Major League Baseball 2010

[gunnar hendershow]

Bagwell will get in, it'll take him a few years though. He'll votes increase every year. He's an Andre Dawson guy.

[The Buscher]

Bagwell not getting in on his first ballot has me a bit worried that Piazza is going to be screwed and left off on his first try in 2013. Some voters have basically said that they will blackball every steroid era slugger even if they have no connections. Anybody who says that openly should be stripped of their right to vote.

Also, maybe its the Mets fandom in me but John Franco being one-and-done is kind of ridiculous. I can live with him not getting in but how does a guy with 424 career saves not get enough votes to stay on the ballot for more than one year?

[Meacon Keaton]

That's a good question since Lee Smith has 478 saves and got almost 50% of the votes.

[HailtotheYo]

Yeah, I love the MLB Writer's selective moral superiority.

Franco ? Eh, I personally loved the guy but in all honesty he was someone that was "good" for an extended period. Never saved 40 games (high of 39), was plauged with injuries, and the last 5 or so years of his career were a steep fall off from where he was (combined 8 saves over last 5 years). For a reliever he walked a good chunk of guys and gave up hits. He also never had a 'dominant' trait that most relievers that are "above" the rest have.

He's more of a Hall of Honor guy than a HOF guy. I don't necessarily agree with it, but can absolutely see how he is one and done. Especially with the tail end of his career and that being the freshest in people's mind.

Bagwell I think is a guy that will benefit from all of this "Steriod Era" bullshit. No links, no mentions in anything official ... absolutely nothing fingering this guy as dirty. When looking through that tainted glass that the Writers do, his numbers look twice as good. Yeah, there's that whole "we're not voting for anyone from that era" ... ORLY ? So you're not voting for JUNIOR ?! Bullshit, the Writers have backed themselves into a corner with this entire thing and it is guys like Bagwell that are going to be their "beacon of light" in all of this. Rightfully so too.

[sahyder1]

Bagwell will get in eventually. There are a lot of writers who differentiate between a HOFer and a first ballot HOFer. I'm not saying I agree with that but that is how it is. Franco I'm surprised didn't stay on the ballot. Relief pitchers are sort of like special team guys in football. They hardly ever get the recognition. Franco was a big part of the Mets success in the mid to late 80s. He would have had more saves too but he agreed to move out of the closers when the Mets got Benitez. It wasn't a performance issue. He had 38 saves the year before. I am somewhat surprised McGwire slipped in voting this year. I was expecting to go up slightly.

Great to see Alomar go in. Great to see him get his due yesterday for the most part from the baseball media. People need to get over the spitting incident since Hirschbeck did years ago. Heck, Sports Illustrated did a article on their friendship back in 2000.

[JStarr]

Bagwell will get in eventually. There are a lot of writers who differentiate between a HOFer and a first ballot HOFer. I'm not saying I agree with that but that is how it is. Franco I'm surprised didn't stay on the ballot. Relief pitchers are sort of like special team guys in football. They hardly ever get the recognition. Franco was a big part of the Mets success in the mid to late 80s. He would have had more saves too but he agreed to move out of the closers when the Mets got Benitez. It wasn't a performance issue. He had 38 saves the year before. I am somewhat surprised McGwire slipped in voting this year. I was expecting to go up slightly.

I'm assuming you meant '90s?

Franco kind of got screwed out of a lot of saves during the '90s, since he got to New York just in time to watch the Mets go into the crapper. (Seriously, 1993? 59 wins total? The whole team combined for 22 saves, and Anthony Young had his infamous 1-16 season?) The fact that John saved 30 of the 55 wins in the '94 strike year (led the NL, he did) says that he could have closed on 40 that season.

John would have been better off staying in Cincinnati, but then we may never have been treated to the singular brand of dangerous pitching that was one Robert Keith Dibble.

Still, Goose Gossage never saved 40 in a season and he got in. Was it the fact that he had a cool nickname or that he had the cooler facial hair? Franco's hits per 9 are equal to Eckersley's and his walks per 9 are equal to Gossage's.

I always felt for Franco, because I liked to watch a lot of Mets games, but still, if he never gets in, I'm okay with it. It's Lee Smith not getting in while Goose does that really irks me.

[sahyder1]

yeah, I meant the 90s. After he agreed to move aside for Benitez the Phillies offered him a deal to come in as a closer and chase the saves record. I agree completely with you on the Lee Smith argument.

[HailtotheYo]

Franco's hits per 9 are equal to Eckersley's and his walks per 9 are equal to Gossage's.

Only thing to this ... is that Eckersley was a starter for the first half of his career. His first 6 seasons as a closer saw Eckersley keep under 8.0 h/9 ... he also did it 4 times as a starter. Franco only did it 5 times in his entire career. Takin only Eckersley's numbers as a closer his h/9 are only 7.71 ... much better than Franco. Throw in the fact that Eckersley didn't walk anyone (his w/9 as a starter are better than Franco's as a closer), ever and you get the differentiation between Franco and the true HOF closer guys that I was going after.

Gossage ... benefits from a couple of things. One, the stupid fucking pinstripes and the belief in the baseball world that if you did anything really well while in NY then it is HOF worthy. For Gossage, he's also in that time just before the true closer came into the game. Guys like Goose, Bruce Sutter came into the game in the 8th and even 7th sometimes. His numbers are a little diluted comparitively because he pitched "more" so to speak than the closers of today. The biggest thing though, is all about when he pitched. Only Rollie Fingers/Hoyt Wilhelm before him had ever been primarily a relief guy (in this manner). There was a point in his career when he was second only to Fingers in total saves and was also (at the time of retirement) one of only 4 guys with 300 saves. The 300 number was thought to have been what would be the "magic" number at that time. Turns out not so much, but then again ... 400 HRS is turning out to be not such a big deal as well. Can't fault Goose for that. He's still third in wins in relief and is second behind only Wilhelm in strikeouts for guys that were primarily relievers. He had a stretch of 7 years where his ERA was never above 2.62 and also had a year where he was 3rd in voting for both the AL Cy and MVP.

And the case for Goose actually illustrates my point about Franco perfectly. Goose had those times where he was dominant, and he also had a great fastball and has things on his resume that put him "above" other guys. Now, don't get me wrong. He most assuredly gets help from pitching when he did. However, who's to say that if he'd have been a little later and been more of a 9th inning only guy, that he wouldn't have been even better ?

[HailtotheYo]

Story

So the Yanks do sign everybody.

(seriously though, the move is good and fills a hole they have ... it's just really funny)

[Meacon Keaton]

Without clicking, I'm assuming that's the Andruw Jones story?

In all honesty, he's a great signing for us. Our starting outfield is two lefties (Granderson, Gardner) and a switch hitter (Swish). We really needed a right handed hitter, plus he's still solid in the field. Maybe playing in Yankee stadium will make him hit like he's nineteen, again?

[Guest Spud Webb]

Vernon Wells and his contract traded to Anaheim for Mike Napoli. Incredible move.

[Meacon Keaton]

Did the Jays unload his whole contract?

[Guest Spud Webb]

It's not clear yet but that would have to be the assumption.

[Toe]

I actually liked Wells, but his contract was awful and tied down a lot of money that the Jays could have used elsewhere. I guess Rajai Davis will be the front runner to fill the void in center field.

[Meacon Keaton]

It's going to be weird seeing him in something besides a Blue Jays uniform, that's for sure. But that seems to be the trent for them the last couple years. What homegrown stud can they get rid of next year?

[Ananas]

From Rosenthal:

" Sources: Wells and cash to #Angels, Napoli and Rivera to #BlueJays. #MLB"

So now the question is how much cash? Just from a value standpoint alone, it would have to be well into the 8 digit range for this to make sense.

[Toe]

I wonder where Rivera fits into the Jays plans.

[Ananas]

And now Shi Davidi of the Canadian Press reporting that the Jays may not be sending any money in the deal. There are no words.

[Lowerdeck]

Manny Ramirez and Johnny Damon both sign with the Rays.

Damon's contract includes incentives for how many fans actually show up to Rays home games... seriously.

EDIT: Just noticed the 2011 topic. Oops.

Edited January 22, 2011 by Lowerdeck