The Mafia Discussion Thread

[Benjamin]

Tigerstyle's game is up next, right?

[DMN in the House]

Does anyone play at mafiascum? I signed up there, haven't gotten my email yet, but it says you should play your first game there in a newbie game. I'm not sure if I should.

[Pizza]

Hope you like month long day phases .

You probably don't need to do a newbie game, though some game runners won't take you if you haven't done one. They take it super serious over there, it might be worth it to get acclimated to the style.

[Commander Sheepard]

Yeah, I tried to play there once. Didn't particularly enjoy it. I mean, it was fine, but I prefer it here, honestly.

[Tigerstyle]

Rabbits is the next to go live?

I have some tweaking to a role or two and am doing mad overtime the next week so someone is welcome to jump me in sign ups

[Benjamin]

Cool. I'll put my sign-up later tonight, at work now (and by work I mean I'm watching ASE 6 on my tab ).

[phatman]

Is there an order thing for running games? I've got a couple i'd like to run instead of playing at the moment, I feel as though I'd get more enjoyment running than playing lol...

I've seen a few people saying they're up next and what not... Just unsure who is and isn't next and what not...

Either way I'll register my interest for running a game here and yeah I'll be ready whenever it's my turn

[EWB's Best Poster.]

New runners always take a large priority, past that, you get in line and wait.

[phatman]

Yeah I'm cool with that lol I just wanted to know what the actual line was? ... All good...

[Carbonbasedlife]

Okay. So I've been meaning to ask some actual strategy questions in here, and it seems like a good time now.

Two scenarios:

1. You are town and have a town read on a player but everyone else seems to think they are scum. My take has always been that joining the lynch on that player is helpful for town because leaving them alive just causes them to distract town from finding actual scum. If you are wrong and they turn up scum it's a win for town, if you're right and they turn up town they are no longer a distraction. I was lambasted in RW's Marvel mafia for suggesting this approach. Why is it a bad idea?

2. You're town and have a scum read on a much better player. You are alone in believing this player is scum. If you speak up then you end up getting lynched because you can't go one-on-one with a player of this caliber. If you stay quiet you are doing a disservice to town. Staying quiet is self-preservation. But when you know that you are town, isn't self-preservation inherently a good thing since your death would mean that you will not be able to help the town later in the game?

Lastly. Any general advice on how to maintain townie status when going head-to-head with someone much better than you are?

[Gazz]

1. If you think someone is town, you don't vote for them, simple as. Unless they're Mick.

2. Speak. Someone else might agree with your read.

[Pizza]

In case 1, if I'm really confident the guy under suspicion is town, I'd try to push another lynch. Don't let the town do something stupid. But if its just a light hunch, its probably not worth it to fight unless you have a strong scum read on somebody else.

In the second case, self preservation is not the way to go. Find the most damning evidence you can, and be concise. Don't pull up every single post that the guys made with things like "Here's Sousa telling a joke! He does that when he's scum!" if you have hard evidence. Smart scum players will argue your dumbest point and use it to discredit your whole otherwise sensible argument.

[Carbonbasedlife]

Gazz. But haven't you seen situations (I know I have) where someone that has a lot of scum suspicion on them sticks around and ends up finally getting lynched later while actual scum manages to evade?

We even used that in the newbie mafia to set up that domino effect win. Condition at the end. If the day phase hadn't been skipped then Wifey could have joined an easy townie lynch on someone who already had a lot of suspicion and then the dominoes would have fallen anyway.

In the meantime the town is confused because they think that they have a lead that isn't real.

[Carbonbasedlife]

Pizza. Being concise is something that I definitely need to work on.

I often feel that by giving as much information as possible I am building the strongest case, when really it just seems to confuse the point more often than not.

[Commander Sheepard]

Okay. So I've been meaning to ask some actual strategy questions in here, and it seems like a good time now.

Two scenarios:

1. You are town and have a town read on a player but everyone else seems to think they are scum. My take has always been that joining the lynch on that player is helpful for town because leaving them alive just causes them to distract town from finding actual scum. If you are wrong and they turn up scum it's a win for town, if you're right and they turn up town they are no longer a distraction. I was lambasted in RW's Marvel mafia for suggesting this approach. Why is it a bad idea?

2. You're town and have a scum read on a much better player. You are alone in believing this player is scum. If you speak up then you end up getting lynched because you can't go one-on-one with a player of this caliber. If you stay quiet you are doing a disservice to town. Staying quiet is self-preservation. But when you know that you are town, isn't self-preservation inherently a good thing since your death would mean that you will not be able to help the town later in the game?

Lastly. Any general advice on how to maintain townie status when going head-to-head with someone much better than you are?

These are just my personal opinions here, but this is how I see it:

1. If you believe someone is town, you shouldn't be voting for them. Vote for scum, not town players. Obviously you can't know for sure most of the time until their death or endgame, but if you believe they're town, then don't vote. Doing so in fact can be seen as a scum move, since it gives the appearance of trying to "hedge your bet" by leaving open the option of "I knew so-and-so was town all along!" This then muddies the waters even further since (in this particular scenario) now everyone is looking into another town player (you) instead of looking into actual scum.

2. The goal of a town member is not really self preservation, but helping the town to win. If you have a read on a player, no matter their reputation, voice it. Even if no one listens to you right then and even if you die, that read might be helpful farther down the line if someone else notices something. Yes, it's bad that you're dead, but if you can help the town in any way, you do it. That's your ultimate purpose as a townie.

For the last part, assuming that you ARE town of course, just participate, try to make good reads, explain yourself as clearly as you can, and don't get intimidated by a "reputation". Stick to your guns, and you'll be fine.

[EWB's Best Poster.]

If you feel someone is town, you say I think he is town, and I think this guy is scum.

You have given your opinion twice, and that can only help town.

If you think a guy is scum, vote him. Continue to watch his posts, and go back and see what convinced you. Better player? No such thing, if you are right and he is caught. That makes you the better player. You just have to convince others that. Stick to facts, watch for pleas to emotion, attacks and strawmen. In the end, if you die, town gains another piece of evidence. A townie thought this guy was scum and really pushed for it. You can effect a game past your death, and you DONT have to reach end game to be MVP. You just have to be the one working for town the most.

[Carbonbasedlife]

Thanks for the responses everyone.

Rider's response is particularly useful to me since most of the times I have found myself in scenario 2 he's the one that I've had the scum read on.

[DMN in the House]

In scenario 1, my rule of thumb is to never vote for someone I believe to be town. Now, that doesn't mean that I'm against lynching someone in the early game, before I really have a read on them, because I feel they'll be detrimental to the town (sorry, but, eg. Mick), but if I have reason to actually think their town, I usually won't attempt to lynch them, I'll just do my best to convince the town to ignore them. Voting for someone you believe to be town looks really scummy, as does not sticking to your guns. Trust your reads, and put them out there, if nothing else, it will bring more scrutiny to the target.

I basically agree with Rider on scenario 2. If you think someone is scum, then you say so, and you stick to your guns, unless there's overwhelming evidence. Again, trust your read, put it out there, and stick to your guns. Also, if the read happens to be against me, don't take it personally when I call you an idiot >_>

A townie's goal is not self-preservation. A townie's goal is for the town to win the game.

[C-MIL]

Okay. So I've been meaning to ask some actual strategy questions in here, and it seems like a good time now.

Two scenarios:

1. You are town and have a town read on a player but everyone else seems to think they are scum. My take has always been that joining the lynch on that player is helpful for town because leaving them alive just causes them to distract town from finding actual scum. If you are wrong and they turn up scum it's a win for town, if you're right and they turn up town they are no longer a distraction. I was lambasted in RW's Marvel mafia for suggesting this approach. Why is it a bad idea?

If you lynch somebody you think is town, all it proves is that you don't care about lynching townies... which makes you scum. If the tide against a player is so strong you can't turn it around, they'll get the lynch done without your vote. Jumping on a lynch you don't believe in only alleviates the mafia's pressure to railroad.

2. You're town and have a scum read on a much better player. You are alone in believing this player is scum. If you speak up then you end up getting lynched because you can't go one-on-one with a player of this caliber. If you stay quiet you are doing a disservice to town. Staying quiet is self-preservation. But when you know that you are town, isn't self-preservation inherently a good thing since your death would mean that you will not be able to help the town later in the game?

Depends entirely on what the scum read is based on. If you pressuring them with a vote turns into "one-on-one", chances are they'll come off looking scummy to everybody else too. Good players don't fall for that or resort to OMGUS.

Lastly. Any general advice on how to maintain townie status when going head-to-head with someone much better than you are?

Answer their questions honestly and question them back, then challenge their answers. Again, if it's truly "head-to-head", you have to consider disengaging from that. Rarely does a "him or me" situation end up without 1) both players being lynched and 2) both players turning up town.

[Mick]

1. You are town and have a town read on a player but everyone else seems to think they are scum. My take has always been that joining the lynch on that player is helpful for town because leaving them alive just causes them to distract town from finding actual scum. If you are wrong and they turn up scum it's a win for town, if you're right and they turn up town they are no longer a distraction. I was lambasted in RW's Marvel mafia for suggesting this approach. Why is it a bad idea?

It's a bad idea because it's, fundamentally, a number games. You can be pretty sure that if there's a bandwagon forming, scum is in on it, and all a person has to do is look at it, and although you're a small blip, you're still on the radar. Your best bet is to say "I'm not sure", because you really aren't. I wouldn't vote for someone I have a town read on, even if others are convinced they're scum; I'd let the blood be on their hands, not mine. Maybe it's a conscience thing. I'd vote for whoever I think is scummy, and let them hammer away.

2. You're town and have a scum read on a much better player. You are alone in believing this player is scum. If you speak up then you end up getting lynched because you can't go one-on-one with a player of this caliber. If you stay quiet you are doing a disservice to town. Staying quiet is self-preservation. But when you know that you are town, isn't self-preservation inherently a good thing since your death would mean that you will not be able to help the town later in the game?

Empirical evidence! Anything they post can and will be used against them. I'm not the best at convincing people, so what I have to do is pretty much try to show people why. Basically, build your case as best you can against them, do everything you can to show they're scum, and just hope other people get convinced.

Lastly. Any general advice on how to maintain townie status when going head-to-head with someone much better than you are?

Be consistent and don't screw up; think things through as clearly as you can. Harder than it sounds .