Doctor Who

[Colly]

Spoiler

Tennant and Eccles Cake.

 

[GhostMachine]

Latest episode:

If Chibnall is going to keep doing episodes about environmental issues, can we please have a new showrunner ASAP? That is all.

 

[Vamp]

Spoiler

You would have hated the Pertwee era.

 

[GhostMachine]

3 hours ago, Vamp said:

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You would have hated the Pertwee era.

 

Nope. Loved it, actually. Pertwee is my second favorite `classic era' Doctor. I just don't like having more environmental stuff being thrown at us right now. We've had one about climate change, and now one on littering/overuse of plastics. Though I did read a National Geographic article on plastics in the ocean last year that was disheartening.

[Benji]

Spoiler

 

Ian Gelder absolutely killed it as Zellin. What a wonderful villain.

 

 

[DFF]

Enjoyed tonight's episode. Hopefully they will work out a way to use the antagonists again down the line. 

[Colly]

On 09/02/2020 at 20:39, Benji said:

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Ian Gelder absolutely killed it as Zellin. What a wonderful villain.

 

 

Spoiler

Was his chin real? He looked like real Thanos...

 

[Benji]

Yup, you may also remember him as Kevan Lannister in Game of Thrones.

[Adam]

I thought the episode this past week was the best in the series so far.

Spoiler

I liked the air of it all before the Lone Cyberman showed up, and I do love it anyway when Doctor Who plonks us in the middle of interesting famous people from history and does it well. They did it well here for sure, none of the links to the Shelleys or Byron felt ham-fisted, in fact there was only really one allusion to Mary Shelley writing Frankenstein and it wasn't hammered home.

I am generally horrified by the Cybermen, the concept of what they are just creeps me out beyond belief, so I usually dread them showing up. But this was a fresh, innovative take on them and they built the mystery of what it wanted nicely. Sets up what's to come in a good way.

There were no exaggerated moral lessons beating us over the head either, probably for the first time in Series 12. I'm all for weaving social commentary into the show but instead of weaving it in, Chibnall has usually crammed it in st the expense of narrative quality. None of that this time, the writing allowed the story to stand high and develop properly.

So yes, The Haunting of Villa Diodati gets a big thumbs up from me.

[GhostMachine]

Has the actor playing the Lone Cyberman done anything of note? He's done a stellar job so far.

[DFF]

4 hours ago, GhostMachine said:

Has the actor playing the Lone Cyberman done anything of note? He's done a stellar job so far.

He was the new face of Jaqen H'ghar in Game of Thrones (season 2). 

[Adam]

What did we think of Ascension of the Cybermen?

Spoiler

It was a very tense experience, lots of build-up with obviously most of the pay-off coming next week. I enjoyed it, thought it was well put together but it didn't quite have as much jeopardy as I was expecting. I grant you, the way the episode ends sets up a boatload of jeopardy for next week and I'm very scared for our companions in particular, but I felt there was maybe a little bit missing there. Saying that, if it all fits together as a two-parter by the end of Sunday, then I'll have no complaints.

As I said last week, the Cybermen scare me enough as it is but Ashad is a wonderfully realised character and adds more intrigue and nuance to the Cybermen than I think I've ever really appreciated. The new model ones look pretty cool too, not clunky or goofy in any way at all.

The growing questions over all these spinning plates successfully made me forget for a time that we were fully expecting The Master back in this episode too, so bravo for that. His reveal jumping through The Boundary was terrific and Sacha Dhawan is fast becoming one of my favourite parts of the show. His performance is wonderful. The Time Lords/Gallifrey business is what I'm really here for and there's so many possibilities at this stage.

Oh, and what about Brendan? That was a bit odd. I've read so many theories about him since it aired, but I don't think he's the Lone Cybermen or really related to that side of the story. The Timeless Child/ren, Gallifrey, I think he's tied into that. The device they used on him at the end certainly resembled the Chameleon Arch but hey ho, maybe that was an intentional misdirect.

I'm praying that none of the companions get converted, but I fear for Yaz out of all of them. And it would really suck if she were the one to go as she's the most interesting of the trio to me and I think would work the best as a solo companion to Thirteen if they were to go that route. And I'm confident Captain Jack is going to reappear in the finale, probably to try and rescue Graham/Yaz/Ravio/Other Humans from that ship. No idea where Ruth Doctor fits in though,.

 

[GhostMachine]

@Adam

Its been confirmed by multiple sources that Captain Jack won't be in the finale. 

I think Ashad's downfall is that he's a reject. He's somehow controlling the Cybermen through the Cyberium, and if that somehow gets tampered with or shut down, the other Cybernen will kill him.

.Totally disagree about Yaz. I find her to be the least interesting of the three companions. Outside of the episodes Demons of the Punjab and Can You Hear Me?, I have not cared about her at all. Blame going solely to the writers for that. Graham is the most interesting and most likeable of the three. 

Completely agree about Brendan, though. I believe he most likely is a Time Lord.

 

[DFF]

Generally enjoyed the first part of the finale, even if it did look like they just wandered down to a scrap yard to film it haha (sort of classic who-ish that). I think they did a good job building the tension and set-up the twist / surprise. Hopefully we'll get more actual answer in part 2. Interested to see where the Brendan subplot fits in. 

[DFF]

Enjoyed part 2 of the finale!  I think we got *just* enough answers to keep us going, haha.

 

Also looking forward to the moaning from bedroom dwelling edgelords who don't like where it went haha

[Adam]

25 minutes ago, DFF said:

Enjoyed part 2 of the finale!  I think we got *just* enough answers to keep us going, haha.

 

Also looking forward to the moaning from bedroom dwelling edgelords who don't like where it went haha

I share your sentiment on both of those points! This is the sort of show that will always, always have a clutch of its fanbase actively hating everything about it. Silly but not surprising. I know it has been said before, but the way some people cling to bits of "canon" on a 50+ year old show about a time-travelling, face-changing space alien really is bizarre. The freedom that this character and setting gives a writer to play around with is amazing and a constant benefit yet some would much rather stick The Doctor and the Whoniverse in as many clearly defined boxes as possible.

I enjoyed the finale anyway. Thoughts:

Spoiler

Whilst I was expecting a little bit more action and perhaps a few more answers than we got, we still did get plenty and I actually love how they are potentially writing a whole load of new history into the character of The Doctor. Where is she really from? This left us with some great questions, and I can't wait to see how the Ruth Doctor may factor in again in the future. We better be getting Captain Jack in Series 13 as well!

The Cybermen weren't much of a force in this episode, which is a bit of a shame (especially as Ashad was the most interesting Cyberman I've ever seen) but at the same time I did not want to see any of the Fam getting killed or converted by them so I'm glad they didn't go down that route at all.

The Master was utterly brilliant throughout. I loved his history lesson to Thirteen, I loved his general megolomaniac demeanour and the scenes where he basically expressed his suicidal mania were just brilliant. I love, love, love the Tissue Compressor as well, great to see it being used even if it was used on another villain.

The Fam, not enough scenes with Thirteen for me but I adored the touching scene between Graham and Yaz. I can't understate how satisfying the Yorkshire elements in this era of the show are to me, as someone from the neck of the woods that the Earth of the show is currently set. I hope they all make it out of the Christmas Special alive too, I'm well up for another season of this group and I feel there is much more to explore with the Ryan and Yaz characters in particular. Individually I mean, not as a potential couple (#Thasmin!).

Delighted we are getting a festive special, would be nice to have it on Christmas Day rather than New Year's Day, but I must say I am not in any need of another Dalek story already. They bore me these days to be honest and now we've seen Thirteen battle them, I'm not really feeling a need to see it again. I just rewatched Daleks in Manhattan from Ten's era and it was a really, really good two-parter but it just reminded me of all the reasons the Daleks quickly get dull for me.

 

[GhostMachine]

Can't watch it until it airs later tonight, but....do they even halfway answer what the deal is with Ruth?

[Vamp]

Spoiler

While they were revealing the Timeless Child I became more and more convinced that there would be another twist and that actually it would make far more sense if the Master was the Timeless Child. The regeneration limit has never bothered him (while the Doctor was supposedly granted another cycle), I would argue he fits even less into Time Lord society than the Doctor, he went mad at the Untempered Schism (perhaps because he saw his own universe/dimension through it) and it would explain his madness and anger. Plus it would have been amazing to see the Doctor suddenly realise that what was hidden was the revelation that it wasn't her but the Master who was the child. Plus it would add an extra wrinkle to their relationship if the Master's blood was the reason that the Doctor regenerated. 

I'm in two minds about the actual revelation. I like anything that adds more mystery to the Doctor but also dislike anything that makes The Doctor the most important of the Time Lords. 

Plus while I don't really want episodes set on Gallifrey the arc for the planet is now "Gallifrey was destroyed, Gallifrey wasn't destroyed, Gallifrey is stuck in a moment of time, Gallifrey got unstuck I guess, Gallifrey is destroyed." 

The Doctor letting the old codger sacrifice himself at the end felt really weird. It felt really out of character for me. 

Other than big picture things, I loved the Master in this episode, Jodie was brilliant and they really got me believing they were going to kill her off, loved seeing working TARDIS chameleon circuits, glad they didn't kill of the fam, liked the new Cybermen designs (both of them) and loved the Master ridiculing their plan of becoming robots.

Good series but a muddled ending for me.

 

[GhostMachine]

You know what really sucks? I like Ruth's TARDIS control room and the one seen in this episode better than any of the Doctors' in NuWho, other than War and Twelve's.

Thoughts on the episode:

Did not like the Doctor's origin making him/her the reason for Time Lords having the ability to regenerate in the first place, and the Doctor not actually being Gallifreyan. Or the faces from Brain of Morbius being shown when Thirteen was remembering past lives. It had already been explained (though not on the show) that those were supposed to be either false images Four was transmitting, or Morbius' past incarnations. 

I kind of hope Gallifrey stays destroyed this time, and there aren't any other Time Lords out there. Problem is, Rassilon might be since he was exiled. The only downside to Gallifrey being destroyed is that means Romana and Leela are dead.

The Judoon.....ugh. If there's any alien race from NuWho I'd like to either never see again, or see get wiped out, its them. They're bullies and morons, not really cops.

 

[Adam]

@GhostMachine:

Spoiler

"It had already been explained (though not on the show) that those were supposed to be either false images Four was transmitting, or Morbius' past incarnations."

I don't believe that's true. It had been speculated by a great many people what those faces meant, but indeed never explained canonically in the show, and the original producers of The Brain of Morbius said that the implication was intended to be that they were pre-Hartnell Doctors. In the dialogue, Morbius even exclaims "back to your beginning!" to Four as the faces pop up.

I personally like that they have, for now at least, made The Doctor the Timeless Child and therefore more unique/special than the Time Lords, though I totally understand people who don't like that. For me, The Doctor should be special, not just one of a load of similar beings who all do the same sort of thing we see The Doctor doing. Otherwise, why should we be following the adventures of this particular Time Lord? If that makes sense.

It also creates intrigue for future material surrounding The Doctor's true origins, and the Ruth Doctor stuff is all still up in the air really as well.