NFL 2008

[mystikz]

so you'd rather have an old out of shape quarterback that has been terrible for 3-4 years than someone that's not great but atleast knows the offense and who is called a good leader by his teammates? O'Sulivan is O'sucky but he's a better option than Culpepper. As someone suggested JP Losman wouldn't be bad, or any of the bucs qb's since they'll have to cut some.

[MyKILLv2.0]

... or any of the bucs qb's since they'll have to cut some.

Chris Simms would be okay...

Edited August 21, 2008 by MikelSweeten

[Toe]

so you'd rather have an old out of shape quarterback that has been terrible for 3-4 years than someone that's not great but atleast knows the offense and who is called a good leader by his teammates? O'Sulivan is O'sucky but he's a better option than Culpepper. As someone suggested JP Losman wouldn't be bad, or any of the bucs qb's since they'll have to cut some.

I was kidding about Losman. You guys cant have him - he is too sexy for you.

[VerbalPuke]

Mike Martz isn't an idiot. He was pass happy in St. Louis and Detroit because he could be, he had the tools to do it. San Francisco lacks the quarterbacks and the recievers to run such an offense.

He cost the Lions games by abandoning the run for no apparent reason. There were games in which Kevin Jones had gotten off to a great start and suddenly we'd just stop running. This lead to a loss of clock control, more three and outs, and by proxy our defense would be on the field longer.

[Maxx]

Mike Martz isn't an idiot. He was pass happy in St. Louis and Detroit because he could be, he had the tools to do it. San Francisco lacks the quarterbacks and the recievers to run such an offense.

He cost the Lions games by abandoning the run for no apparent reason. There were games in which Kevin Jones had gotten off to a great start and suddenly we'd just stop running. This lead to a loss of clock control, more three and outs, and by proxy our defense would be on the field longer.

And he had Kitna throwing and Roy Williams, Calvin Johnson and Mike Furrey recieving. An arguement could at least be made that hey, we've got the talent to pass. No such arguement exists in San Francisco, not even amongst Niners fans.

O'Sullivan is a better option than Culpepper at this point by far. They're pretty much equal nowadays, except O'Sullivan has shown less of a tendency to get injured. Career backups have been making good for awhile now in the NFL. Delhomme was just a backup, more recently Damon Huard and Todd Collins performed just fine. You can't know how good someone is untill they're given the chance to start. Yeah O'Sullivan hasn't beaten out anyone in the past, but it sure looks like he's doing it now. Granted its the Niners and its not much competition, but still.

You're ignoring the fact that Culpepper sans Moss has never shown any real ability. Its entirely possible that with Daunte it was the case of reciever making quarterback.

[MyKILLv2.0]

See, I just disagree with you. We agree on the points you make about Culpeper... I do not dispute that. But I keep on getting preached at like I'm driving the Culpepper to Canton bus. I'm not saying Culpepper is great anymore. In fact, I think I stated that he should be a back up on a good team. However I'm saying that O'Sullivan isn't very good and shouldn't be the starter for the Niners. He is by no means a drastic improvement over Alex Smith (I don't know if he is an improvement at all, honestly). He has shown NOTHING in the NFL execpt that he couldn't ever get on the field. You claim they are equal... I ask you how? Culpepper may very well be in later stages of his career where he should be a back up, but O'Sullivan has yet to proven he is even that good. Your defense was that he didn't have the injury problems of Culpepper... of course he isn't going to get injured... you very seldom get injured standing on sidelines holdinga clip board and a water bottle. And even in preseason he doesn't look impressive. He makes horribles reads, and throws terrible picks.

... with all of this said, he will probably go out tonight and throw three touchdowns, and make me look retard.

[punky]

Maybe you should give the guy a couple starts in the actual, you know, regular season before you throw him under the bus? I don't think the guy is good either, I actually think that Alex Smith could be a good QB if they ever gave him a steady Offensive Coordinator, but who thought that Kurt Warner or Jake Delhomme would ever be solid starters in the NFL?

[Maxx]

Lets play the game of name a QB who wasn't good enough to be a starter, and only got to see action due to injury or poor play by the starter!

Marc Bulger, 3 Pro Bowl Appearences! Never earned the starting job and probably never would have if Warner didn't get injured.

Tony Romo, 2 Pro Bowl Appearences! Undrafted, never won the starting job untill Drew Bledsoe proved inept halfway through a season.

Tom Brady, 4 Pro Bowls, 3 Super Bowl Wins, 2 Super Bowl MVP Awards! And he never earned the starting job.

You never know what someone can do untill they actually get placed in the role of starting QB, however it may happen. Some people are late bloomers, Drew Brees was bad enough that the Chargers were ready to replace him, then things clicked for him and now he's a Pro Bowl caliber QB. O'Sullivan is winning the job fair and square, you can't shit on him and say he's a horrible QB untill he actually proves that he is.

This isn't to say I don't think he'll suck, its just stupid to claim that since he's yet to earn a starting job in the NFL he's a terrible player.

[Toe]

Lets play the game of name a QB who wasn't good enough to be a starter, and only got to see action due to injury or poor play by the starter!

Marc Bulger, 3 Pro Bowl Appearences! Never earned the starting job and probably never would have if Warner didn't get injured.

Tony Romo, 2 Pro Bowl Appearences! Undrafted, never won the starting job untill Drew Bledsoe proved inept halfway through a season.

Tom Brady, 4 Pro Bowls, 3 Super Bowl Wins, 2 Super Bowl MVP Awards! And he never earned the starting job.

You never know what someone can do untill they actually get placed in the role of starting QB, however it may happen. Some people are late bloomers, Drew Brees was bad enough that the Chargers were ready to replace him, then things clicked for him and now he's a Pro Bowl caliber QB. O'Sullivan is winning the job fair and square, you can't shit on him and say he's a horrible QB untill he actually proves that he is.

This isn't to say I don't think he'll suck, its just stupid to claim that since he's yet to earn a starting job in the NFL he's a terrible player.

Add Derek Anderson to the list. Frye sucked and he got a shot and it worked.

[MyKILLv2.0]

Lets play the game of name a QB who wasn't good enough to be a starter, and only got to see action due to injury or poor play by the starter!

Marc Bulger, 3 Pro Bowl Appearences! Never earned the starting job and probably never would have if Warner didn't get injured.

Tony Romo, 2 Pro Bowl Appearences! Undrafted, never won the starting job untill Drew Bledsoe proved inept halfway through a season.

Tom Brady, 4 Pro Bowls, 3 Super Bowl Wins, 2 Super Bowl MVP Awards! And he never earned the starting job.

You never know what someone can do untill they actually get placed in the role of starting QB, however it may happen. Some people are late bloomers, Drew Brees was bad enough that the Chargers were ready to replace him, then things clicked for him and now he's a Pro Bowl caliber QB. O'Sullivan is winning the job fair and square, you can't shit on him and say he's a horrible QB untill he actually proves that he is.

This isn't to say I don't think he'll suck, its just stupid to claim that since he's yet to earn a starting job in the NFL he's a terrible player.

There's a major flaw with that train of thought. Tom Bradey, Tony Romo, & Marc Bulger were all drafted by their teams (Romo signed as an unrestricted rookie). Now were they expected to come in and be a franchise quarterbacks? No... but after being drafted, their teams quickly realized they had something special in each of them, and believed they could help the team in some fashion. There were talks of Romo being prep'd as a started for about a full year before he took over for Bledsoe, so it isn't like either of these three guys blindsided anyone with being successful. Maybe to the degree that they were successful, but its not like any of these guys were thought to be complete bums once their teams saw them.

O'Sullivan on the other hand has been on eight different teams in six years.... so I wouldn't say that the teams that he has played for hold him in as high regard as Romo, Brady, or Bulger when they were unproven.

In fact, about the only "journeymen" type quarterback I can think of in the NFL right now who is even comparible to O'Sullivan in terms of being totally unproven, and played for multiple teams, is Derek Anderson (who Toe pointed out), who only played for one previous team... the Ravens, and ya know, it's not like the Ravens have a clue about quarterbacks either.

Edited August 22, 2008 by MikelSweeten

[Toe]

I think its time for Doug Flutie to make another comeback. I just want some Flutie Flakes, really.

[Maxx]

Lets play the game of name a QB who wasn't good enough to be a starter, and only got to see action due to injury or poor play by the starter!

Marc Bulger, 3 Pro Bowl Appearences! Never earned the starting job and probably never would have if Warner didn't get injured.

Tony Romo, 2 Pro Bowl Appearences! Undrafted, never won the starting job untill Drew Bledsoe proved inept halfway through a season.

Tom Brady, 4 Pro Bowls, 3 Super Bowl Wins, 2 Super Bowl MVP Awards! And he never earned the starting job.

You never know what someone can do untill they actually get placed in the role of starting QB, however it may happen. Some people are late bloomers, Drew Brees was bad enough that the Chargers were ready to replace him, then things clicked for him and now he's a Pro Bowl caliber QB. O'Sullivan is winning the job fair and square, you can't shit on him and say he's a horrible QB untill he actually proves that he is.

This isn't to say I don't think he'll suck, its just stupid to claim that since he's yet to earn a starting job in the NFL he's a terrible player.

There's a major flaw with that train of thought. Tom Bradey, Tony Romo, & Marc Bulger were all drafted by their teams (Romo signed as an unrestricted rookie). Now were they expected to come in and be a franchise quarterbacks? No... but after being drafted, their teams quickly realized they had something special in each of them, and believed they could help the team in some fashion. There were talks of Romo being prep'd as a started for about a full year before he took over for Bledsoe, so it isn't like either of these three guys blindsided anyone with being successful. Maybe to the degree that they were successful, but its not like any of these guys were thought to be complete bums once their teams saw them.

O'Sullivan on the other hand has been on eight different teams in six years.... so I wouldn't say that the teams that he has played for hold him in as high regard as Romo, Brady, or Bulger when they were unproven.

In fact, about the only "journeymen" type quarterback I can think of in the NFL right now who is even comparible to O'Sullivan in terms of being totally unproven, and played for multiple teams, is Derek Anderson (who Toe pointed out), who only played for one previous team... the Ravens, and ya know, it's not like the Ravens have a clue about quarterbacks either.

Mmmmno, I'll give you Brady. Bulger was on multiple teams before lucking into the job due to injury, one he would never get otherwise. And it was Mike Martz that went and acquired him. Romo was just the guy who stuck around longest. They started fucking Chad Hutchinson and Drew Henson over him initially.

I mean lets look at some of the teams O'Sullivan has been on, and why he might not have broken through.

Saints- His first team, gets a pass on this one, alot of players don't instantly work out on their first team.

Packers- Wasn't ever going to pry the starting job away from Brett Favre

Bears- Alright this one I give you, but its not like they've shown any talent at picking QBs.

Vikings- They were still high on Daunte at the time, he wouldn't have beaten him out for the job.

Patriots- Brady.

Panthers- Pretty firmly entrenched with Jake Delhomme

Lions- Another team that has no idea what they're doing with QBs and loves Jon Kitna.

So, maybe he's been in about two realistic situations in his career where he could have won a job? Add in San Fran and you've got 3 and look, he's winning the job there.

The point is you can't judge someone as a starting QB if they've never been one. Sure it says something if they've never won a job, but as I said above, on alot of teams that opportunity doesn't present itself.

Daunte Culpepper however, HAS performed horrendously as a starting QB multiple times and is now struggling to get a backup job.

Todd Collins spent 10 years as a backup on a few teams, then he comes in after an injury and leads the 'Skins to the playoffs. He'll never win a starting job, but proved he's a perfectly capable QB. Same case with Damon Huard, granted he proved to be a bit of a flash in the pan, but he still won some games and put up good stats when he got the chance to start.

So before you go saying JT O'Sullivan is going to suck as a starting QB, let him suck as a starting QB. Like I said, I assume at some point I'll agree with you about him sucking, but I'm letting him have a chance to do it.

[alldaws1]

Daunte Culpepper however, HAS performed horrendously as a starting QB multiple times and is now struggling to get a backup job.

To be fair though, one of, if not the main reason Culpepper is still a free agent is because he wants a chance to compete for the starting job, he's not content with being a back-up. And if you believe the reports the Steelers and some other team I can't remember did actually try to sign him only for the deal to snag on that one thing.

[MyKILLv2.0]

Yeah, there have been reports that both Green Bay and the Steelers wanted him as their back up this year, but he wouldn't sign unless he had a chance to start. Same story as last year, which is why he ended up in Oakland, was because that was the only place where he could start.

[Cactus Drags]

Dude seriously needs to swallow his pride and realise he's just not any good anymore.

Incidentally, JT and Neckbeard looked pretty solid last night. Loving the Rashied Davies connection, AFL FTW.

[Lint]

Can't wait to see "Hammerin" Hank Baskett and DeSean "Action" Jackson tonight for my Eagles

Edited August 22, 2008 by Lint6

[alldaws1]

I've only got it on the NFL.com Game Center but the Cowboys are tearing up the Texans by the looks of it. Romo's (8/10-78, TD) been perfect on this drive and Barber's (7-56) just got it down to the 2 yard line on a 17-yard run. End 1st.

Edit: God dammit, I jinxed us. Romo intercepted in the endzone.

Edit II: J.T. O'Sullivan named 49ers starting QB for regular season opener. Whodathunkit?

Edited August 23, 2008 by AD

[mystikz]

houston really needs a running game

[Toe]

They need more then a running game. But at least that would be a start. Maybe an offensive line worth something would help that out?

[livid]

What now? They only let up 22 sacks last year...which is damn good.

They just need a RB who can run the damn ball and most of all, not get hurt (I'm looking at you Ahman Green and Chris Brown). Slaton can be that guy but it's not even the regular season in his rookie year. He'll get there eventually.