Formula One 2009

[Dan]

I hope they all fuck off.

The sooner the cars are even, the better.

[Katsuya]

Then I suggest you go watch A1GP.

F1 has always been a case of teams being on different levels. It was never a sustainable sport, and it should never be one - it's meant to be the pinnacle of racing, where only the serious boys come to play.

[Adam]

Yeah, I'd hate to see Ferrari leave the sport, they really are synonimous with Formula 1 and have been in the championship since pretty much it's inception. Ascari was world champion for them in the early 50's, but none of the other teams from that era are around as full works teams today. This budget cap idea, which I thought was decent, will end up being rethought, as we have half the grid complaining about it and FOTA got what they wanted on the points system issue earlier this season, at least for now.

[TheArsenal]

I hope they all fuck off.

The sooner the cars are even, the better.

Ermm... Ferrari are arguing that the budget cap will mean the cars AREN'T even. The budget cap isn't mandatory, and some teams feel 40million is just too low. Eddie Jordan was talking at the weekend and said one of the teams (I can't remember which, I think it was BMW or Williams or someone like that) had a budget of 200million last year. Coming down from 200million to 40 million is one year is a ridiculous ask. That's why some of the teams feel like it's just going to end up as a two tier championship - those who want to work under the budget cap (currently two teams) and those that don't (everyone else - bar one that is sitting on the fence).

Ferrari are stating that at least at the minute all the cars are subject to the same regulations as each other, it's just up to designers to do the best within those limitations. That's exactly what's happened this year with the split-level diffusers and people are saying it's one of the best seasons in years. The optional budget cap (with penalties for those who don't use it and rewards for those that do) will create anything BUT even cars.

Virtually every team acknowledges the need for the costs in F1 to be reduced. Many of the teams have said a budget cap would be a good idea - but 40million is just too low a budget considering the price of the technology.

The only reason Bernie Ecclestone and Max Mosley are proposing this is to get more cars on the grid. And with Super Aguri dropping out last season and the Honda/Brawn team only just making it back for this season, I guess they fear for the numbers involved. Plus more drivers isn't going to hurt the competition on raceday. The only problem, especially with Ecclestone, is the ridiculous way that he uses F1 to line his own wallet. One of the biggest reasons that the sport is unsustainable is because Ecclestone and the FIA bleed the money out of the sport at every opportunity. The teams, and certainly the tracks, get virtually nothing from F1, while drivers are paying way over the odds for the super-licences they need to race. The cost this year was just under £10,000 for the licence - then the drivers are charged (just under) a further £2,000 for every point they won last season - so they are effectively punished financially for their success by having to pay more. After winning the championship last year, Hamilton had to pay £242,000 just to compete in the sport! Where else are teams or players made to pay to be a part of the sport, with the cost dependant on how well they performed the previous year?

If Ecclestone wants costs down, how about subsidising from his own over-inflated wallet?

And as for having identical cars for every driver, what would then be the point in having a constructors championship? Because there would be no need for any constructors on any team. And in fact, with identical cars, there would be no need for teams in the first place! Drivers may as well just get supplied a car by F1 and have the race run like motorised horse racing. Most people I know are fans of a team, rather than a specific driver. Me? I like Button, because I just feel after making the massive mistake of getting himself out of the Williams constract to stay at BAR/Honda, he then sat in a crap car for a few years, but knew he had put himself there and didn't bitch and moan - he took it like a man and I respect him for that. But my allegience lies with McLaren, mainly because Senna was racing for them when I got into F1. Now I like Hamilton because he drives a lot like Senna did, but my greatest allegience lies with the team. Similarly, I have fans who are big Ferrari fans, but not necessarily Raikonnen or Massa fans. So the need for teams ad constructors is a huge draw for F1. By getting rid of the need for teams by reducing their capacity to build and customise the cars, Ecclestone and Mosely will kill off the sport altogether.

[ChrisSteeleAteMyHamster]

The 40mil isn't for everything. Just certain aspects of the car. It's also been repeatedly stated that it would allow teams to develop their car however they want so it's likely that cars would be even MORE different but that everyone has the same amount of money to develop in clever and intelligent ways.

Anyway Talksport were talking to an F1 reporter guy who's been reporting for decades and he says that the FIA knew that there would be issues from day one so set the amount really low, expected the backlash and they'd all come up with a new agreement where everyone feels like they've won a little. Happens in F1 all the time apparantly.

[Dan McG]

This salary cap hurts my brain.

My Idea: 250mil budget cap for all teams, over the whole year, for everything. Anybody who doesn't comply is thrown out for 2 seasons. No exceptions. Re-price legal parts, and let them trade stuff off. You buy a really good engine, you have to deal with a crap gearbox and below average diffuser. This way it makes the team think, and work with the drivers. For example, you could use a crap gearbox because the driver is exceptional at judging when to change, and use the saved money to bump up the engine.

[EddieG]

This salary cap hurts my brain.

My Idea: 250mil budget cap for all teams, over the whole year, for everything. Anybody who doesn't comply is thrown out for 2 seasons. No exceptions. Re-price legal parts, and let them trade stuff off. You buy a really good engine, you have to deal with a crap gearbox and below average diffuser. This way it makes the team think, and work with the drivers. For example, you could use a crap gearbox because the driver is exceptional at judging when to change, and use the saved money to bump up the engine.

And we'd have trouble with Ferrari again

[Dan McG]

This salary cap hurts my brain.

My Idea: 250mil budget cap for all teams, over the whole year, for everything. Anybody who doesn't comply is thrown out for 2 seasons. No exceptions. Re-price legal parts, and let them trade stuff off. You buy a really good engine, you have to deal with a crap gearbox and below average diffuser. This way it makes the team think, and work with the drivers. For example, you could use a crap gearbox because the driver is exceptional at judging when to change, and use the saved money to bump up the engine.

And we'd have trouble with Ferrari again

Screw Ferrari. Get Aston Martin or Porche in there instead.

Stupid Thought - imagine Bentley making an F1 Car.

[EddieG]

I want to see Volkswagen in F1

[Dan McG]

I want to see Volkswagen in F1

Throw a nosecone on the Golf, rip off the roof, change everything metal to carbon fibre, add a wing and you've got an F1 car...

[GA!]

Renault threaten to pull-out too.

They need to kill off this idea. It's ludicrous anyway - either keep all those people employed, or you're fucked. Really not fair.

[Adam]

I don't know why they keep suggesting so many changes. This points system they're bringing in next year is crap and pointless, just leave it as it is. The seasons been great so far, although I do hope Button doesn't keep winning every race.

[GA!]

I hope he does win them. Then Bernie will think: "Oh shit, if this was next year, the season is over and it's June."

Edited May 13, 2009 by MeGA Man

[maninblack]

I hope they all fuck off.

The sooner the cars are even, the better.

Ermm... Ferrari are arguing that the budget cap will mean the cars AREN'T even. The budget cap isn't mandatory, and some teams feel 40million is just too low. Eddie Jordan was talking at the weekend and said one of the teams (I can't remember which, I think it was BMW or Williams or someone like that) had a budget of 200million last year. Coming down from 200million to 40 million is one year is a ridiculous ask. That's why some of the teams feel like it's just going to end up as a two tier championship - those who want to work under the budget cap (currently two teams) and those that don't (everyone else - bar one that is sitting on the fence).

Ferrari are stating that at least at the minute all the cars are subject to the same regulations as each other, it's just up to designers to do the best within those limitations. That's exactly what's happened this year with the split-level diffusers and people are saying it's one of the best seasons in years. The optional budget cap (with penalties for those who don't use it and rewards for those that do) will create anything BUT even cars.

Virtually every team acknowledges the need for the costs in F1 to be reduced. Many of the teams have said a budget cap would be a good idea - but 40million is just too low a budget considering the price of the technology.

The only reason Bernie Ecclestone and Max Mosley are proposing this is to get more cars on the grid. And with Super Aguri dropping out last season and the Honda/Brawn team only just making it back for this season, I guess they fear for the numbers involved. Plus more drivers isn't going to hurt the competition on raceday. The only problem, especially with Ecclestone, is the ridiculous way that he uses F1 to line his own wallet. One of the biggest reasons that the sport is unsustainable is because Ecclestone and the FIA bleed the money out of the sport at every opportunity. The teams, and certainly the tracks, get virtually nothing from F1, while drivers are paying way over the odds for the super-licences they need to race. The cost this year was just under £10,000 for the licence - then the drivers are charged (just under) a further £2,000 for every point they won last season - so they are effectively punished financially for their success by having to pay more. After winning the championship last year, Hamilton had to pay £242,000 just to compete in the sport! Where else are teams or players made to pay to be a part of the sport, with the cost dependant on how well they performed the previous year?

If Ecclestone wants costs down, how about subsidising from his own over-inflated wallet?

THIS. The contract terms given to teams, drivers and racetracks to get into F1 are ridiculously one-sided. Bernie probably needs more money now to pay for his pending divorce, but if they want more teams to enter F1 they'll need to lower the entry barriers. Maybe give higher payouts to smaller teams when it comes to revenue sharing, or subsidize their startup budget so they get good equipment for at least the first season.

I can see the logic of the FIA lowballing the teams with a $40 million cap, so there'll be room to raise it. But I don't agree with how they'll restrict the technology used. F1 should always be about the pinnacle of automotive racing technology.

Edited May 14, 2009 by maninblack

[EddieG]

Thinking about all cars being even and what not.

Is the A1 still around?

'cause I thought of the idea of Ferrari starting their own version of the A1.

All drivers drive in the same Ferrari, no teams. Just every racer for himself.

[maninblack]

Thinking about all cars being even and what not.

Is the A1 still around?

'cause I thought of the idea of Ferrari starting their own version of the A1.

All drivers drive in the same Ferrari, no teams. Just every racer for himself.

Yep, they just had their British GP earlier this month (http://www.a1gp.com). According to the site, Ferrari is already supplying the cars to A1GP; the league's cars are based on the F2004.

[Vector]

Looks like despite the disagreement from the big F1 teams about it, the budget cap is still catching the interest of more teams looking to join F1 as deadlines draw near.

Right now, Formula Three team Litespeed is now considering joining F1 and is collaborating with MGI Ltd, led by former Toyota and Force India technical director Mike Gascoyne. Also, Lola is set to submit/already submitted an application to join F1, so they might be a likely candidate to join the grid next year.

Elsewhere, coming across this piece of news on the BBC Teletext, and also found here, talks between F1 teams and the FIA fell through earlier today with regards to the budget cap, with Max Mosley mentioning that there'd be no compromise on the buget cap, though agreed that a two-tier championship was not acceptable. It also mentioned that Ferrari has filed an injunction to block the proposed buget cap.

[Adam]

Is it just me who isn't really looking forward to this weekends Monaco GP? My main concerns are that the race will not be very exciting as there are minimal overtaking opportunities (I suppose not strictly true but I can't see a lot going off, I mean the entire circuit up until the tunnel doesn't lend itself to smooth overtaking moves), and Nakajima has more than enough opportunity to spear his car straight into a wall, leading to a lengthy safety car period and ruining the race.

I can't watch it live anyway, as it clashes with Scunthorpe vs Millwall.

[Katsuya]

Bwahaha, Lewis fucks it up. And everyone was going "Hamilton could be on pole here!"...not today!

[Matt]

Bwahaha, Lewis fucks it up. And everyone was going "Hamilton could be on pole here!"...not today!

This.