Manhunt 2 banned in the UK

[Robsturgh]

There was a kid who lived down the street from me when I used to live on the south coast, when Silent Hill first came out he couldnt wait to get it (he was 11) and kept rubbing it in my face that his parents would let him have it and mine wouldn't. A day after he got the game, he offered it to me cause he said it was "boring" and I dont think he ever played it again. Or bought any 18+s for a long time.

But more to the point, it is entirely the parents whos responsibility it is, which is why this banning is a crock of arse, I mean Manhunt is a shit game, and I expect Manhunt II to be, but if a 9 year old kid plays the came and decides its fun to murderdeathkill, then its ultimatly the parents fault (or in the case that a salesman sold it to him, its his fault but I digress).

[- Trips -]

As I constantly have the threat of a prison sentence and a hefty fine hanging over me for selling games to underage children this kinda thing is really important to me.

I've had parents coming in and buying Manhunt and then handing it to their 7 year old kid. It REALLY REALLY angers me and frankly such parents should be given the same punishment as I'd receive (year in prison, £6000 fine).

If you're 18 it's up to you. Irresponsible salesfolk and parents are dragging everyone down.

Still, for me Manhunt's stupid and pointless and disgusting anyway.

Aren't you covered byt he fact you are selling it to the parent? What they choose to do with it (whether it be keep it or hand it over to a child) is their responsibilty rathert han yours. Isn't it?

[zero]

but if a 9 year old kid plays the came and decides its fun to murderdeathkill, then its ultimatly the parents fault (or in the case that a salesman sold it to him, its his fault but I digress).

But see, that's the thing. No one has ever played a video game and decided to "murderdeathkill." Not with video games, movies, music, books, plays, radio shows, podcasts, Broadway shows, YouTube videos or anything. Never. Ever. Never. Period. It has never been proven, yet for whatever reason, we still just assume it to be true. When it can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, and not just by some psychologist trying to get his name published, then I'll be on board. Until then, it is merely a parenting decision on what they believe is appropriate for their child, not protecting us from Columbine Part 2.

[Turbo Yannis]

I find it a bit odd that working in Tesco, when I'm suspicious that someone's buying alcohol for someone that's underage, I've got the right to refuse the sale (sort of) but when it comes to games, there's nothing against it. Doesn't really make much sense to me.

[zero]

I find it a bit odd that working in Tesco, when I'm suspicious that someone's buying alcohol for someone that's underage, I've got the right to refuse the sale (sort of) but when it comes to games, there's nothing against it. Doesn't really make much sense to me.

That's because there's a law for underage drinking, there's no law for underage gaming. Nor should there be - store policies are one thing, but making it into a law? Laughable.

Edited June 19, 2007 by Zero

[Guest chatterbox]

I don't play the Manhunt games, but i think it is pretty stupid to ban a game. I think the responsibility lies with the parents to make sure their child does not receive the game. Anyone 18 and up will not be influenced by such things. And if they are, they have mental health issues.

[Vilge Duin]

If a parent wishes to purchase an M (or equivalent) rated game or an R (or equivalent) rated movie, or music or anything of the such. That's their legal right and no one, including you, should have a say in if they want to buy their child the product.

Alcohol is a legally controlled substance by the government. Big difference. Media is not. The ratings boards (at least in the US and Canada) are guidelines. They are not mandated by the government as necessary.

Alcohol, or any substance of the like, is. Giving a kid GTA for his birthday is not even close to the same as providing him with beer or liquor.

I was watching Freddy dice people up as a kid and watching Arnold blow away many a badguy. I also saw Robert Deniro brain a guy with a baseball bat in The Untouchables and I witness *shock* *horror* breasts and the like in Basic Instinct. I also played Mortal Kombat and Doom and various other games. My parents were neither delinquents nor idiots. They understood what they were doing and taught me properly.

There has never once been a proven substantial link between violent or "objectionable" media and resulting behaviour.

Playing Manhunt won't make you kill someone or even likely want to. A disturbed person with violent tendencies may seek the game out to get their fill, but the game won't make them do it.

[ChrisSteeleAteMyHamster]

If a parent wishes to purchase an M (or equivalent) rated game or an R (or equivalent) rated movie, or music or anything of the such. That's their legal right and no one, including you, should have a say in if they want to buy their child the product.

Alcohol is a legally controlled substance by the government. Big difference. Media is not. The ratings boards (at least in the US and Canada) are guidelines. They are not mandated by the government as necessary.

Alcohol, or any substance of the like, is. Giving a kid GTA for his birthday is not even close to the same as providing him with beer or liquor.

I was watching Freddy dice people up as a kid and watching Arnold blow away many a badguy. I also saw Robert Deniro brain a guy with a baseball bat in The Untouchables and I witness *shock* *horror* breasts and the like in Basic Instinct. I also played Mortal Kombat and Doom and various other games. My parents were neither delinquents nor idiots. They understood what they were doing and taught me properly.

There has never once been a proven substantial link between violent or "objectionable" media and resulting behaviour.

Playing Manhunt won't make you kill someone or even likely want to. A disturbed person with violent tendencies may seek the game out to get their fill, but the game won't make them do it.

Puhlease.

Jamie Bulger's 10 year old killers were pretty heavily linked to watching Childs Play 3 (the father of one of them had rented it out the week before and the killing was pretty much exactly the same as one of the deaths in the movie.)

Loads of stuff comes from an abstraction of movies, video games, music and role models. EVERYTHING we watch, listen to and do will have an unconscious impact in our minds. You can't blame a game neccesarily for such matters but as a part of an aggressive society, bad parenting and a disgraceful home life, it all adds up.

Which is why I'm more against video games for underage than I used to be. I think more so than movies. I've overheard one kid talking to another about GTA: SA - "Yeah, this is the one where you shoot people and run over prostitutes and deal drugs n stuff." "Yeah?! That's so f***ing cool". Coming from 8 year olds I don't care what you say but that's wrong.

So sure, parents can do whatever they want for their kids. They can get 'em 18 certificate games, watch porn with them or slap 'em around a bit...It's up to them.

Edited June 19, 2007 by ChrisSteeleAteMyHamster

[Vilge Duin]

If a parent wishes to purchase an M (or equivalent) rated game or an R (or equivalent) rated movie, or music or anything of the such. That's their legal right and no one, including you, should have a say in if they want to buy their child the product.

Alcohol is a legally controlled substance by the government. Big difference. Media is not. The ratings boards (at least in the US and Canada) are guidelines. They are not mandated by the government as necessary.

Alcohol, or any substance of the like, is. Giving a kid GTA for his birthday is not even close to the same as providing him with beer or liquor.

I was watching Freddy dice people up as a kid and watching Arnold blow away many a badguy. I also saw Robert Deniro brain a guy with a baseball bat in The Untouchables and I witness *shock* *horror* breasts and the like in Basic Instinct. I also played Mortal Kombat and Doom and various other games. My parents were neither delinquents nor idiots. They understood what they were doing and taught me properly.

There has never once been a proven substantial link between violent or "objectionable" media and resulting behaviour.

Playing Manhunt won't make you kill someone or even likely want to. A disturbed person with violent tendencies may seek the game out to get their fill, but the game won't make them do it.

Jamie Bulger's 10 year old killers were pretty heavily linked to watching Childs Play 3 (the father of one of them had rented it out the week before and the killing was pretty much exactly the same as one of the deaths in the movie.)

Edited June 19, 2007 by Vilge Duin

[Clawson]

Going back to the original article, wasn't it proven that the killer of the kid had never played Manhunt? So you know that whole thing is a mute point.

[ChrisSteeleAteMyHamster]

If a parent wishes to purchase an M (or equivalent) rated game or an R (or equivalent) rated movie, or music or anything of the such. That's their legal right and no one, including you, should have a say in if they want to buy their child the product.

Alcohol is a legally controlled substance by the government. Big difference. Media is not. The ratings boards (at least in the US and Canada) are guidelines. They are not mandated by the government as necessary.

Alcohol, or any substance of the like, is. Giving a kid GTA for his birthday is not even close to the same as providing him with beer or liquor.

I was watching Freddy dice people up as a kid and watching Arnold blow away many a badguy. I also saw Robert Deniro brain a guy with a baseball bat in The Untouchables and I witness *shock* *horror* breasts and the like in Basic Instinct. I also played Mortal Kombat and Doom and various other games. My parents were neither delinquents nor idiots. They understood what they were doing and taught me properly.

There has never once been a proven substantial link between violent or "objectionable" media and resulting behaviour.

Playing Manhunt won't make you kill someone or even likely want to. A disturbed person with violent tendencies may seek the game out to get their fill, but the game won't make them do it.

Jamie Bulger's 10 year old killers were pretty heavily linked to watching Childs Play 3 (the father of one of them had rented it out the week before and the killing was pretty much exactly the same as one of the deaths in the movie.)

THAT is the exactly reasoning that "professional" psychologists, lawyers like Jack Thompson and politicians use to try and censor everything.

Any child, or person, who acts upon something they view already has a predisposed nature to do said action anyways. The media didn't do it. It's a knee jerk reaction that blame anything for the cause of something. Old Boy was quickly blamed for the Virginia Tech shooting just recently.

Child A who has had a proper upbringing and is a well adjusted child isn't going to go on a massacre or garrote his friend because he played Hitman. Child B who has angle and temper issues along with coming from a "broken home" may play a game and decide to go enact it. The game didn't do it though, everything surrounding the child culminated in it.

That's all I'm saying.

It's the same theory censors used years ago against Bugs Bunny in regards to anvils, or Elvis for his hip gyrations. Something always needs to be the scapegoat, when it isn't always the case.

EDIT: After looking into it...

Your whole stance doesn't matter. The BBC news stated at the time that they hadn't watched it, and the officers involved then affirmed that neither child had seen the movie. They also stated that they checked the rental lists of the step-father and he hadn't even rented the movie, let alone anything they could find that could link to the murder.

Those two children were the by-product of their upbringing, not a movie.

It WAS proven though that one of the kids especially was bought up pretty pathetically by his parents and was often allowed to watch 18 cert horror movies with his old man.

[therockbox]

So? The point still stands, I watched plenty of horror movies when I was younger, but I didn't go out and kidnap and torture anyone.

[Vilge Duin]

Well regardless of any of this...

Manhunt 2 just got slapped with the proverbial kiss of death over here...

Manhunt 2 receives AO rating

ESRB tags Rockstar sequel with Adults Only initial rating; Take-Two now exploring its options.

By Brendan Sinclair, GameSpot

Posted Jun 19, 2007 5:44 pm ET

Earlier today, the British Board of Film Classification gave Manhunt 2 a thumbs down, banning it from sale in the UK due to its "unremitting bleakness" and "casual sadism." Now it appears the Entertainment Software Rating Board is ready to hand down its own most restrictive rating to the latest controversial offering from Take-Two Interactive and Rockstar Games.

A Take-Two representative told GameSpot today that the ESRB has issued an initial rating of AO for Adults Only to Manhunt 2. While not an outright ban, the rating would severely limit a game's sales potential, as most major American retailers have chosen not to carry games rated AO.

As for the reason this is only an "initial" rating, when the ESRB rates a game, it notifies the publisher 30 days prior to publicly releasing its decision. This gives publishers unhappy with ratings the chance to either modify their games and resubmit them for a second assessment, or go before the ESRB's appeals board to challenge it directly.

"We believe the process of rating video games is to help people make informed entertainment choices and not to limit them," a Take-Two representative said. "Manhunt 2 was created for mature audiences and we strongly believe it should receive an M (Mature) rating, aligning it with similar content created in other forms of media. We are exploring our options with regard to the rating of Manhunt 2."

While Take-Two doesn't agree with the idea of an AO-rated Manhunt 2, one parent watchdog group believes it's only appropriate. Earlier today, Campaign for a Commercial-Free Childhood demanded that the ESRB give Manhunt 2 an AO rating, saying that "harmful effects of ultra-violent video games on children will be magnified by playing them on the interactive Nintendo Wii system."

The group's announcement contained a statement from Dr. Michael Rich, director of the Center on Media and Child Health at Children's Hospital Boston, who explained, "The content of Manhunt 2 and the unique physical interaction with the Wii control combine to take [the game's simulation] a level closer to reality--we can expect that the effects of this experience will be even greater."

The group directed like-minded individuals to contact ESRB president Patricia Vance with their concerns, and Vance today issued her response.

"We have received the letter from CCFC and, while we might take issue with some of the statements made within, we sincerely appreciate their expressed concerns," Vance said. "Our ratings are intended to provide guidance that allows parents to choose games they deem suitable for their children, and that is a responsibility we take extremely seriously."

Manhunt 2 is currently slated for a July 10 release on the PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable, and Wii. For more on the game, check out GameSpot's previous coverage.

Edited June 19, 2007 by Vilge Duin

[Captain Kirk]

While Take-Two doesn't agree with the idea of an AO-rated Manhunt 2, one parent watchdog group believes it's only appropriate. Earlier today, Campaign for a Commercial-Free Childhood demanded that the ESRB give Manhunt 2 an AO rating, saying that "harmful effects of ultra-violent video games on children will be magnified by playing them on the interactive Nintendo Wii system."

[Skummy]

I'm not an expert on this kind of thing, but I'd think that an AO rating limits the amount of potential stockists.

[ChrisSteeleAteMyHamster]

Yeah. A lot of stores go nowhere near games with such a rating.

[Quom]

That has gotta suck. Imagine spending all that time in development on a game that now pretty much can't/won't be sold anywhere except for American sites on the 'net. Surely Rockstar are gonna have to delay the game and make serious tweakages?

[zero]

Jamie Bulger's 10 year old killers were pretty heavily linked to watching Childs Play 3 (the father of one of them had rented it out the week before and the killing was pretty much exactly the same as one of the deaths in the movie.)

OH COME ON!!!

Jamie Bulger's killers: One grew up in a family of seven children where his father routinely sexually assaulted and beat the shit out of them. The other grew up in a family with a history of mental handicaps and their mother once left her children unattended for several hours when the oldest of them was only seven years old.

The murders MAY have shared some similarities with Child's Play 3, but to say it caused them is absolutely ridiculous. If you have people that are already mentally disturbed, then yes, media may influence the methods in which they use to play out their fantasies, but cause? No. Why should we have to regulate media based on what crazy people do? I guess we shouldn't sell Bibles anymore because sometimes lunatics read them and claim Satan is telling them to kill people.

As for the AO rating... I roll my eyes. I don't get how video games (which look like cartoons) have to follow this strict ratings policy, while you can have blood spilling out all over the place from real people in movies like Hostel or Saw. Meanwhile, a DVD can come out in stores in a special "Unrated" version with even more blood and guts and places like Wal-Mart have no problem selling those; but if a video game gets an AO rating, it's treated like hardcore porn. It's such a ridiculous double-standard simply because video games are perceived as toys despite the average player being 30 years old. Bullshit.

Edited June 20, 2007 by Zero

[Steeb]

On a semi-related note, Law & Order: Double Or Nothing has been removed from shelves over here, over complaints that it apparantly contains CCTV footage of Jamie Bulger's abduction.

[Toe]

I'm going to get this game BECAUSE it is rated AO. That is so fucking cool!