MCW. Luckily that Tara had an alter ego to mitigate the issue. An Erin Bray who only has Erin as an alter ego would cause more issues because she "could return."

What is the Alter Ego part of the database even for? I mean, when I played EWR way back when it was so if I wanted to sign someone but I only knew a gimmick they used to go by I could look it up. I don't see how that is necessary though when Wikipedia is a thing. 

I think ultimately to problem with the database is not so much that it is bloated it is that it is cluttered, because that is what happens when you start with a base and only add stuff for several years. The absolute mess of the alter ego situation is an illustration of that, as is the relationships that don't really matter and the tag teams with 3 experience. Even if they were relevant things to add to the database before they might not be relevant today.

If this rebuild goes ahead the focus should be on making it easy to play as a real-life update. That means what is happening NOW should take priority over everything else. This means if there is a Murphy, that Murphy is the one in NXT. 

The alter ego part was to allow for say Matt Borne to have the ability to be found no matter if he was in the game as Doink The Clown or Big Josh. It still is relevant so you can check if a name is used (how I use it sometimes) and looking for a worker (the Matt Borne case.)

I agree with the tag teams in particularly the WWE tag champs that never had an official team name like say Booker and RVD or London and Kidman. A Kidman/Rey would be safe though due to higher EXP and a team finish (the powerbomb/Seated Senton.)

You then run into the problem of what happens if someone starts using the name Murphy, as before I'd suggest if its just for the alter egos add the promotion on the end of the name and then the user can rename them to just use that name for their game and it will not effect other records.

But someone is using it.  This guy in NXT.  Shouldn't the guy currently using it take priority over the guy who hasn't used the name in 4 years?

And look at TNA, they do have a habit of bringing guys back years later under the same name as before or they may go back to name years later on the indies because they are more known as that than say Mikael Judas.

But according to cagematch, he went back to using Mikael Judas upon leaving TNA, and hasn't used it since.  Again, why is someone in the largest company in the world, who is currently using the name, take a back seat to someone who had been in the 2nd/3rd largest, left it, and hasn't used the name since?

 

And what if he does all of a sudden after we rename Buddy Murphy to Murphy? That is partly why Bill only does the diva first names rarely because of how common the names are. Emma and Paige for instance aren't really that common however Nikki is. Like it breaks the game to see Natalya as Natalya Neidhart.

Then give the more likely to be recognized WWE NXT Murphy the name?  Seriously, your saying a guy who hasn't used the name in 4 years should be given preference, while a guy CURRENTLY using it, in what might be the 2nd largest promotion in the world (NXT sold out the Barkleys Center) should be given 2nd string status.  It doesn't make sense at all. 

 

If Mikael Judas decides one day "Hey, I want to be known as Murphy after my TNA run" 4 years after the fact, then name him Murphy NWA:YTSIGO or whatever.  Until then, the NXT Murphy is the one who more people will recognize....kinda sad when TNA had a TV deal, but whatever

[Walker]

And that is if NXT's Murphy is still using that name. If he has a different name at that point and TNA brings in Judas as Murphy again then he can be called Murphy. It really isn't hard. The guy currently using the name gets the name. It isn't going to confuse anyone because once again Wikipedia is a thing and funnily enough searching "Murphy TNA" brings up Mikael Judas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

[apsham]

How about mkpunk just keeps using the Bill updates, inflating them like a balloon and the rest of us just do our thing?

[Lineker]

I hope Bill does continue. I'm only planning on churning one of these out quarterly.

[Gazz]

You can't delete Danny Bonaduce, he's got shooting ticked and he's going to be the lynchpin of my new PRIDE Resurrected diary.

[Skummy]

I think people defending alter-egos are getting hung up on the idea that they serve any practical purpose in the game - this isn't like TEW where an AI company can hire Mick Foley and potentially use him under that name or Cactus Jack based on the alter-egos in the database, it's solely an aide memoire for the player, something which can easily be replaced by cagematch, by Wikipedia, by a quick Google search, or any number of other means quite readily available to anyone playing this game in 2015. 

When it comes down to "accurate stats" or "inaccurate because we have to use the alter-ego feature for no reason other than because it's there", I know which side of the fence I'm going to fall on. The feature can be a useful tool, I suppose, but it shouldn't be allowed to be that at the expense of the quality of the game or the accuracy of a stats update.

 

I started looking through the August update just out of curiosity last week, and some of the decisions in there are baffling - presumably because it's built on years and years worth of data, of assumptions, and of perplexing, forgotten crowd-sourced decisions. There are guys who have never been known to train anyone who don't have "trainer" booked while guys who do it as a full-time job don't. Guys who have never announced have "announcer" ticked. Marty Jannetty has "shooting ability" ticked. Hell, I'd go out on a limb and say that between 75-90% of the workers with "shooting ability" ticked shouldn't have it. There's just a thousand simple, stupid mistakes or inexplicable choices being made in there that have been overlooked for months, if not years, presumably because the whole database is so bloated it would be impossible to go through and fix them all. And that's just from looking at a couple of hundred workers, never mind the other 5000+, or hundreds of tag teams between two random guys who tagged together twice ten years ago - that is, unless anyone's in a hurry to re-form the tag teams of JBL & Cannonball Grizzly or Chris Jericho & Gedo - the literally thousands of relationships that slow the game to a crawl and, for the most part, do not need to be there or are grossly inaccurate, and often both, or the constant refusal to ever remove anyone from the database. I'm not talking about just retired wrestlers-turned-staff like Jason Albert, Sara Amato, Corey Graves, Drake Younger or Jimmy Jacobs, or even guys like DJ Skittlez who had a three year career a decade ago, or the aforementioned celebrities, or the likes of Brooke Hogan who were never wrestling personalities in the first place; I'm talking about the likes of a wheelchair bound Axl Rotten or Bobby Heenan who physically cannot possibly be involved in a wrestling show in any capacity that EWR can simulate. 

 

Meanwhile, and again because of how utterly bloated these updates have become, you end up with oversights and mistakes that you simply wouldn't see if it was of a manageable size and optimised for gameplay and accuracy rather than irrational completism. 

Just going on the August update - I don't know much was changed for September - the CHIKARA roster is grossly inaccurate, with guys like Jigsaw still on the roster despite not having wrestled there for over a year, while - for example - Drew Gulak is nowhere to be seen, and prominent members of the roster, such as Shynron, Kevin Condron, Colony X-Treme Force, don't even exist in the game despite there being literally thousands of wrestlers in the game that I'd wager nobody on this board has ever seen wrestle, heard of, or could find footage of. And that's just picking on one promotion - I'd assume, based on that, that other indie promotions of similar or smaller size will be similarly inaccurate. 

[brenchill]

Has anyone thought about completely removing the 'relationships' part of these updates?  They serve no purpose in the game at all.  All they do is bloat the data.

[Skummy]

They serve a purpose if used correctly - it can add to the game to have to consider a worker's morale should you fire a close friend or family member, or what-have-you - but they bloat the data, slow things down, and actually detract from the playing experience when you add a "friendship" relationship based on every passing comment ever made in a shoot interview.