A trading love-in

[PkmnTrainerJ]

Just got back from sending it. You were lucky Hammy, as this is the last Christmas posting date for Japan.

[Cactus Drags]

Don't get Mirror's Edge, i've heard from numerous people (seperate from ZP) that it isn't very good.

Have you played it? If you're just going off reviews, I wouldn't offer an opinion, since every negative review I've read basically comes across as the reviewer running away from his TV screaming "ARRRRRRRRRRRRGHHHHH! SOMETHING DIFFERENT! CAN'T COPE!" or turning away in disgust at the lack of guns. Or, they're so used to murky brown terrain in their games that the bright reds, blues and whites of ME simply burned out their retinas and they wrote poor reviews out of spite.

Either way, a lot of the reviews I've seen have been utter bullshit and you should at the very least try the demo. There are some legit grievances such as the shortness of the story (although this has worked in my favour since there's so many bloody games out at the moment, it's taking me ages to finish anyway).

[ChrisSteeleAteMyHamster]

Just got back from sending it. You were lucky Hammy, as this is the last Christmas posting date for Japan.

YUS! *boogies*

[Plubby]

Dragsy: Have I played the demo? THE VERY THING that is universal about what I heard is that the demo is great and the game not up to that snuff.

Here are some quotes from the review I read.

Mirror's Edge is like an internet date. From a quick view it looks like something you really like, but what you see and expect aren't necessarily going to be what you get.

Mirror's Edge was a title that up until the demo looked to me like an interesting title worth watching out for. It was the demo that took it from a nice idea to an exceptional title. It works. All the stuff that looked like it may or may not work really worked, and worked well, creating an enjoyable and almost sublime feeling of smooth flowing running. Everyone was excited and eager for what could be the next truly great and innovative title.

But then cracks began to appear.

Mirror's Edge has been panned by many. People on our forums saying that after the awesome demo the rest of the game allegedly unpolished and buggy, the gameplay degenerates into trial and error. The feelings have been strong enough to unite nemeses on a thread imaginatively titled "Mirror's Edge sucks".

Hamster: You trust Dragsy? Did you read that post? "Oh these people have a different opinion to me so i'm going to represent them as closed-minded just so I can seem like the only person with a well thought-out opinion". (And you are going to say "No I didn't". Stop. Right now. Yes you did.) Puh-lease, everyone knows reviews are subjective. Everyone has an opinion, mine happened to be "I reccommend not getting it". Dragsy's is HURR HURR EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME IS WRONG! If that's who you want to trust, then, that's up to you. I wasn't giving an order, just making a suggestion.

[Kaney]

Yeah, but the difference is Dragsy has played the full game, so his opinion would be more useful than the one you read from someone else. I've played it, it's a perfectly fine game. It's short, and the parts where you are surrounded by guards are frustrating, but I've come across no bugs, and the trial and error thing is bullshit. The entire game is basically, get from A to B without being killed. Of course there are some specific set points, but the basis is you are supposed to try out new stuff to find the best flow. Either I've been incredibly lucky to avoid the annoying parts in my playthrough, or people are just being nitpicky.

[AJ]

Can I just ask, where is the demo? 'cause last I looked it wasn't on the Playstation Store.

[Cactus Drags]

Dragsy: Have I played the demo? THE VERY THING that is universal about what I heard is that the demo is great and the game not up to that snuff.

Here are some quotes from the review I read.

Mirror's Edge is like an internet date. From a quick view it looks like something you really like, but what you see and expect aren't necessarily going to be what you get.

Mirror's Edge was a title that up until the demo looked to me like an interesting title worth watching out for. It was the demo that took it from a nice idea to an exceptional title. It works. All the stuff that looked like it may or may not work really worked, and worked well, creating an enjoyable and almost sublime feeling of smooth flowing running. Everyone was excited and eager for what could be the next truly great and innovative title.

But then cracks began to appear.

Mirror's Edge has been panned by many. People on our forums saying that after the awesome demo the rest of the game allegedly unpolished and buggy, the gameplay degenerates into trial and error. The feelings have been strong enough to unite nemeses on a thread imaginatively titled "Mirror's Edge sucks".

Hamster: You trust Dragsy? Did you read that post? "Oh these people have a different opinion to me so i'm going to represent them as closed-minded just so I can seem like the only person with a well thought-out opinion". (And you are going to say "No I didn't". Stop. Right now. Yes you did.) Puh-lease, everyone knows reviews are subjective. Everyone has an opinion, mine happened to be "I reccommend not getting it". Dragsy's is HURR HURR EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME IS WRONG! If that's who you want to trust, then, that's up to you. I wasn't giving an order, just making a suggestion.

Crucially, unlike a reviewer, I've spent a fair bit of time with it, I've even admitted it has its shortcomings, stop making me out to be a prick because I actually have a clue what I'm talking about and you apparently don't.

Edited December 6, 2008 by Dragsy

[thuganomic]

dude, he plays and loves a photography game. i think mirror's edge is the perfect game for him

Hey! Pokemon Snap was great.

[ChrisSteeleAteMyHamster]

Yeah plubby I'm disappointed in you. Of course I've read the reviews, I've been interested in the game for ages. I know the positives and negatives, I've played the demo and listened to stuff about later levels.

Crucially when I talk about trusting Dragsy it's about his opinions on other games also PLUS the fact that he works at Gamestation and I know from experience working there that you get the chance to see through the hype, borrow games, try games out, buy games cheaply and speak to a LOT of people who play, love and hate each game.

[Cactus Drags]

Usually, if we get umpteen copies of a game traded in within two weeks of release, it's not going to be amazing (Star Wars Force Unleashed, Mercenaries 2 etc.) - at the very least, there's no longevity to it. Since Mirror's Edge came out, I think I've seen no more than 5 or 6 copies. Now I know that's not an exact measure of quality, but it's usually a good sign that people are enjoying the game and getting their money's worth. Which, ironically enough, they won't be if they trade it in

[Plubby]

...wow. Just, wow. Thanks for the (mock or otherwise) condescending there, Hamster.

Dragsy, you were being a prick about it. You have given three reasons why "Reviewers opinions are less valid because..."

These being:

- Reviewers can't handle new ideas

- Reviewers don't like games without guns

- Reviewers don't play the games for very long

Using the "Your opinion is wrong" is being a prick about it. Maybe it's being jaded and cynical about reviews in the best case. How else was I meant to make you look? And on that third reason, how many hours are there in a "very long", anyway?

Make no mistake about it, I am not going to pretend to have played this game. All I did was bring another opinion to this thread (along with a personal reccommendation that you do not get Mirror's Edge, because I trust the opinion I read, much in the same way Hamster trusts Dragsy's opinion) and apparently the other opinion was less valid than Dragsy's. This is the only thing I am taking issue with here.

You are entitled to trust the opinion of someone you know, that's human nature. As I said previously, I wasn't demanding you accept the opinion I offered, I was just offering it. None of this makes anyone's opinion less valid, and I don't understand why I should have come under attack for that, especially for such idiotic reasons like "Dragsy played the full game, so his opinion is more useful than the one you read". (Apparently the reviewers don't play the full games. Just think about that one for a second. That's ridiculous!)

As I said before, reviewing a game, or just giving an opinion of a game is a subjective process. If the review I'm repeating and quoting doesn't mesh well with your own, it shouldn't bother anyone to the point that they have to try and say that the opinion is wrong, and make unfounded assumptions to discredit the person offering the other opinion.

[Kaney]

especially for such idiotic reasons like "Dragsy played the full game, so his opinion is more useful than the one you read".

I was referring to you though. The part about it being one you read, albeit horrible worded, was me being condescending.

[Plubby]

In that case I withdraw that part, and refer that sentence to the "I never claimed to have played the game" bit.

[Cactus Drags]

...wow. Just, wow. Thanks for the (mock or otherwise) condescending there, Hamster.

Dragsy, you were being a prick about it. You have given three reasons why "Reviewers opinions are less valid because..."

These being:

- Reviewers can't handle new ideas

- Reviewers don't like games without guns

- Reviewers don't play the games for very long

Using the "Your opinion is wrong" is being a prick about it. Maybe it's being jaded and cynical about reviews in the best case. How else was I meant to make you look? And on that third reason, how many hours are there in a "very long", anyway?

Make no mistake about it, I am not going to pretend to have played this game. All I did was bring another opinion to this thread (along with a personal reccommendation that you do not get Mirror's Edge, because I trust the opinion I read, much in the same way Hamster trusts Dragsy's opinion) and apparently the other opinion was less valid than Dragsy's. This is the only thing I am taking issue with here.

You are entitled to trust the opinion of someone you know, that's human nature. As I said previously, I wasn't demanding you accept the opinion I offered, I was just offering it. None of this makes anyone's opinion less valid, and I don't understand why I should have come under attack for that, especially for such idiotic reasons like "Dragsy played the full game, so his opinion is more useful than the one you read". (Apparently the reviewers don't play the full games. Just think about that one for a second. That's ridiculous!)

As I said before, reviewing a game, or just giving an opinion of a game is a subjective process. If the review I'm repeating and quoting doesn't mesh well with your own, it shouldn't bother anyone to the point that they have to try and say that the opinion is wrong, and make unfounded assumptions to discredit the person offering the other opinion.

I can't be arsed with pointless squabble and point-by-point breakdowns, we'll end up with the bloody hockey thread at this rate.

Just one correction though, I never meant to imply that reviews don't play the full game, if that's how it came across, I apologise. What I mean is that reviews don't spend a great deal of time with the games they review, obviously they can't help that, but it means they don't always get the full picture. It's the same reason they give glowing reviews to EA's franchise modes, then thousands of gamers get pissed off when they've read these reviews then turn up about 800 different issues within a year or so of their franchise. Also, I'm playing for the fun of the game, not to turn up bugs or issues that'll make a good story, or give me something to write about, so I guess I can see past issues more easily.

And yeah, to be honest I am cynical when it comes to reviews because for one they never seem to hold EA to account, a great deal of them can't actually handle new ideas and call things stupid, or even question why a developer would go a new route with something rather than stick with the tried and true. And they definitely don't play games for very long.

I'm sure you'll come up with two or three really specific examples of reviewers who spend entire weeks with games before putting their scores out, or who go out of their way to review unique games, but in the end you'll jsut be proving my point for me, because there's hundreds of reviews that go against that, and I really can't be arsed trawling through them all.

The ridiculous thing is that I just had to go back and check what caused this rift in the first place, because I'm certain I didn't make a personal attack on you (just checked, I didn't). You apparently seem to have taken offence at the fact that Hammy didn't agree with you, and he did with me. Fair enough...I guess, but don't drag it out off-topic, and don't call me a prick.

[ChrisSteeleAteMyHamster]

Usually, if we get umpteen copies of a game traded in within two weeks of release, it's not going to be amazing (Star Wars Force Unleashed, Mercenaries 2 etc.) - at the very least, there's no longevity to it. Since Mirror's Edge came out, I think I've seen no more than 5 or 6 copies. Now I know that's not an exact measure of quality, but it's usually a good sign that people are enjoying the game and getting their money's worth. Which, ironically enough, they won't be if they trade it in

As well as Gamestation being generally tight when it comes to trade in prices these days, I'd imagine low trade-in prices may have been down to them thinking that it would end up in a similar situation to Assassin's Creed or Halo which both ended up with hundreds of copies being traded back in at thirty quid a time and the company is still shifting those preowned games at 12.99 a time or something. Gamestation HATE not making money.

[Cactus Drags]

To be fair though, they're usually better than GAME. And it's Army of Two we need to get rid of at the moment, we've got loads. Although head office is concerned we won't have enough stock to put on the shelves over Christmas, so 2 for £20 DS has gone, 4 for £20 360 has gone and there's no X for £X offers at all on PS3.

[King Ellis]

Stock as in, what, pre-owned? That's crazy. You'd figure with all this 'OMG CREDIT CRUNCH' talk, people would be trading in games even more to either put towards new releases or just eat.

Or do you mean new releases? Do you get deliveries from Woolworths as well?

[RoyWill Rumble]

You know when new ideas don't work? Sonic Unleashed.

* Walks out of thread. *

[Ruki]

You actually thought it would be good?

[Asuka's Gonna Kill You]

Played the demo, amazing. Started playing the game the other day, still amazing. That's coming from a person who detests first person mode as well. This somehow doesn't matter with this game, because it's so different and so out there, it's just one of those 'beautiful' games.

And for the record, I cant stand it when people judge a game on a fucking review