Sweet Christmas, It's a Luke Cage Netflix Series Thread

[Benji]

Final thoughts (end season one spoilers)...

Spoiler

The first half was significantly better. Diamondback was a terrible villain, by far the worst of the four, and Cottonmouth was the best and most complex, which makes it frustrating how early Cottonmouth died and the fact Diamondback had to carry half the season when he did not have the depth at all to carry it. Mariah and Shades always felt like they were in his shadow rather than shining in the space they deserved as better characters.

The season was about three episodes too long, most of that being cut from the second half. Even with those changes though it would still be the weakest entry in the Marvel Netflix series' so far though.

That's not to say it wasn't a good show. It was genuinely entertaining and it had some terrific characters, probably the best secondary/tertiary cast of the MCU TV shows. Shades in particular basically played every level of villain through the film and Theo Rossi really made the role.

Misty Knight overcame initial problems in episode one and became the most interesting protagonist, in fact if anything I felt like this was her show by the end, Simone Missick deserves real kudos for her work (could have done without the gaudy quasi Sherlock/Hannibal/whatever "mind palace" scenes though).

Music was absolutely killer. They absolutely nailed that beat.

Basically, a good show that could have been paced better than it was.

 

[Ruki]

16 hours ago, Benji said:

Final thoughts (end season one spoilers)...

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The first half was significantly better. Diamondback was a terrible villain, by far the worst of the four, and Cottonmouth was the best and most complex, which makes it frustrating how early Cottonmouth died and the fact Diamondback had to carry half the season when he did not have the depth at all to carry it. Mariah and Shades always felt like they were in his shadow rather than shining in the space they deserved as better characters.

The season was about three episodes too long, most of that being cut from the second half. Even with those changes though it would still be the weakest entry in the Marvel Netflix series' so far though.

That's not to say it wasn't a good show. It was genuinely entertaining and it had some terrific characters, probably the best secondary/tertiary cast of the MCU TV shows. Shades in particular basically played every level of villain through the film and Theo Rossi really made the role.

Misty Knight overcame initial problems in episode one and became the most interesting protagonist, in fact if anything I felt like this was her show by the end, Simone Missick deserves real kudos for her work (could have done without the gaudy quasi Sherlock/Hannibal/whatever "mind palace" scenes though).

Music was absolutely killer. They absolutely nailed that beat.

Basically, a good show that could have been paced better than it was.

 

I'm just so happy that Shades lives! I hope he shows up in Defenders.

 

Overall? Loved the show. It wasn't my favorite of the Netflix series, but it was still fantastic. 

[Josh]

11 hours ago, Ruki said:

 

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I'm just so happy that Shades lives! I hope he shows up in Defenders.

 

 

Overall? Loved the show. It wasn't my favorite of the Netflix series, but it was still fantastic. 

Spoiler

 

I feel like Mariah, Shades, Fisk, and Turk will all end up in Defenders. A Fisk/Mariah alliance could easily be on the table, and Diamondback could be a wildcard in the mix. Plus Elektra's back out there. And Jesus, with Castle out there Defenders could be an all-out war between at least 4 powerful entities.

But hell, I'll be watching and probably loving the hell out of it no matter what.

 

Looking at all of the Marvel Netlix series so far, I'd rank them:

1. Jessica Jones

2. Luke Cage

3. Daredevil, Season 1

4. Daredevil, Season 2

[Ruki]

6 minutes ago, fhqwhjosh said:

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I feel like Mariah, Shades, Fisk, and Turk will all end up in Defenders. A Fisk/Mariah alliance could easily be on the table, and Diamondback could be a wildcard in the mix. Plus Elektra's back out there. And Jesus, with Castle out there Defenders could be an all-out war between at least 4 powerful entities.

But hell, I'll be watching and probably loving the hell out of it no matter what.

 

Looking at all of the Marvel Netlix series so far, I'd rank them:

1. Jessica Jones

2. Luke Cage

3. Daredevil, Season 1

4. Daredevil, Season 2

A Fisk/Shades/Mariah team up would be fun. I think I prefer Turk to have no real affiliation with any group...especially because he hasn't been a threat and would just devalue them in my mind. Also? I'm kinda meh on Diamondback coming back. I felt like he was a weak villain.

 

For me, it's probably:

1. Daredevil 1

2. Jessica Jones

3. Daredevil 2

4. Luke Cage

 

But again...that's not me saying I didn't enjoy Luke Cage. It was great, definitely in the top 10 for shows for me this year.

[Josh]

Yeah, even the worst of the bunch is still miles ahead of most TV right now. It'll be tough to maintain their track record, but doing these shorter seasons so far apart (especially for each individual series) is a great strategy to keep up the quality.

[Benjamin]

8 hours ago, Ruki said:

 

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A Fisk/Shades/Mariah team up would be fun. I think I prefer Turk to have no real affiliation with any group...especially because he hasn't been a threat and would just devalue them in my mind. Also? I'm kinda meh on Diamondback coming back. I felt like he was a weak villain.

 

 

For me, it's probably:

1. Daredevil 1

2. Jessica Jones

3. Daredevil 2

4. Luke Cage

 

But again...that's not me saying I didn't enjoy Luke Cage. It was great, definitely in the top 10 for shows for me this year.

For me, it'll be:

1. Jessica Jones
2. Luke Cage
3. Daredevil Season 1
4. Daredevil Season 2

It's crazy that how good this universe started with Daredevil season 1, it's only gotten better and better (with the exception of the second half of Daredevil season 2), I fucking loved Luke Cage. Just about everything about it, in fact, I would have ranked it on the same plane as Jessica Jones, except it did one thing:

Spoiler

 

I hated a bit how small they made the world of Luke Cage. Luke Cage is tied to the robbery in episode 1 in two different ways, he works at both Pop's AND Cottonmouth's businesses, Pop and Cottonmouth ran around together when they were younger, Cottonmouth has a huge supplier who he's afraid of named Diamondback, who just so happens to be Luke Cage's half-brother brother from fucking Georgia, even though the show is based in a neighbourhood in New York. Diamondback also has Shades in his crew, who just so happens to be a fellow Seagate Prison inmate of Luke Cage, and just so happens to be one of the guys who almost killed Luke Cage back when he was Carl Lucas (though this one is a bit more forgivable, I guess, you could deduce that Diamondback had Shades in his crew even before that and put him in prison to maybe kill Cage or something).

Then there's Misty, a detective who used to hang out at Pop's shop, and hung out at Harlem's Paradise on the very same night that she was able to meet Luke, and it turns out her partner just so happens to be the corrupt cop in Cottonmouth's pocket. 

There's also a couple of smaller ones, like Luke just so happens to walk into Claire's mum's restaurant the day after Claire comes to Harlem, and that Ripley and Mariah are sorority sisters, but those felt believable. The others were the craziest coincidences, though.

Am I also the only one that gets the feeling that Claire is going to be super pivotal in the Defenders series, and she's going to band to get them all to work together? I feel like it'll be sweet if it was her or Turk that did it, since they've appeared in every series so far.

 

 

[Josh]

15 hours ago, Benkid Nada said:

For me, it'll be:

1. Jessica Jones
2. Luke Cage
3. Daredevil Season 1
4. Daredevil Season 2

It's crazy that how good this universe started with Daredevil season 1, it's only gotten better and better (with the exception of the second half of Daredevil season 2), I fucking loved Luke Cage. Just about everything about it, in fact, I would have ranked it on the same plane as Jessica Jones, except it did one thing:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I hated a bit how small they made the world of Luke Cage. Luke Cage is tied to the robbery in episode 1 in two different ways, he works at both Pop's AND Cottonmouth's businesses, Pop and Cottonmouth ran around together when they were younger, Cottonmouth has a huge supplier who he's afraid of named Diamondback, who just so happens to be Luke Cage's half-brother brother from fucking Georgia, even though the show is based in a neighbourhood in New York. Diamondback also has Shades in his crew, who just so happens to be a fellow Seagate Prison inmate of Luke Cage, and just so happens to be one of the guys who almost killed Luke Cage back when he was Carl Lucas (though this one is a bit more forgivable, I guess, you could deduce that Diamondback had Shades in his crew even before that and put him in prison to maybe kill Cage or something).

Then there's Misty, a detective who used to hang out at Pop's shop, and hung out at Harlem's Paradise on the very same night that she was able to meet Luke, and it turns out her partner just so happens to be the corrupt cop in Cottonmouth's pocket. 

There's also a couple of smaller ones, like Luke just so happens to walk into Claire's mum's restaurant the day after Claire comes to Harlem, and that Ripley and Mariah are sorority sisters, but those felt believable. The others were the craziest coincidences, though.

Am I also the only one that gets the feeling that Claire is going to be super pivotal in the Defenders series, and she's going to band to get them all to work together? I feel like it'll be sweet if it was her or Turk that did it, since they've appeared in every series so far.

 

 

Spoiler

 

I don't really have an issue with how small the world is. And honestly, some of those connections can be chalked up to their very intentional presentation of Harlem as a very tight-knit community.

As for Claire, she'll definitely be pivotal. The bit with her looking into a self-defense class makes it appear that she'll even be part of a battle or two. And yes, Turk should definitely be in the mix as his own minor wild card. The more he can be used in this interwoven world, the better.

 

 

[Roster Depth Sicko No. 2]

Finished it off this evening, thought the series as a whole was excellent. I can see the criticism for Diamondback after how good Cottonmouth was, but I thought he was very good in his own right.

Finale comments:

I think they've set up a lot of potential for the next series with that finale. Cage back at Seagate, Bobby has the file with the information to clear him, creepy doctor dude has Diamondback, Diamondback is still alive so there's clearly more history to explore there, Misty's going after Mariah with newfound vengeance, Claire kissing Cage is clearly going to have conflict with Jessica when she comes back into it, blatant hints at Murdock and Nelson from Claire; and we still have Iron Fist to tie into all of this.

Defenders is going to be incredible, I can feel it.

[Lint]

[Lint]

[GoGo Yubari]

I honestly have a hard time separating Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, and Daredevil S1 in terms of quality. Jessica Jones was probably the best of the three if I had to really pin it down, but tonally the first half of Luke Cage is the most I've ever enjoyed any of them. Still, JJ is the only one that I think really finishes strong; its problems are more in stretching it out to get to the finish. In general I think every one of the Netflix shows thusfar could have done with being a couple episodes shorter.

Daredevil S2 is far and a way by a million miles the worst of them because while Luke Cage gets a bit silly near the end, nowhere near as silly as the fucking ninja tiptoeing everywhere.

[Szumi]

 

[Lint]

Slight overall spoilers, if you haven't seen the whole season yet don't click.  I'm just wondering something that hit me tonight

How the hell is Hammertech still around?  THe Judas bullets were from them, as was Diamondbacks suit.  You'd think after the events of Iron Man 2 they'd have been sued and bankrupted into oblivion, what with the whole "helping an international fugitive/criminal" thing and the "massive destruction of city blocks" thing.  Victims, both corporations and individuals, would've sued the hell out of them, Justin Hammer would probably be in Gitmo, the government probably would've seized all assets, weaponized or not.  It just took accounting issues to make Enron and Worldcom disappear, no way in hell Hammertech would still be around

[MalaCloudy Black]

The way I figured it, 

 

Spoiler

If Hydra can infiltrate the highest levels of US government and SHIELD, I don't see there being any issue with Hammer or Hammer Tech having a strong foothold in the black market, especially when it comes to weapons. 

 

[I Don't Mind]

My thoughts on that particular call-back

I assumed the Judas bullets, the power-suit, and probably all kinds of shit no one even knows about are just out there floating in the wind. Hammertech could have created a stockpile of inventions before being shut down, and the black market just ate it all up. I didn't think Stryker was walking into a still-functional Hammertech Mart and pulling things off the shelf

Overall, I think this was the weakest of the Netflix series, but still pretty damn good. It gave voice to the voiceless and added a lot of worldbuilding, but some of the dialogue just did not grab me. Not even the stuff said that other characters call out as being bad, but stuff that really took me out of the moment or dragged things on. Episode 1 was definitely the most egregious but it was peppered throughout the series.

Finale thoughts / overall thoughts

Like others, I wish we could have gotten more Danny Rand reference. Like a representative of The Rand Company comes into the police station before Cage can be brought out to the car to explain his legal bills have already been paid for by a very interested prospective associate.

I think Misty and Luke were better together than Claire and Luke. If it's just there to build a triangle between Claire/Luke/Jessica, I guess I can stomach it, but I think it devalues Claire to be romantically linked between half the Defenders (or 2/5 if Punisher is going to be an official member). God help me if Claire returns and jumps into bed with Danny Rand.

[DFF]

Finished this the other day. Personally, I loved the majority of it.

More spoilery thoughts:

Spoiler

Cottonmouth was brilliant, and it took me a while to warm to Diamondback because of it. Yes, the latter was cheesy as hell, but I actually think he killed it in the last few episodes (the "why are you telling me this?" scene was brilliant!). Also, with the show running to 13 eps, it almost felt like there were two mini-series being jammed back-to-back. Seriously, I would have entirely bought Cottonmouth's death and the blame being pinned on Cage as a potentially great shocking/downer ending to a season. Season 2 could then have been revealing this mysterious Diamondback to everyone.

Shades was also great, though some of my friends really disliked him for some reason.

I think the 'world' that was created for this felt more like a living breathing thing over the other Marvel Netflix shows. Oh, and the soundtrack was about 95% brilliant.

As for show rankings:

01. Daredevil S1
02. Luke Cage
03. Daredevil S2
04. Jessica Jones

With very small gaps between 1 and 2, and 3 and 4.

[JasonM]

Finally watched the season finale, and I gotta agree with Yubari that I really don't want to grade any of the seasons. They all got their good moments and bad moments, but I feel ultimately the quality shines through in all of them in a major way. From the little things like references, the diverse personality all three series show off and making New York feel like a massive city where every neighborhood has their own microcosm of shit to deal with.

Loved the cameos, loved the little beats of humour interspersed, and loved that this is arguably the first non-comedy that has built a series around a near all-minority cast, which of course is also a big part of the series itself. As said, there were a few things that were 'eh', some ham-fisted moments and some plot/episode hiccups that made the series stumble, but I loved every episode, and I loved most of the characters too.

Really can't wait for Iron Fist, and Defenders after that, with how they're building everything up, it's gonna be immense.

[Benji]

Season 2 confirmed.