**SPOILERS** Why leveling up in RPGs isn't fun...

[Mick]

I'm no stranger to the classic RPG's of the old days. Final Fantasy, the Dragon Warrior NES series, D&D; they all had pretty tough bosses which would put you into a total fight to the death. I'm talking everyone in the party is dead except for one near death character that doesn't have enough MP to cast the spell that will seal the deal, and you scream "PLEASE GOD!" as you helplessly pick the "Fight" command, hoping to score the mortal hit.

Games which have done this to me include Final Fantasy VI, Dragon Warrior II.

Final Fantasy VI is the last Final Fantasy game I played. I didn't have a PS back when VII was released, and the PC copy my dad bought just didn't want to cooperate.

The game was straight-forward enough, my first real test was against the Atma Weapon; I was in 5th grade at the time and was pretty much clueless about the various gitches in the game. Eventually I destroyed the foul beast thanks to Cyan, and ladda-dadda-da, I'm in the World of Ruin, going about collecting the characters so I could settle some unfinished business with Kefka. Even with my core 5 fighters (Sabin, Mog, Cyan, Gogo and Edgar), the second tier against Kefka was a bitch, usually taking 3/4 of the group out, leaving me with subpar people to battle the thrid tier and then Kefka. I did triumph sooner or later, and then put the game to rest knowing that I had beaten it.

Well, I didn't take my eyes off the game. Through 6th grade I began reading up on it, learning various secrets, and took it out again, and proceeded to whoop ass, beating the game much more easily then before.

Years passed before I played it again, this time on an emulator.

Well, knowing just how tough it was, I set out to turn my group of 12 (soon to be 14) into the ulitmate group of baddasses that ever graced the World of Ruin. It was pretty boring. It wasn't challenging. Well, so much for that, and I'm not really one with the patience for the "Special Run-Through" type quests...

ONTO: Dragon Warrior II

Dragon Warrior II is arguably the toughest of the NES Dragon Warrior games; while the first is tough enough as it was, you were fortunate enough to fight only against one enemy at a time. Dragon Warrior II brought groups of baddies in.

I remember this game as the bane of my existence when my dad bought a copy. Me, my brother, and my dad all cooperated together to defeat Hargon's minions. The Cave to Rhone was a bitch, the road to Hargon's Castle a pain in the ass, and strangley, the castle wasn't too tough. Even Hargon didn't put up much of a fight.

Enter: Malroth.

This motherfucker made me hate Dragon Warrior II. After tossing out Hargon, you get to fight this fearsome monster; the bout would be equaled in wrestling terms of Duane Gill vs Big Show. To be completley honest, nobody in my family could dispatch him. Dragon Warrior II beat us.

No matter what you did, the monster would always get the best of you. It seemed that he loved to make you suffer, targeting the Prince of Cannock first off. This dude had the worst attack of your three (Seeing how the Prince of Midenhall was your generic 'Have Sword, chop motherfucker down' type, and the Princess had some serious offensive magic); ironiclaly, he was the only one that knew "Revive" that could bring one of your dead cousins back to life. Without him, you were pretty screwed.

So, let's say that Malroth kills off one of the other two companions (or both ). You decide to cast Revive. Hurray, one of your buddies is back. Then Malroth hits his scorching breath, putting you both into the grave. Did I mention that Revive only gives the revived one hit point?

So, recently, (the past couple days in fact), I get the ROM, and proceed to take on this monster of a game again. I know damn well what awaits me, and thanks to the world of the internet, I went though all the various little subquests, and took the time to reach the maximum levels allowed by the game. I wanted to teach this bastard a lesson, while still hoping for a battle to the death. Hell, he was tough enough.

So, I get to him, and the battle goes through pretty quick. My jaw dropped at how easily I defeated him. In fact, right now I'll take a pause from this to see how many rounds it takes to kill this prick....

Five. Five rounds, with only the main warrior attacking.

So, all in all, my suggestion to those of you that love the RPGs, is to enjoy the challenge of the game and not do excessive leveling up. Yes, it will make the game a lot easier, but you will not enjoy it as much.

That said...

I GOT YOU MOTHERFUCKA! I GOT YOU! WHO DA MAN? WHO DA MAN? MICK DA MAN! OHHHHH YEAH, SNAP IN TO A SLIM JIM, DIG IT!

[Guest Kou]

You mean I shouldn't be level 50 in FF12 before getting to Nalbina?

[Gongsun Zan]

Personally, I hate the grinding style of leveling up, that involves running around aimlessly fighting the same beasts again and again and again and again just so you can take care of the next boss. To me, I find such a system incredibly obtrusive, basically a cheap way to increase the playtime of such games.

I think DnD is far better in this regard, giving you XP from completing sidequests. It makes you feel as though you've accomplished something, and gives the designers an excuse to add a few dozen sidequests, which most JPRGs tend to lack.

Or even better, the system Oblivion uses. Everything you do counts towards leveling up, so your character develops according to the way you play.

[Benji]

Personally, I hate the grinding style of leveling up, that involves running around aimlessly fighting the same beasts again and again and again and again just so you can take care of the next boss. To me, I find such a system incredibly obtrusive, basically a cheap way to increase the playtime of such games.

I think DnD is far better in this regard, giving you XP from completing sidequests. It makes you feel as though you've accomplished something, and gives the designers an excuse to add a few dozen sidequests, which most JPRGs tend to lack.

Or even better, the system Oblivion uses. Everything you do counts towards leveling up, so your character develops according to the way you play.

Echo'd on every account.

[Skummy]

Other than ridiculous optional bosses, and occassionally Demon Gate in FF7, no Final Fantasy game has ever given me much difficulty in the way of levelling up...you tend to end up just about the right levels you need to be at the right moments if you just play through normally. The only exception is FF5, which had a horrible learning curve.

[Momo]

Other than ridiculous optional bosses, and occassionally Demon Gate in FF7, no Final Fantasy game has ever given me much difficulty in the way of levelling up...you tend to end up just about the right levels you need to be at the right moments if you just play through normally. The only exception is FF5, which had a horrible learning curve.

Edited January 28, 2007 by The Prototype

[Skummy]

I don't want to drag this into a "which Final Fantasy game is better", but I've always failed to see how anyone could prefer 8 to 7 or 9. It's one of the weakest of the whole franchise, in my opinion. Nine I do absolutely adore, though, I'm playing it now and I'd forgotten just how good it was...the storyline is a little weaker than Seven, but it's much more fun to play, and it's a fantastic send-off to the Final Fantasies of old.

[Momo]

I don't want to drag this into a "which Final Fantasy game is better", but I've always failed to see how anyone could prefer 8 to 7 or 9. It's one of the weakest of the whole franchise, in my opinion. Nine I do absolutely adore, though, I'm playing it now and I'd forgotten just how good it was...the storyline is a little weaker than Seven, but it's much more fun to play, and it's a fantastic send-off to the Final Fantasies of old.

[Skummy]

I also like Jumbo Cactuar's moustache.

That's all the reason I needed.

[Chris the Human]

I think DnD is far better in this regard, giving you XP from completing sidequests. It makes you feel as though you've accomplished something, and gives the designers an excuse to add a few dozen sidequests, which most JPRGs tend to lack.

[Momo]

I also like Jumbo Cactuar's moustache.

That's all the reason I needed.

Edited January 28, 2007 by The Prototype

[Draevyn]

I actually don't mind leveling up as long as there are items to get while doing it. But I still usually just find the monsters with the most experience and go after them, like the T-Rex's at the training center in FFVIII inside the Garden. And on that note, I will mention that eight is my favourite Final Fantasy game, followed by nine and then seven. I always thought Squall and Seifer's in game chemistry was cool.

[Farmer Reil]

Or even better, the system Oblivion uses. Everything you do counts towards leveling up, so your character develops according to the way you play.

[Gongsun Zan]

Or even better, the system Oblivion uses. Everything you do counts towards leveling up, so your character develops according to the way you play.

You mean the system where levelling up doesn't actually matter, since the enemies scale to your level anyway?

[NobBe Nobbs]

I actually don't mind leveling up as long as there are items to get while doing it. But I still usually just find the monsters with the most experience and go after them, like the T-Rex's at the training center in FFVIII inside the Garden. And on that note, I will mention that eight is my favourite Final Fantasy game, followed by nine and then seven. I always thought Squall and Seifer's in game chemistry was cool.

[Skummy]

Okay, so you can add Ark in FF9 to the list of bosses I should have been at a much higher level before fighting >_<

That said, I think it had more to do with the fact that I paid no attention to what Kuja said.

"Magic block you say? Vivi, Quina, Dagger, come with me!"

[Robsturgh]

Or even better, the system Oblivion uses. Everything you do counts towards leveling up, so your character develops according to the way you play.

You mean the system where levelling up doesn't actually matter, since the enemies scale to your level anyway?

[Benji]

Other than ridiculous optional bosses, and occassionally Demon Gate in FF7, no Final Fantasy game has ever given me much difficulty in the way of levelling up...you tend to end up just about the right levels you need to be at the right moments if you just play through normally. The only exception is FF5, which had a horrible learning curve.

Yeah, I've found that too, although I still didn't have to level up to defeat Demon Gate. Don't get me wrong, he was a bastard to beat, but I didn't lose to him once, and as a result, have never had to level up to do it.

Generally speaking though, I've only played FF7 once, and although it wasn't a bad game, I still fail to see why it's seen as the best of the Final Fantasy Series on PSX. In my unbiased ( ) opinion, 9 is the much better, and even 8 ranks higher.

IX > VIII > VII

But seven was so groundbreaking at the time it's definately the most important of any Final Fantasy, perhaps even any video game bar Super Mario. The thing with VIII is that it's such a damned clever game that it makes it a dumb game, although 'drawing' was shit, the actual rest of the game was a solid shot to me.

[Skummy]

I just don't see any appeal in 8. It's the worst of any Final Fantasy since the NES games, in my opinion. There's too much plodding backwards and forwards, especially early on, and the storyline is dire, especially the memory loss/GF connection, which just seemed desperate to me, whereas 7 has a genuinely deep and interesting story, and 9 has a generic Final Fantasy story, but executed to perfection, and with gameplay good enough to overlook its shortcomings, and some brilliant characters, most notably Vivi. All that, on top of an incredibly unlikable main character, a horrible battle/magic system, an ugly menu system, and a load of secrets that are physically impossible to stumble upon naturally while playing the game, meaning you need a strategy guide for some of them...optional bosses that are just ridiculously hard with a disproportionate reward, even by Final Fantasy optional boss standards, and even the card game, while good, has its failings, again falling under the "need a strategy guide" banner. Wait...so to get one card, I need to get another, lose it to a specific person at a specific point in the game, and then and only then will an unrelated character on the other side of the world use the card I want? Oh, I should have known, it's so simple!

Edited January 28, 2007 by Zeta (TAFKA Skummy)

[Farmer Reil]

Vivi sucks. It's just Orko from He-Man, but far more pointless and annoying