NFL 2008

[gunnar hendershow]

Well to play devil's advocate here, at least there's some controversy in the suspension of the Williams Brothers. It's not like it was an ironclad suspension and the judge decided to intervene.

But yeah, I'm sure there's more important things for judges to worry about.

Not in Minnesota. I mean, have you seen Fargo? The criminals practically turn themselves in up there, if they survive.

Edited December 4, 2008 by damshow

[Cactus Drags]

Well to play devil's advocate here, at least there's some controversy in the suspension of the Williams Brothers. It's not like it was an ironclad suspension and the judge decided to intervene.

But yeah, I'm sure there's more important things for judges to worry about.

Bullshit, the StarCaps stuff was red-flagged in 2006, that's absurd that a MINNESOTA judge gets to make the call. Fair enough, they and Jackson have a case against the company for not listing all its ingredients, but they were forewarned by the league, like every player was, two years ago.

[HailtotheYo]

That may not be true Dragsy

taken from PFT -

CORNWELL SAYS NFL FAILED TO WARN PLAYERS THAT STARCAPS CONTAINS BUMETANIDE

Posted by Mike Florio on November 19, 2008, 8:38 a.m. EST

A source with knowledge of the situation tells us that the appeal hearing arising from the four-game suspensions of Saints running back Deuce McAllister and defensive ends Charles Grant and Will Smith lasted until midnight on Tuesday. And, based on a statement released by lawyer David Cornwell, the marathon session apparently contained some fireworks.

The case comes down to the question of whether the Saints players will be suspended for taking StarCaps, a weight-loss supplement that was spiked with Bumetanide, a potent diuretic and a substance that the NFL has banned. StarCaps doesn’t disclose Bumetanide as an ingredient, and the company that distributes StarCaps has “temporarily” suspended shipments due to lawsuits filed by Saints guard Jamar Nesbit and Falcons defensive tackle Grady Jackson.

Cornwell contends that Dr. John Lombardo, the administrator of the NFL’s policy regarding anabolic steroids and related substances, testified during the hearing that he learned in late 2006 of the presence of Bumetanide in StarCaps. Lombardo, per Cornwell, did not share this information with NFL players, because Lombardo feared that other players testing positive for Bumetanide would claim that they were taking StarCaps, even if they weren’t.

Says Cornwell: “Dr. Lombardo’s failure to disclose what he knew about StarCaps may have exposed NFL players to the significant health risks associated with the unintentional ingestion of diuretics. If Dr. Lombardo had notified NFL players that StarCaps contained bumetanide, Will, Deuce and Charles would have never used the product to lose weight.”

Assuming that Cornwell’s characterization of the testimony is accurate, the Saints players apparently have turned the tables on Lombardo, making it very difficult for the league to suspend these players, or any other players who are facing suspensions for taking StarCaps, including Vikings defensive tackles Pat and Kevin Williams.

If any of that has truth to it, just wow and fuck you to the NFL.

[Vendetta]

2007 New England Patriots  at  1972 Miami Dolphins

The Orange Bowl 

Final - 12/4/2008 1st 2nd 3rd 4th Total 

2007 New England Patriots 0 14 3 0 17 

1972 Miami Dolphins 3 0 0 10 13 


Play by Play: [ 1st Quarter ] [ 2nd Quarter ] [ 3rd Quarter ] [ 4th Quarter ] 

Scoring Summary 

1st Quarter 

MIA 8:22 FG Garo Yepremian 43 yds.  0-3 

2nd Quarter 

NEW 14:08 TD Laurence Maroney 5 yd. run (Gostkowski kick) 7-3 

NEW 1:27 TD Ben Watson 3 yd. run (Gostkowski kick) 14-3 

3rd Quarter 

NEW 6:22 FG Stephen Gostkowski 20 yds.  17-3 

4th Quarter 

MIA 14:55 TD Larry Csonka 10 yd. run (Yepremian kick) 17-10 

MIA 7:17 FG Garo Yepremian 26 yds.  17-13 

   Team Statistics 

  2007 New England Patriots 1972 Miami Dolphins 

First Downs 20 16 

- Rushing 7 9 

- Passing 13 7 

- Penalty 0 0 

3rd Down Eff 4/11 6/16 

4th Down Eff 0/0 0/2 

Rushes-Yards 32-159 34-227 

Avg Rush 5.0 6.7 

Comp-Att-Int 17-27-2 13-29-1 

Passing Yards 206 144 

Sacks-Yards 0-0 1-7 

Fumbles-Lost 2-0 0-0 

Punts-Avg 6-41.2 5-39.0 

KR-Avg 4-22.0 4-22.3 

PR-Avg 4-4.0 6-10.0 

Penalties-Yard 1-5 1-10 

Time of Possession 29:42 30:18 



2007 New England Patriots Individual Stats   1972 Miami Dolphins Individual Stats 

Rushing 

  Att Yds 20+ L TD 

'07 Sammy Morris 10 85 2 44 0 

'07 Kevin Faulk 5 40 0 19 0 

'07 Laurence Maroney 14 32 0 11 1 

'07 Ben Watson 1 3 0 3 1 

'07 Tom Brady 2 -1 0 0 0 

   Rushing 

  Att Yds 20+ L TD 

'72 Mercury Morris 14 131 2 50 0 

'72 Larry Csonka 13 82 1 37 1 

'72 Jim Kiick 4 9 0 4 0 

'72 Earl Morrall 2 4 0 2 0 

'72 Paul Warfield 1 1 0 1 0 


Receiving 

  Rec Yds 20+ 40+ L TD 

'07 Randy Moss 5 80 0 0 19 0 

'07 Wes Welker 6 53 0 0 14 0 

'07 Donte' Stallworth 3 28 0 0 14 0 

'07 Laurence Maroney 1 18 0 0 18 0 

'07 Jabar Gaffney 1 14 0 0 14 0 

'07 Kevin Faulk 1 13 0 0 13 0 

   Receiving 

  Rec Yds 20+ 40+ L TD 

'72 Howard Twilley 3 50 1 0 23 0 

'72 Otto Stowe 2 33 1 0 22 0 

'72 Marv Fleming 3 28 0 0 19 0 

'72 Marlin Briscoe 2 24 0 0 17 0 

'72 Mercury Morris 2 9 0 0 8 0 

'72 Paul Warfield 1 7 0 0 7 0 


Passing 

  Comp. Att. Yards TD INT 

'07 Tom Brady 17 27 206 0 2 

   Passing 

  Comp. Att. Yards TD INT 

'72 Earl Morrall 8 19 95 0 1 

'72 Bob Griese 5 10 56 0 0 


Defensive 

  Tackles Sacks INT 

'07 Mike Vrabel 7 0 0 

'07 Tedy Bruschi 5 0 0 

'07 Randall Gay 5 0 1 

'07 Adalius Thomas 4 1 0 

'07 Asante Samuel 4 0 0 

'07 Rodney Harrison 3 0 0 

'07 Ellis Hobbs 3 0 0 

'07 James Sanders 2 0 0 

'07 Junior Seau 2 0 0 

'07 Rosevelt Colvin 2 0 0 

'07 Vince Wilfork 2 0 0 

'07 Ty Warren 1 0 0 

'07 Richard Seymour 1 0 0 

   Defensive 

  Tackles Sacks INT 

'72 Jesse Powell 4 0 0 

'72 Maulty Moore 4 0 0 

'72 Bob Heinz 4 0 0 

'72 Vern Den herder 4 0 0 

'72 Nick Buoniconti 4 0 1 

'72 Doug Swift 3 0 0 

'72 Lloyd Mumphord 3 0 0 

'72 Jim Dunaway 3 0 0 

'72 Bill Stanfill 2 0 0 

'72 Jake Scott 2 0 0 

'72 Bob Matheson 2 0 0 

'72 Dick Anderson 2 0 0 

'72 Curtis Johnson 1 0 1 

'72 Tim Foley 1 0 0 

'72 Manny Fernandez 1 0 0 

'72 Larry Ball 1 0 0 


Field Goals 

  Made Missed 

'07 Stephen Gostkowski 20 - 

   Field Goals 

  Made Missed 

'72 Garo Yepremian 43,26 47 




Player of the Game:

'72 Mercury Morris (1972 Miami Dolphins)

Thanks What If. Would have been an awesome fucking game. Oh and word has it that many writers are saying that the only two teams built to take on NYG are Tampa and Pittsburgh.

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing NYG vs. Tampa in the NFC Championship Game.

Another little note of interest only Tampa, NYG and Carolina are undefeated at home. Tampa is only allowing 12.6 points at home. Tampa Bay is facing Carolina Monday Night after embarassing them 27 to 3 in Tampa earlier this year.

[TheArsenal]

Me and a friend were discussing this today. I'm a Giants fan, he's a Pats fan. He still hears about last years SuperBowl.

Anyway, he thought there probably wasn't an NFC team that could stop the Giants getting to the SuperBowl - and thought maybe the Steelers were the best chance the AFC had of winning the SuperBowl. Although he wants to see either Giants/Colts for the Manning vs Manning SB game, or Giants/Jets for the New York vs New York game.

[Pepsi]

Giants/Jets would be the first Superbowl I wouldn't care to watch.

[MyKILLv2.0]

Clearly the Jets HAVE to make the Superbowl. Maybe then that Farve fella will get the media attention he deserves.

[Vendetta]

I'm begging you Tampa Bay..draft this man...

[Maxx]

Seriously, fuck the NFLPA. They're filing a grievence for Plaxico, saying the Giants treated him unfairly and violated the collective bargaining agreement. This is fucking ridiculous, he's being investigated for a fucking felony, he violated THE LAW, but nope, the NFLPA doesn't think thats enough to warrant such terrible and inexcusable actions like a fucking suspension. If you're looking for a reason why NFL players seem to think they can get away with anythings, its cause the fucking NFLPA will go to bat to them no matter what the fuck they do.

[naiwf]

I don't know which person/group is most irritating between the referees, the NFLPA, Vikings fans judges in Minnesota, the people who hand out the fines over BS hits/complaints about the inept and/or corrupt officials and Herr Goodell. None of those groups ever admit to making mistakes and just end up coming across like douchebags. They should be thankful that Americans love them some gamblin', or the 1001 legal issues the NFL has sustained in the last year would have crippled this league.

[livid]

Really, a lot of times, the grievances are more of a formality in that they don't want to lose the players' faith that they would stand up for them, one of the very reasons why they exist.

I'm not saying that it's true in Plaxico's case, but I'd wouldn't be surprised that they're just filing it to file it so that they don't get any blowback from players.

And as far as the Williamses go, it's weird that a judge did but really, you think they have better things to do? It's the in thing to do for politicians. Just ask Obama or George Mitchell.

And lowerdeck, you do know that Fargo's in North Dakota right, not Minnesota?

[Vendetta]

From what I heard the NFL doesn't like players taking Supplements period.

[Lowerdeck]

And lowerdeck, you do know that Fargo's in North Dakota right, not Minnesota?

I said what now?

[naiwf]

That's true, but it's pretty hard to maintain 250-350 pounds with minimal body fat, while maintaining maximum speed, power, endurance and flexibility. I would go so far as to say that aside from perhaps kickers and punters there isn't anyone in the NFL not taking some kind of supplement to maintain their size and/or recover from injuries.

[Cactus Drags]

That may not be true Dragsy

taken from PFT -

CORNWELL SAYS NFL FAILED TO WARN PLAYERS THAT STARCAPS CONTAINS BUMETANIDE

Posted by Mike Florio on November 19, 2008, 8:38 a.m. EST

A source with knowledge of the situation tells us that the appeal hearing arising from the four-game suspensions of Saints running back Deuce McAllister and defensive ends Charles Grant and Will Smith lasted until midnight on Tuesday. And, based on a statement released by lawyer David Cornwell, the marathon session apparently contained some fireworks.

The case comes down to the question of whether the Saints players will be suspended for taking StarCaps, a weight-loss supplement that was spiked with Bumetanide, a potent diuretic and a substance that the NFL has banned. StarCaps doesn’t disclose Bumetanide as an ingredient, and the company that distributes StarCaps has “temporarily” suspended shipments due to lawsuits filed by Saints guard Jamar Nesbit and Falcons defensive tackle Grady Jackson.

Cornwell contends that Dr. John Lombardo, the administrator of the NFL’s policy regarding anabolic steroids and related substances, testified during the hearing that he learned in late 2006 of the presence of Bumetanide in StarCaps. Lombardo, per Cornwell, did not share this information with NFL players, because Lombardo feared that other players testing positive for Bumetanide would claim that they were taking StarCaps, even if they weren’t.

Says Cornwell: “Dr. Lombardo’s failure to disclose what he knew about StarCaps may have exposed NFL players to the significant health risks associated with the unintentional ingestion of diuretics. If Dr. Lombardo had notified NFL players that StarCaps contained bumetanide, Will, Deuce and Charles would have never used the product to lose weight.”

Assuming that Cornwell’s characterization of the testimony is accurate, the Saints players apparently have turned the tables on Lombardo, making it very difficult for the league to suspend these players, or any other players who are facing suspensions for taking StarCaps, including Vikings defensive tackles Pat and Kevin Williams.

If any of that has truth to it, just wow and fuck you to the NFL.

That's pretty shitty work by the NFL if true, but it has no relevance to what I said. What I read this week was that the NFL had sent memos around in2006 warning players not to use StarCaps in general, with no specific mention of any ingredient, listed or otherwise. If that's correct, then the Williamses have no leg to stand on and should be suspended.

[livid]

And lowerdeck, you do know that Fargo's in North Dakota right, not Minnesota?

I said what now?

I meant damshow, sorry.

Still, damshow, the comment still applies.

[HailtotheYo]

That may not be true Dragsy

taken from PFT -

CORNWELL SAYS NFL FAILED TO WARN PLAYERS THAT STARCAPS CONTAINS BUMETANIDE

Posted by Mike Florio on November 19, 2008, 8:38 a.m. EST

A source with knowledge of the situation tells us that the appeal hearing arising from the four-game suspensions of Saints running back Deuce McAllister and defensive ends Charles Grant and Will Smith lasted until midnight on Tuesday. And, based on a statement released by lawyer David Cornwell, the marathon session apparently contained some fireworks.

The case comes down to the question of whether the Saints players will be suspended for taking StarCaps, a weight-loss supplement that was spiked with Bumetanide, a potent diuretic and a substance that the NFL has banned. StarCaps doesn’t disclose Bumetanide as an ingredient, and the company that distributes StarCaps has “temporarily” suspended shipments due to lawsuits filed by Saints guard Jamar Nesbit and Falcons defensive tackle Grady Jackson.

Cornwell contends that Dr. John Lombardo, the administrator of the NFL’s policy regarding anabolic steroids and related substances, testified during the hearing that he learned in late 2006 of the presence of Bumetanide in StarCaps. Lombardo, per Cornwell, did not share this information with NFL players, because Lombardo feared that other players testing positive for Bumetanide would claim that they were taking StarCaps, even if they weren’t.

Says Cornwell: “Dr. Lombardo’s failure to disclose what he knew about StarCaps may have exposed NFL players to the significant health risks associated with the unintentional ingestion of diuretics. If Dr. Lombardo had notified NFL players that StarCaps contained bumetanide, Will, Deuce and Charles would have never used the product to lose weight.”

Assuming that Cornwell’s characterization of the testimony is accurate, the Saints players apparently have turned the tables on Lombardo, making it very difficult for the league to suspend these players, or any other players who are facing suspensions for taking StarCaps, including Vikings defensive tackles Pat and Kevin Williams.

If any of that has truth to it, just wow and fuck you to the NFL.

That's pretty shitty work by the NFL if true, but it has no relevance to what I said. What I read this week was that the NFL had sent memos around in2006 warning players not to use StarCaps in general, with no specific mention of any ingredient, listed or otherwise. If that's correct, then the Williamses have no leg to stand on and should be suspended.

I get what you're saying, but if a general warning was went out then wouldn't there have been an immediate rebuke to Cornwell's statement ?

If Lombardo issued a warning at all, then the point of him not wanting others to claim to be taking StarCaps wouldn't make sense. I'm drawing from this that NOTHING was said at all in reference to StarCaps because if there had been, then Cornwell would've been immediately (or by now) shot down with his claim but that isn't the case.

[gunnar hendershow]

And lowerdeck, you do know that Fargo's in North Dakota right, not Minnesota?

I said what now?

I meant damshow, sorry.

Still, damshow, the comment still applies.

It was a movie reference. It was meant in humor.

[alldaws1]

Marion Barber won't face the Steelers this week. I think that's killed off any chance we had. This isn't the game to be forced into a one dimensional team against the league's best pass defense.

[GhostMachine]

I'm wondering something:

1. If the league did in fact warn players not to use StarCaps, then how does the judge have any standing to make his ruling? I could understand it if the ingredient not being listed on the label was just the problem, but if they used the product after having been warned a long time ago not to, then the judge shouldn't have any leg to stand on and the league should win an appeal or get him to overturn his decision fairly easily.

2. Couldn't the NFL basically say `okay, Minnesota players, you're not suspended.....when you play at home; you'll be serving your suspensions on the road!'? He's a Minnesota, not Federal judge, so he probably couldn't do anything about that. (Judge: "I ordered you not to suspend those players!" NFL lawyer: "Yes, but your authority ends at the state border, so blow me, your honor!")

Marion Barber won't face the Steelers this week. I think that's killed off any chance we had. This isn't the game to be forced into a one dimensional team against the league's best pass defense.

Oh, it definitely hurts their chances, but I wouldn't write their chances off just yet. And I believe that Big Ben is one of the most overrated QBs in the NFL, anyway.