The Comic Book Thread (spoilers)

[Benji]

The following links contain a rather large spoiler on the upcoming status of the Green Lantern franchise so beware before you click any of them...

Uno

Dos

Tres

I can't deny I'm DAMNED hyped for this, Sinestro Corps has been amazing and I didn't know how they'd top it, I get the foreboding feeling that this will be a story never topped by the GL writers, whether that's a good or a bad thing we'll find out.

[GhostMachine]

The following links contain a rather large spoiler on the upcoming status of the Green Lantern franchise so beware before you click any of them...

Uno

Dos

Tres

I can't deny I'm DAMNED hyped for this, Sinestro Corps has been amazing and I didn't know how they'd top it, I get the foreboding feeling that this will be a story never topped by the GL writers, whether that's a good or a bad thing we'll find out.

[Benji]

The Sinestro Corps ending was brilliant, best major story ending in quite a few years, 100% satisfactory and more enjoyable than the rest of its story (which is saying something).

Has anyone else been reading Catwoman? I picked up the last three issues and I've been so impressed, the writer has done a great job making the story all about Selina rather than Catwoman, her villains or even Batman (even though all of them have been involved), I'm going to see what back issues I've got and see what I can add because those three were some of the best issues I've read in a while, it's got the kind of feel I wish Spider-Man would always have only with less of the comedy.

Countdown remains an unnaccountable mess and is boring me with its tedium, however, I'll keep collecting simply because I'm over half way now and if I collect all of them I figure I can sell them for a damn fine price at some point, one of few times I've ever collected for that one cause

The X-Men story is still running well and if they tone down the continual fights in the late stages it should be one of the best three non-limited series unified X-Stories I've read.

Black Adam, 'nuff said, it's such an odd book, it's inexplainable why it's so good to be honest, I love the character, he's so unique, he's not good or bad, he's not just in it for himself, he's an anti-hero/anti-villain (if that makes any sense) who just wants to revive his wife for her own sakes, not so much his.

[Benji]

How can Wonder Woman have been written so poorly? Gail Simone takes the title and instantly it becomes awesome, how's that for a shocked? Incidentally, whilst I've been reading her first two issues on the book (which instantly have an interesting hook as well as some, as expected, good writing), my mind chased back to the old "Women In Refridgerators" website and phrase leading to my new catchphrase.

"I like my women like I like my milk, in the fridge."

[Heel Turn]

Green Lantern is stupid. The Sinestro Corps is stupid. DC is stupid. For the first time in my life I'm no longer actively following a single DC title, and I don't miss it a bit. The entire company is a convoluted, incomprehensible mess. I really hope Time-Warner sells DC to Marvel or something just so we can get people who actually care about the characters and can write realistic human beings to un-fuck the DCU.

[Benji]

Are we talking the same book? Green Lantern has delivered in almost every book and it promises to get even better in the next couple of years potentially. I can understand being miffed at the rest of DC (with a few exceptions here and there), but Green Lantern has been great, and I didn't even like the GL until this story >_>

[TGC]

I have not read Sinestro Corps yet, but Green Lantern under Johns is a fine book, and SC is being universally hailed as the greatest crossover of the year bar none.

And as for a company that loves its characters, and keep in mind I am not a mindless fanboy for either company but instead feel that both have made innumerable mistakes in the past few years, I have onely a few words to say:

Spiderman: One More Day

[Benji]

Just don't go there Teej, I'm giving and taking enough grief for that in the shop, it's fucking lame beyond belief, I'm all for changing the dynamic of a book but JMS should be banned from even mentioning Spider-Man ever again for this bore, this is how you try and end the relationship between arguably comics best loved couple?

[TGC]

Actually, considering JMS has stated that he wanted his name taken off of the last few issues, and but said outright that OMD is Quesada 's baby, I don't blame him for this abortion.

[GhostMachine]

Green Lantern is stupid. The Sinestro Corps is stupid. DC is stupid. For the first time in my life I'm no longer actively following a single DC title, and I don't miss it a bit. The entire company is a convoluted, incomprehensible mess. I really hope Time-Warner sells DC to Marvel or something just so we can get people who actually care about the characters and can write realistic human beings to un-fuck the DCU.

[Benji]

Cap is dead, and possibly being replaced by Bucky, who didn't die after all but was "rescued" by the Commies, who replaced his arm which was blown off with a mechanical one and brainwashed him to be an assassin for them. Not to mention the fact that its been retconned so that Bucky was actually older during WW2 and wasn't just Cap's sidekick but a trained assassin who did the dirty work that Cap couldn't.

To be fair, if you've been reading, the whole "Bucky returning/being Cap thing" is very well done, Brubaker deserves a medal for one of the best 'resurrections' in comics history..

[GhostMachine]

Cap is dead, and possibly being replaced by Bucky, who didn't die after all but was "rescued" by the Commies, who replaced his arm which was blown off with a mechanical one and brainwashed him to be an assassin for them. Not to mention the fact that its been retconned so that Bucky was actually older during WW2 and wasn't just Cap's sidekick but a trained assassin who did the dirty work that Cap couldn't.

To be fair, if you've been reading, the whole "Bucky returning/being Cap thing" is very well done, Brubaker deserves a medal for one of the best 'resurrections' in comics history..

[Benji]

Part of me does look forward to Brand New Day, it's a chance to fuck over a lot of bad continuity, but another part of me feels it's going to introduce a new continuity that is going to make me wrench, mostly the MJ/Jackpot thing, I'm half and half as to where it'll land.

[Heel Turn]

Green Lantern is stupid. The Sinestro Corps is stupid. DC is stupid. For the first time in my life I'm no longer actively following a single DC title, and I don't miss it a bit. The entire company is a convoluted, incomprehensible mess. I really hope Time-Warner sells DC to Marvel or something just so we can get people who actually care about the characters and can write realistic human beings to un-fuck the DCU.

WTF are you talking about? Lets see how much Marvel cares about characters:

Tony Stark is practically a super-villain right now. At any rate, he's a huge asshole now.

Cap is dead, and possibly being replaced by Bucky, who didn't die after all but was "rescued" by the Commies, who replaced his arm which was blown off with a mechanical one and brainwashed him to be an assassin for them. Not to mention the fact that its been retconned so that Bucky was actually older during WW2 and wasn't just Cap's sidekick but a trained assassin who did the dirty work that Cap couldn't.

Spider-Man has been fucked up by JMS, who practically shit all over Gwen Stacy's memory in the process.

One More Day. Nuff said. I'm avoiding ANY Spider-Man titles until that garbage is undone.

And that's just for starters.

I used to be a die-hard Marvel fan, but am no longer. The day Joe Quesada resigns, is fired, or is hit by a speeding truck can't come soon enough, because he's a fanboy and fanboys shouldn't be running things.

Edited December 24, 2007 by Heel Turn

[TGC]

Who was resurrected by Bat Mite?

And I know I've said this before, but again, DC has some great smaller titles going on that can be (usually) read independently of any of the others. Manhunter was such a book. Sadly it is STILL on hiatus, but if you haven't read the 25ish issues out there, do yourself a favor and check them out. Birds Of Prey is a similar book. Sure, it does tend to get involved a little bit more than Manhunter did with the event of the moment, but currently, due mainly to Gail Simone's leaving, the book is on it's own. Tony Bedard did a bangup job filling in, and now is the start of Sean McKeever's run, which should be awesome. Booster Gold is a really really fun little book currently only five issues in which plays with time travel and what if's. Dan Jurgens is doing some of the best work he has done in a decade on the art. Checkmate by Rucka and the return of The Suicide Squad by John Ostrander are two modern day classics in the making. And finally, even though I'm not sure it's good at all, I have this little soft spot for Shadowpact.

Similar to some Marvel books like Omega The Unknown, Nova, She-Hulk, Runaways, Astonishing X-Men, Captain America, and Daredevil, DC is putting out some quality books if you look for them. Also much like Marvel's Iron-Man, Spider-Man, and The FF DC's big guns like Superman, Batman, and The Flash are horrid. It saddens me more and more to see what Judd Winick is doing to Green Arrow and Black Canary, and the JLA and JSA are jokes and parodies of their former selves. But I would be terribly remiss if I didn't mention that Gail Simone has managed to fix Wonder Woman in two issues.

Both have some very good and some very bad, but painting one or the other with a big brush using broad strokes is terribly short sighted. If i had to name one thing I wish both companies would stop doin, it would be Cross Overs. I am terribly sick of Infinite Final 52 Amazons Countdown To Crisis at DC and Civil House Of Secret World War Invasion at Marvel.

Oh, and as much fun as it currently is apparently to still rag on JMS, as much as he wasn't the bad guy who came up with One More Day, it wasn't his idea to reveal that Gwen's kids father was Norman. He wanted them to be Pete's kids. Any better? Doubtful, but the fact is that once again Quesada came up with the final resolution to that storyline and made JMS write it that way. Similar to how editorial mandated the fucked up ending to The Hobgoblin story in the 80's, mandated Hal Jordan go nuts in Green Lantern in the 90's, mandated the murder of Blue Beetle at the hands of Max Lord three years ago, and mandated each and every crossover in the last 5 years that has driven me away from comics.

Just my $.02

[GhostMachine]

JMS may not have been responsible for the kids being Norman's and not Peter's, but he's done a ton of interviews where he tried to justify his shit and his explanations don't wash. Hell, the whole Sins Past thing requires some retconning anyway, because during the time Gwen was away, got knocked up and gave birth, she was actually only gone for about a week or two. In the essay that I posted a link to, it was pointed out that JMS said in an interview that you need to shake things up to keep things from being stagnant. Yes, you SHOULD shake things up, but do it in a way that's faithful to the characters and doesn't dick around with what's happened before or their personalities, but his garbage doesn't follow that. The fact is, Sins Past (and Sins Remembered) would still have been garbage even if the kids had turned out to be Peter's, just not as bad.

The last two Spider-Man comics I bought were the issue where Peter, MJ and Aunt May move into Stark Tower (and I mainly bought it due to the scene with Aunt May and Cap, believe it or not) and the annual super-hero poker game one where the Kingpin shows up. And with the utter shit that's happened since, I don't see myself buying ANY Spider-Man comic (that is, one with Spider-Man in the title; stuff where he guest stars doesn't count) anytime soon unless a lot of the garbage, including OMD, gets fixed. Sins Past is easy to deal with, because it can easily be ignored\forgotten about, unless some idiot decides to reference it, and even then any writer with half a brain could undo it (ie, the kids were actually cloned using DNA Norman had taken from Gwen's corpse and the motherfucker had evidence faked and lied about having sex with her - for the record, that's sort of the deal with Batman's "son" Damien; he was created in a lab, not when Bruce and Talia knocked boots in that graphic novel - it was revealed in Batman #666 or #667)

Heel Turn, if you see this, I suggest you check out Batman, if you haven't. I've never been a big Grant Morrison fan, and wasn't too thrilled with the whole Damien thing, but he's doing a damn good job on the title. And Gail Simone just took over the writing duties on Wonder Woman, so the book is actually good now.

Edited December 24, 2007 by GhostMachine

[TGC]

Oh please don't misunderstand me, I wasn't attempting to say that Sins Past was forgivable, just that the man "responsible" for it wasn't as "responsible" as many think, according to him at least.

Here's my thoughts on OMD and BND. Spider-Man will get through it, just like he got through The Clone Saga, just like he got through Spider-Man Year One, just like he got through the Spider Totem nonsense, and just like he has gotten through every other horribly concieved and executed event. His popularity and sales will be hurt, but in the end one of the most enduring and fun characters will survive. Meanwhile I will continue to read Ultimate Spider-Man until the Marvel Crisis washes that continuity away.

As for Morrison's Batman, yes I admit that I spoke out of turn there. In fact Dini's Detctive is every bit as good if not better. When I mentioned Batman as bad I suppose I was thinking of the New God Bruce Wayne storyline, which thankfully has been jetisoned. Wonder Woman, as I said above, is marvelous. Sadly, in my opinion, in Didio's attempts to make the Big Guns more relevant or sell more or whatever, he has actually hurt the characters more. Flash, Green Arrow, Superman, The JLA, The JSA are all unreadable over all. Still, every so often a writer comes along and breathes fresh life into a stale character despite the editorial mandates anbd dictates. Brubaker did it on Cap, Pak did it on Hulk, Bendis did it on Daredevil, Simone is doing it on WW, and I can hope that someone will do it on The FF, Superman, Flash, JLA, and Green Arrow/Black Canary in the coming years.

Here are some other times when myself and many others felt that a character was ruined and it turned out okay in the long run:

The Clone Saga

Simonson left Thor

The X-Men in the 90's

Claremont touched The FF

Judgement Day for The JLA

Chuck Dixon left DC and Nightwing, Robin, and BOP

Hawkman was sent into limbo after so many many writers fucked him up

Hal Jordan turned evil

Mark Millar wrote any beloved character

[Your Mom]

I read What if? Civil War. I don't generally get too emotionally invested in comics but oh wow that was a good one.

[MalaCloudy Black]

And next month you've got What If? Spider-Man vs. Wolverine.

What's the basic plot of What If? Civil War, though?

[Timmoru Suzuki]

It's a cannon story, in which Tony Stark is approached after Cap's funeral by someone with the ability to see alternative outcomes and potential futures. He shows Iron Man what would have happened if ALL the heroes were anti-reg, and then what would have happened if Iron Man and Cap would have compramised (it's actually called "What if Iron Man had lost Civil War?", but that's a mis-leading title).

The first story is a case of good idea, average writing, but the second is great stuff and is quite emotional as pointed out.

That and Iron Fist are the only of this weeks comics I've read yet. Iron Fist, as per usual was fantastic.

Edited December 24, 2007 by James timMAYy