Biggest Screwjob

[Herr Matzat]

Love of the game?  Believe it or not, I enjoyed the England games - even when we fucked up against France and Portugal after defending all the time.

You don't like your national team, so why watch an international tournament?

OMG IDIOT LOLZ!!!!!       

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becaus there is more than patriotisem in this world, i know it´s hard for someone like you to understand that, you are defending your team like a retard tring to master kungfooooo, and i know i should go to hell for laughing at people that obviusly have an extrem brain damage (there is no other way to explain the stuff you wrote untill now and how it more and more stops to make sens wen you look at it together) but thankfully i don´t belive in god and cannot care, so

England lost, and there was no screewwjob annywere, there was no bad decision, it was within the rules of the tournament, and there is nothing you can change about it, even if you know how manny whiefs Meier had in his life thanks to the extra reliabell "the sun" BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

your such a horrible looser

[SaNtY]

Wow, you're an english lower league ref that means you're absolutely neutral on this agenda and qualified.

So hmm which ref should I believe, the international recognized non-english refs on TV or some lower league ENGLISH ref on some message board (who by the way thinks that the rules and guidelines are the same in every league)? Difficult choice if you ask me.

Just because you're a ref doesn't mean you know the rules. I'm an active player and I know lots of lower league refs and at least 50% of them have no plan at all, why should I believe that you're different?

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LOL, you gotta love players who think they know more than referees.

Believe it or not, the rules in England are exactly the same as UEFA rules. Which shows how much you know, I.E, Nothing.

International refs do not get it right all the time and UEFA supporting Urs Meier was bound to happen simply due to the fact that football authorities always back up the referee's decision, right or wrong. Thats just how it is, like I said before, Meier would be expected to back up another ref if they made a poor call.

Get a rule book, go on a local refs course to get a basic understanding of the rules and then come back to me. You will have changed your mind.

[Herr Matzat]

LMAO

yes yes yes, europ screwed england, english rules are the only trou ones.

[Asuka's Gonna Kill You]

I was reading the Mirror(English newspaper) today and see a picture of that referee from the internet where fans have said wanted dead or alive or some crap. That's going over the top, and I'll admit I think some English fans are right twats. Wow he made a poor descsion, so that's a good reason to send the guy death threats and shit? Idiots.

[therockbox]

becaus there is more than patriotisem in this world, i know it´s hard for someone like you to understand that, you are defending your team like a retard tring to master kungfooooo,

Yes, there is more than patriotism - which is why I don't stay out of these tournaments. Are you an idiot...

and i know i should go to hell for laughing at people that obviusly have an extrem brain damage (there is no other way to explain the stuff you wrote untill now and how it more and more stops to make sens wen you look at it together) but thankfully i don´t belive in god and cannot care, so

What a mature comment. This is why you get called a troll Matzat, because you don't backup your arguments with facts. Just the odd rambling about things not mattering.

England lost, and there was no screewwjob annywere, there was no bad decision, it was within the rules of the tournament, and there is nothing you can change about it, even if you know how manny whiefs Meier had in his life thanks to the extra reliabell "the sun" BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Once again, Matzat's selective reading shines through. I never said the Sun was a reliable source, but the BBC and Sky Sports are. Nor did I say it was a 'screewjob' - I said it wasn't. I don't care about Meier's private life, or how many women he has on the side. They weren't within the rules of the tournament - read FIFA's rules. Or look at tonight's game. The Greeks had a corner and Dellas went up for it, blocking the keeper who attempted to get the ball (note: this was in the first half, not where they scored). He didn't even know the keeper was there, and it was the goalies fault for positioning himself in such a bad position. Remind you of anything? Sol Campbell's 'goal'. Did Collina give a free kick? No.

I don't know about Germany, but there has been a lot of problems in the English Leagues because of inconsistency, and it seems to be the same at International Level as well. If you're going to give a foul for one incident, every other incident of the same nature has to be punished equally.

But that would be logical, and I wouldn't expect you to understand that.

LMAO

yes yes yes, europ screwed england, english rules are the only trou ones.

Sadly, they should be. After all, we invented the game.

I was reading the Mirror(English newspaper) today and see a picture of that referee from the internet where fans have said wanted dead or alive or some crap. That's going over the top, and I'll admit I think some English fans are right twats. Wow he made a poor descsion, so that's a good reason to send the guy death threats and shit? Idiots.

At first it was funny (free eye tests for Swiss people, boycott Toblerones etc) but now it has gone to far. It's only a game - threatening someones life over it is ridiculous.

The people that are doing this aren't football fans at all, just thugs.

[SaNtY]

LMAO

yes yes yes, europ screwed england, english rules are the only trou ones.

           

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Where exactly did I say that?? I said that Englands rules are exactly the same as UEFA's, which is true.

TBH Matzat your just showing how childish you are by reacting like this. We're trying to have a debate about peoples different opinions, which tends to be the point of a message board. Grow up.

[Asuka's Gonna Kill You]

Exactly A.S. Sure I would be super pissed if something like that happened to Italy but I certainly wouldn't go round threatning to murder the referee. Like you said its not the football fans, its just the twats that feel the need to do this sorta stuff.

[Guest BigDirty]

LOL, you gotta love players who think they know more than referees.

Well if a ref doesn't even know all the offside rules I think I have the right to question his ability.

Believe it or not, the rules in England are exactly the same as UEFA rules. Which shows how much you know, I.E, Nothing.

Get a rule book, go on a local refs course to get a basic understanding of the rules and then come back to me. You will have changed your mind.

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Could you please quit talking crap? The rules and guidelines are sometimes not even the same in the same country.

Some examples:

1) In the Bundesliga there are 4 officials. In the Kreisliga there is only one. There are line refs but they're most of the time coaches of the teams and they're only allowed to signal if the ball crossed the sideline. See different ref rules.

2) Bundesliga teams have to play on grass. Kreisliga teams can play on any ground. See different ground rules.

3) In Berlin's Kreisliga the guidelines for refs are to not give many cards to protect the refs. In Kreisliga it's next to impossible to get redcarded. I've been in a game where a already booked opponent made a foul that would've been a 4 week ban in Bundesliga, then he made deaththreaths to the ref and got nothing and it's ok with the BFV. See different punishment rules.

Seriously have you watched games in Premier League and e.g. Bundesliga and want to tell me the rules and guidelines are the same? Please. The guidelines are quite different. Things you get booked for in Bundesliga are not even a foul in the Premier League.

And by the way some rules are applied nowhere. E.g. you're not allowed to come back on the field if you didn't leave it on your own feet. I've seen many times that a player was carried out on a stretcher and returned but not once did the ref say that it wasn't ok.

Maybe you shouldn't assume that everything is the same if you never reffed in different countries.

[therockbox]

Exactly A.S. Sure I would be super pissed if something like that happened to Italy but I certainly wouldn't go round threatning to murder the referee. Like you said its not the football fans, its just the twats that feel the need to do this sorta stuff.

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It's like the fans on the Algarve (sp?) when we were in the tournament that went around rioting after our games. I'm just glad UEFA were smart enough to realize they were just there to cause trouble and had no intention of going to the games, so there was no way the FA could've stopped them.

[cjt4ever]

Montreal '97 because it was intentional.

[SaNtY]

Could you please quit talking crap? The rules and guidelines are sometimes not even the same in the same country.

Some examples:

1) In the Bundesliga there are 4 officials. In the Kreisliga there is only one. There are line refs but they're most of the time coaches of the teams and they're only allowed to signal if the ball crossed the sideline. See different ref rules.

2) Bundesliga teams have to play on grass. Kreisliga teams can play on any ground. See different ground rules.

3) In Berlin's Kreisliga the guidelines for refs are to not give many cards to protect the refs. In Kreisliga it's next to impossible to get redcarded. I've been in a game where a already booked opponent made a foul that would've been a 4 week ban in Bundesliga, then he made deaththreaths to the ref and got nothing and it's ok with the BFV. See different punishment rules.

Seriously have you watched games in Premier League and e.g. Bundesliga and want to tell me the rules and guidelines are the same? Please. The guidelines are quite different. Things you get booked for in Bundesliga are not even a foul in the Premier League.

And by the way some rules are applied nowhere. E.g. you're not allowed to come back on the field if you didn't leave it on your own feet. I've seen many times that a player was carried out on a stretcher and returned but not once did the ref say that it wasn't ok.

Maybe you shouldn't assume that everything is the same if you never reffed in different countries.

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We are talking about UEFA rules and the Football Association Rules, they are exactly the F'N same!!! Don't try and tell me different, all you've done is prove to me that bundesliga rules are different Kreisliga's. The rules of the UEFA European Championship are the same rules that apply to the English Football Association. Could you please tell me if the Kreisliga follows UEFA guidelines? Oh silly question, of course it doesn't.

So could you please stop talking crap as UEFA and the FA do have the same rules, which is what the arguement in this topic was about. Whether or not the referee had the right to disallow a goal that according to UEFA (AND FIFA!!) guidelines should have been allowed.

Finally, I have reffed in different countries before, Holland for example, yet again not at a big level, but don't go stating things without knowing full facts.

Edited July 4, 2004 by SaNtY

[Guest BigDirty]

We are talking about UEFA rules and the Football Association Rules, they are exactly the F'N same!!! Don't try and tell me different, all you've done is prove to me that bundesliga rules are different Kreisliga's. The rules of the UEFA European Championship are the same rules that apply to the English Football Association. Could you please tell me if the Kreisliga follows UEFA guidelines? Oh silly question, of course it doesn't.

So could you please stop talking crap as UEFA and the FA do have the same rules, which is what the arguement in this topic was about. Whether or not the referee had the right to disallow a goal that according to UEFA (AND FIFA!!) guidelines should have been allowed.

Finally, I have reffed in different countries before, Holland for example, yet again not at a big level, but don't go stating things without knowing full facts.

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So english and dutch lower leagues follow UEFA guidelines according to you (cause you get your rulebook directly from UEFA) but german lower leagues don't? Makes sense. :thumbs-up:

So if the rules and guidelines are the same everywhere, why is something a yellow card in Bundesliga that is not even a foul in Premier League? The basic set of rules are the same but guidelines and some rule details are different. Years ago Thomas Helmer made a phantom goal against Nürnberg (the ball went ~1m beside of the goal but the line ref said it went into the goal) and that match was replayed because of the DFB. Under UEFA & FIFA rules it is/was not allowed to replay that match, but it was replayed. So what could this mean?

[Timmoru Suzuki]

Ok, i've not posted in the Sports Bar for ages 'cos this argument was getting annoying, and I come back and its still going!

We're never going to agree, we could keep making our cases and points and arguments over and over again, and we can keep bringing up new points to make until we are blue in the face, but we will never agree on this, so can we just agree to disagree, and move on with our lives!

Anyway, to answer the topic, whilst I believe we were screwed over by Mr. Meier, it was FAR from being the biggest screwjob ever. Whilst I believe it was a horrible decision, I don't believe we deserved to go through, or we could have gone out anyway. We wouldn't have won the tournament IMO. So, i'm saying Montreal 97, as it was intentional. In my opinion it was a mistake by Meier, I'm not 100% sure it was intentional.

Edited July 5, 2004 by timmayy

[SaNtY]

So english and dutch lower leagues follow UEFA guidelines according to you (cause you get your rulebook directly from UEFA) but german lower leagues don't? Makes sense. :thumbs-up:

The point im trying to make is that the FA and UEFA have the same rules, which was the whole point of this arguement, the fact that the rules in Euro 2004 are the same as the English Premiership. Can you argue that statement?

So if the rules and guidelines are the same everywhere, why is something a yellow card in Bundesliga that is not even a foul in Premier League? The basic set of rules are the same but guidelines and some rule details are different. Years ago Thomas Helmer made a phantom goal against Nürnberg (the ball went ~1m beside of the goal but the line ref said it went into the goal) and that match was replayed because of the DFB. Under UEFA & FIFA rules it is/was not allowed to replay that match, but it was replayed. So what could this mean?

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The reason that something is a yellow card in the bundesliga is because ref's interpret things differently, but the rules are exactly the same. That "phantom goal" and the fact that the match was replayed means that the German league acted on it's own, there are no rules or laws that mention that, UEFA will have advised them but there are no specific laws to say wether or not to replay a match if that happens. However the Bundesliga still follows the UEFA rules of the game, just like England, Holland and every other member of UEFA!

[Herr Matzat]

and england has the only right ionterpretation of this rule, of cause

[Guest BigDirty]

"There are different rules here and I applied them." - Urs Meier

Seems like one of the world's best refs agrees with that the rules are different in every league but I'm not gonna argue with you anymore because like Timaay said you ain't never going to agree with me. So I will not look at this thread anymore.

[Turbo Yannis]

Sadly, they should be.  After all, we invented the game.

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I thought it was Scotland that invented the game

Mazat, you need to shut up. Now. Recently, all your posts have been complete muck and just asking for a response. And not to mention that you're actually really shit at gloating :ohwell:

Edited July 5, 2004 by Turbonegro

[Herr Matzat]

I thought it was Scotland that invented the game 

Mazat, you need to shut up.  Now.  Recently, all your posts have been complete muck and just asking for a response. 

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yes, i fully agree, "we english are the majorety, it is like this [bla...bla] and there is no reason to disagree sinc we have more clue than everyone elth and are fully neutral - who claims different is a nazi troll" is absolutly not asking for anny replies . . . nore is it full of shit . . . ore annywere near uninteligent.

you know what, if you don´t want to get laughed at for being a whine bitch stay out of thes topics, after all i did not open this, do not disalow me to have my point and my fun with people that are moaning crying and bitching like crazy.

It´s so funny how you guys hangel yourself from one sore lame excuse to the next one after we proved 10 times (9 arent enough to get you guys to notecing that you make fools out of yourself) how wrong and silly your excuses are (shit, you were following headlines by the Sun for christs sake) - and if you don´t stop doing that, i´ll make fun of you behaving silly, the same way we bitch about dumb e-bay acoutions and the guy that claimed he made his own mother pregnand.

It´s that simple.

[Timmoru Suzuki]

Fuck you Matzat

To use your own lame argument against you "I'm a whining German twat who bitches about the English thinking they are better then everyone else just because they don't agree with me. Just because they have a different opinion then me they must just think i'm a nazi troll"

Now anyway, in an attempt to increase the maturity of this thread, you talk about wanting your opinions heard. Thats fine, yet when Turbonegro posts his, you bitch. This is unfair.

The you talk further about having your opinions heard, and yet you acuse others in here of being whiny bitches when they post their opinion.

Please stop resorting to re-hashing crude stereotypes of the German/English relationship. Please stop posting little comments to piss the English fans off just because you KNOW they will react and we'll get another 4 pages of this argument that has already gone on WAY WAY WAY too long.

Anyway, answer me this honestly. Put Germany in the same position. Have say, (I admit to not knowing too many German players, so forgive me if these are not currently in the national team) Michael Ballack score a goal identical to Campbell's in last minute against Portugal, but its disallowed because Metzelder did the same actions as John Terry. Can you honestly tell me that you wouldn't be in the slighest bit angry, upset or bitter?

Now, potentially being slightly hipicritical, can I repeat what I have already said, and what others (e.g. Big Dirty) has agreed with:

Ok, i've not posted in the Sports Bar for ages 'cos this argument was getting annoying, and I come back and its still going!

We're never going to agree, we could keep making our cases and points and arguments over and over again, and we can keep bringing up new points to make until we are blue in the face, but we will never agree on this, so can we just agree to disagree, and move on with our lives!

[SaNtY]

I didn't say that the English interpretation was the only correct one, I was merely pointing out that the rules from which the game is played is exactly the same in England as it is in the Euro Championships. The fact that Meier said there are different rules will mean that things are interpreted differently. I have never said that rules aren't interepreted differently, just that the rules and laws are the same.

Anyway, whats the point in having a message board where people debate things if your going to stop visiting threads because somebody has decided to challenge your opinion?

Finally, Matzat, the way your acting is perhaps the most immature display I have ever seen on these boards, including people like Batsman, CXD and Jordon. Stop acting like a cock, the English aren't "whineeeyy vbabbyyss hahashahshasa" there just discussing a point about the English team where they disagreed with a decision that was obviously controversial. Despite what you think there isn't some huge English conspiracy against other nations on the board, I think there are just as many Americans and Canadians on the board as there are English. Find me one post where anybody has said something along the lines of "We're the English, we're the majority-so what we say goes". It hasn't happened so stop acting like a 6 year old kid.