The Comic Book Thread (spoilers)

[the machine]

Later bad stories don't undermine good stories. That's not how ongoing stories work. They may lose some of their power and become artifacts of their era, but Dark Phoenix Saga doesn't magically become a bad story because years later a young fan named Kurt Busiek thought up a way to bring Jean back. The only thing that holds a story like that back now is the change in styles in the way Claremont goes overboard with his exposition.

And it doesn't make much sense to whine about Marvel for not having ideas when everything Invincible does is a reference to ideas developed by Marvel or DC.

Edited December 29, 2010 by the machine

[Herr Matzat]

I don´t whine, i just stoped reading and make fun of whats going on. As i said, i own a ton of classic comics... but they are just milking it for whatever they can. I am just someone that likes continuety, and i don´t like Norman Osborn being alive for the 2353 time loosing his memory for the 5253 time while aunt may is still old or just returned from the dead because big name Marvel deaths mean shit and actual progress hurts their sales numbers.

I love comics, i always did since i was very young. But have some standarts, the shit is fucking expensive, get good stuff, get The Walking Dead, get Bone, get the stuff Goscinny wrote, get 20th Century Boys, get the classic original Marvel or DC stuff that still had progress and not just writers that fuck shit over to be ignord by the next writer... seriusly, this issent original Fantastic Four, this is fan fiction, people who read this wen they were small come up with stuff... go read Don Rosa Disney comics, go read Watchmen, Astro City... there is so much stuff out there to spend your money on... Scott Pillgrem, Buffy Season 8, Cursed Pirat Girl, Maus, Mozse Guard,

And it doesn't make much sense to whine about Marvel for not having ideas when everything Invincible does is a reference to ideas developed by Marvel or DC.

You obviusly have not understood Invincible. There is a difference betwen homage, moking and copying. Besides there is a lot of originalety and most importantly progress.

Edited December 29, 2010 by Michael Matzat on a Plane

[TGC]

Just because he disagrees with you and has another point of view does not mean he does not understand it. Invincible is a good book, but it is not this mind blowing greatest book ever that you are saying it is, and it pays a large debt to EVERYTHING that came before.

Modern Day Marvel Books that are great and you neglected because you have a hard on for hating Marvel you narrow minded fuck:

Daredevil

Nova

Guardians Of The Galaxy

Pretty Much ANYTHING Written By Warren Ellis At Marvel

Captain America

Runaways

There you go. All of that in the last 5 years has been stellar.

[the machine]

I don´t whine, i just stoped reading and make fun of whats going on. As i said, i own a ton of classic comics... but they are just milking it for whatever they can. I am just someone that likes continuety, and i don´t like Norman Osborn being alive for the 2353 time loosing his memory for the 5253 time while aunt may is still old or just returned from the dead because big name Marvel deaths mean shit and actual progress hurts their sales numbers.

I love comics, i always did since i was very young. But have some standarts, the shit is fucking expensive, get good stuff, get The Walking Dead, get Bone, get the stuff Goscinny wrote, get 20th Century Boys, get the classic original Marvel or DC stuff that still had progress and not just writers that fuck shit over to be ignord by the next writer... seriusly, this issent original Fantastic Four, this is fan fiction, people who read this wen they were small come up with stuff... go read Don Rosa Disney comics, go read Watchmen, Astro City... there is so much stuff out there to spend your money on... Scott Pillgrem, Buffy Season 8, Cursed Pirat Girl, Maus, Mozse Guard,

And it doesn't make much sense to whine about Marvel for not having ideas when everything Invincible does is a reference to ideas developed by Marvel or DC.

You obviusly have not understood Invincible. There is a difference betwen homage, moking and copying. Besides there is a lot of originalety and most importantly progress.

Yes, because I'm trapped in my little monthly comics box and have never even heard of these obscure indy books like "Walking Dead." I mean, seriously? I mean, why on earth would you think I haven't read any of these books, because I don't have your same bizarre dislike of working within established characters? Yes, sometimes mainstream books suck, but to argue that they don't move forward or are somehow different from a book like Walking Dead is silly. And I mean, why even tell me to read "classic" stories when my last post was explaining how a classic story doesn't magically become a bad story because of what happened 5, 10, or 25 years later? Seriously I don't know that I haven't read a single one of your incredibly trite suggestions, but thanks for assuming I must not have read any good comics because I don't have some axe to grind with Marvel/DC comics in general.

And no, I haven't "obviusly" misunderstood Invincible. It's a love letter to what came before but with enough self-awareness and grittiness that it doesn't read like a Kurt Busiek title. Seriously, if all Marvel/DC comics are "fan fiction," what do you think something like Astro City is, as a work written by a huge fan of the big two where nearly every character is a pastiche of another character if not "fan fiction"?

Just because he disagrees with you and has another point of view does not mean he does not understand it. Invincible is a good book, but it is not this mind blowing greatest book ever that you are saying it is, and it pays a large debt to EVERYTHING that came before.

Modern Day Marvel Books that are great and you neglected because you have a hard on for hating Marvel you narrow minded fuck:

Daredevil

Nova

Guardians Of The Galaxy

Pretty Much ANYTHING Written By Warren Ellis At Marvel

Captain America

Runaways

There you go. All of that in the last 5 years has been stellar.

Seriously, Captain America has been one of the best written, best drawn comics period, and it's been constantly pushing forward into new stories. Young Avengers was a great new book. Avengers: the Initiative was a fun read that used established continuity to push things forward. Even Hickman's FF, which is what was being referenced in the first place, has been a lot of fun.

I mean, I don't read what I don't like, but I think it's ridiculous to dismiss everything put out by Marvel or get on a high horse while recommending a mediocre genre book produced by a different company.

[Your Mom]

Is anyone reading the Wolverine in Hell stuff? I am having a hard time with where it fits in everything. In Wolverine his body is possessed and out kicking ass. He even gets in a fight with Kitty Pryde and she is now tangible again. But in Uncanny X-Men Wolverine is sick with the super mutant flu thing and Kitty I believe is not yet tangible. Do they just not connect at all?

[Johnny Latino Heat]

Is anyone reading the Wolverine in Hell stuff? I am having a hard time with where it fits in everything. In Wolverine his body is possessed and out kicking ass. He even gets in a fight with Kitty Pryde and she is now tangible again. But in Uncanny X-Men Wolverine is sick with the super mutant flu thing and Kitty I believe is not yet tangible. Do they just not connect at all?

I don't think she's tangible in Wolverine. It looks to me she's wearing the same suit that she got in Uncanny that allows her to walk around instead of being confined to a chamber of sorts. Why else would she be wearing a fishbowl in her head? It's not like she's a Mysterio fan. I think. Villains can have some strange groupies.

[stokeriño]

I knew Matzat was going to say Invincible. Just like I knew that he would mention 20th Century Boys when he used to enter the Anime/Manga thread.

The quality of the individual publications aside, it's pretty unhelpful to suggest the same thing every time.

[Herr Matzat]

Seriously, if all Marvel/DC comics are "fan fiction," what do you think something like Astro City is, as a work written by a huge fan of the big two where nearly every character is a pastiche of another character if not "fan fiction"?

It´s not. Just like Invincible it takes on a new universe. It´s a place of it´s own. Wenn people are getting riped apard in Incinvible it dos not nearly feel as missplaced as wen Marvel Zombies happens just because it builds on it´s own basis of a universe. - Now that one was out of continuety i belive, but it´s with other storys on a less obvius level. You got these people that read Spider-Man wen they grew up and now come to pull their Story based on the Spider-Man they grew up with "ignoring" what the last person that came along and did that has don. - Thats the FanFiction part of the problem.

Just because he disagrees with you and has another point of view does not mean he does not understand it. Invincible is a good book, but it is not this mind blowing greatest book ever that you are saying it is, and it pays a large debt to EVERYTHING that came before.

To me, it is. And i never said old comics are bad and playing of em was bad, but the most important thing about invincible is that it not just...

everything Invincible does is a reference to ideas developed by Marvel or DC.

...

Modern Day Marvel Books that are great and you neglected because you have a hard on for hating Marvel you narrow minded fuck

Yes, telling me that you wish to beat me with a baseball bat and calling me a narrow minded fuck clearly shows you are one of the great thinking minds. Keep going, you just will make me feel more right with an aditude like that.

I mean, I don't read what I don't like, but I think it's ridiculous to dismiss everything put out by Marvel or get on a high horse while recommending a mediocre genre book produced by a different company.

The problem is Originalety and Continuety. Not feeling cool because of being "Indy". And keep in mind that this was started by promoting a book with "zOMG major character dead, new numbah onnnneee!!!11111elevenoneone". - And just like with HHH and Stephanie in WWE wen she anounced she was pregnant i can already here the crowd chanting the obvius...

[GoGo Yubari]

Runaways

Honestly I haven't been all that into any arc not written by BKV.

Guardians of the Galaxy, Daredevil, and Captain America, though, absolutely. And I loved Matt Fraction's first arc on Invincible Iron-Man though it sort of lost my interest after that point.

[fr34k]

Yes, telling me that you wish to beat me with a baseball bat and calling me a narrow minded fuck clearly shows you are one of the great thinking minds. Keep going, you just will make me feel more right with an aditude like that.

With your narrow mind i bet that will never get boring.

Well done you.

[Herr Matzat]

I was refering to the fuck part of that one. - I got an opinion, and i actualy have points backing it. If you call "YOU DON´T LIKE?! I KILL YOU!" a sign openminded behaviour... but yeah, let´s not talk about contend and reason, they do not matter... you see, this is why i don´t like an anouncment like the one made by Marvel and "you" do.

Edited December 29, 2010 by Michael Matzat on a Plane

[the machine]

The problem is Originalety and Continuety. Not feeling cool because of being "Indy". And keep in mind that this was started by promoting a book with "zOMG major character dead, new numbah onnnneee!!!11111elevenoneone". - And just like with HHH and Stephanie in WWE wen she anounced she was pregnant i can already here the crowd chanting the obvius...

I literally have no idea what you are even trying to say. This was started by you coming into the thread, announcing "real" Marvel was dead, and then recommending a middling Image book. Then, in apparent desperation, recommending literally every book your local comic book shop guy has ever recc'ed to you, regardless of genre, quality, or the fact that nobody is saying those stories are bad, just that you are wrong. You're the one saying that Marvel's current production is bad (even though you don't read it), and that even when there are good stories, they are magically made bad because later writers might want to tell new stories that contradict or ignore continuity. And, surprisingly enough, nobody is particularly convinced by that argument.

I got an opinion, and i actualy have points backing it.

Your opinion isn't supported by reason. Your "points" are vague assertions that are the complete opposite of what was explained to you in specific detail: that Marvel does in fact produce very good books that people enjoy. Therefore said people get a little annoyed when you declare Marvel "dead" out of nowhere because of your own personal bias.

[Herr Matzat]

Either carry on crying or look at this free webcomic endles painting majig. Might just turn out to be your standart Fantasy story but at least it dos not include spider-man unmasking and resetting that by him making a deal with the devil.

The Wormworld Saga.

http://chapter01.wormworldsaga.com/

http://www.wormworldsaga.com/

Edited January 2, 2011 by Michael Matzat on a Plane

[GoGo Yubari]

This is the way the bickering over superhero comics ends, not with a bang, but a whimper.

[the machine]

Either carry on crying or look at this free webcomic endles painting majig. Might just turn out to be your standart Fantasy story but at least it dos not include spider-man unmasking and resetting that by him making a deal with the devil.

The Wormworld Saga.

http://chapter01.wormworldsaga.com/

http://www.wormworldsaga.com/

Nobody's crying they just want you to come down from the mountain and recognize things you like and things you don't read on principle aren't separated by some arbitrary divide except the one in your own head. But hurr-hurr yeah remember when Marvel did that one shitty story? Boy they sure do suck now.

Okay, to actually talk about comics, I found the latest New Avengers so incredibly frustrating. On the one hand, I'm a big Immonen fan and loved his art in this issue. And it's not that I'm opposed to a cool-down issue after the last arc for everything to sort of get their bearings together. And there were a couple of really funny lines! But then there was the bad stuff that just isn't fun. Stuff like the exact same unfunny joke being used three times in the same issue: both Luke Cage and Wolverine get awkward moments with unexpected women. Luke Cage is a total moron who doesn't have any money but resents the idea of being paid to be an Avenger. It's almost like being paid for being heroic was his M.O. Also there's a scene where a repair bill is so comically low it might as well be for ONE. THOUSAND. DOLLARS. But beyond that, Bendis doesn't push the story forward in any new ways at all. I mean as annoying as Claremont's tics were, when he'd have a whole issue of the team going to town or playing basketball in the mansion or messing around in the Danger Room, there'd always be interludes where we'd see some shadowy figure wringing their hands to set up the next arc. Here there's none of that: Luke just kind of makes a fool of himself for ten pages and then the team hires a babysitter. And I hate that I can't just enjoy a fun break issue, but I just wish he'd bother to have any attempt to lead-in to some long-term story.

Edited January 2, 2011 by the machine

[StevenRichardsRules]

I am annoyed that Batman: Streets of Gotham (18) had like ... 13 pages of story and most of the comic was dedicated to trying to get sales for that Ragman book.

Also, I didn't really dig the Secret Six appearance in Action Comics. Might be because I wasn't familiar with the conflict between Luthor and Papa Savage.

[GoGo Yubari]

Which Action Comics do they appear in? I don't read Superman comics (though I keep meaning to find that Lex Luthor Meets Death issue) but I do hunt down Secret Six appearances.

[StevenRichardsRules]

896. Maybe the new Secret Six will clarify things. It should be out now.

[The Sandman]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=30110

I've always liked Ultimate Spider-Man, pretty much the only Ultimate series i've read constantly and Bagley is probably my favourite artist ever, so this is great news. I've liked the 'different' art in this vol. 2, but still i can't wait for this one. Hopefully he will continue to do it more than just one arc.

Edited January 6, 2011 by The Sandman

[Avenged Probably]

Okay so I got for Christmas a years subscription to Marvel's Digital comics service. I am loving it so far. I trialed it when the first launched it years ago and it was a bit crap then, there were barely any full runs and and reader was buggy as hell.

The reader is fine now and they have pretty much anything up from when the superhero comics started up until stuff as recent as within the last few months. So far I've been reading the entire New X-Men run (not Grant Morrison, the one with the kids), the modern Captain America run and the Rise and Fall of the Shi'Ar Empire story from Uncanny X-Men. So much to read, its rather good. I highly recommend it to anyone, and if you pay a full year up front it costs less than £40.