Civilization Thread!

[Mick]

Just play as Venice and don't buy any city-states. Problem solved

[Pizza]

Dammit, attempted a coup at 60% over Budapest, who has coal and aluminum. It went poorly. Chances of victory have diminished with that.

[Mick]

The Chinese denounce me. Okay, fine.

Next turn: "I propose we enact an embargo on China."

China: "This is a blatant attack on our interests!"

Yes, yes it is.

[Sousa]

I love how Shaka sets up shop outside my borders, makes himself at home by building a couple cities, and then I get the diplomatic penalty for having owning lands he covets.

Oh Mick Mick Mick Mick Mick. You silly goose.

ALL LANDS ARE SHAKA'S LANDS.

So Impis get a free ranged attack in which they can't be hurt before they attack, they get upgrades that let them run all over the map and support each other basically for free, they're cheaper than other units financially because of the Zulu unique ability, and on top of that they require no resources and are unlocked through a powerful tech (Civil Service) that helps research and growth and contains an excellent wonder.

And furthermore, when they're done, you can upgrade them to Riflemen and they can still run all over the map and support each other after you upgrade them.

Shaka is freaking overkill, guys.

[Mick]

Another Diplomatic Victory, probably my last one on Prince. When I get some free time, I'm moving up to King.

Nothing too exciting to report, though.

[Pizza]

Got Eiffel Tower, but was beaten to Broadway and the Louvre. Probably not going to win culture, but space is still in play.

[Sousa]

Use your Impis to take Broadway and the Louvre.

[Mick]

Or just do what I do when I run behind for culture: Eliminate competitors

[TKz]

Man, motherfucking Rome guys.

A few ages in, combined with roads and the right resources, I'm pumping out buildings and units from each city so fast that I have to select a new production nearly every turn. Wonders finishing in like 6 turns is a glorious thing.

[Berober]

Nothing is more satisfying than buying an army as soon as the country you're at war with come rolling towards your borders.

You thought you were smart to double-cross me Monty?

[Mick]

I still think the best story here is Sousa vs Egyptian Siege Tower

Edit: Aside from me nuking myself, obviously.

[Sousa]

Oh yeah, Monty backstabbed the Zulu while we were off campaigning in Istanbul as well. He actually took uMgungundlovu, which was my Petra city. He held it for exactly one turn. And you can see how that's going now.

I like to think that I'm good enough now that I wouldn't get vaporized by a damn Siege Tower out of the blue.

EDIT: ahahahahahahahahahahaha, I just realized the siege tower game was also as the zulu. And the city Rammy took was also uMgungundlovu. I think that city name makes the AI mad.

[Berober]

Four turns from a diplomatic victory and I was blinded by Korean science

[Sousa]

Look at all of the pretty things Gandhi was nice enough to build for me!

[Sousa]

In lieu of actually playing a game (I don't really have time just now), here's Sousa's Impressions on Everyone He's Played So Far with Arbitrary Numerical Rankings Because This is EWB and We Love That Shit:

Arabia - 10/10: Arabia is probably the single best civ in the whole game. Being able to extend trade routes dovetails nicely with their start bias toward desert. Grab the Petra and go to town. If that wasn't enough, they also get one of the best UUs in the game, and in case you can't wrap things up with Camel Archers, then you have double oil to help win the game. Add in the Bazaar and Arabia is absolutely nuts.

China - 10/10: AND IN SECOND PLACE. Yeah, China is fucking awesome and it's basically a dead heat. Where Arabia has the best UU in the game and a great UB, China has the best UB in the game (LIBRARY + GOLD - MAINTENANCE OH MY GOD YOU GUYS) and a great UU. And citadel trolling is less costly! Basically, China is totally awesome and only slightly lower than Arabia because, while they're good at everything, not all of their advantages are universal like Arabia's are.

Netherlands - 9/10: I'm probably overrating them, but fuck it, I don't care, CIVILIZABERMETRICS ARE FLAWLESS. The only thing that keeps the Dutch away from the tippy-top is that their stuff is situational--you might not get awesome Polder land (though the start bias suggests you will), you might not get to use Sea Beggars much, and you might hate the fact that both of their uniques fall on different parts of the tech tree. But Polders are SO GOOD and Sea Beggars are SO GOOD and being able to keep happiness from trading resources is SO GOOD and the Dutch are SO GOOD. Go down Commerce, get a ton of gold, and win however you want. That's what bumps them above the Zulu: they're good at everything.

Zulu - 9/10: This was probably the most fun I've had in a game. As described above, Impis are a load of fun, and turning them into Riflemen and Great War Infantry keeps it going. The only reason they're not tops is because you have to go to war to get the full Zulu experience, while Arabia can win however you want and happens to be really, really good at war.

Persia - 9/10: If you properly manage it, Achaemenid Legacy is amazing. Beeline Civil Service to grab the Chicken Pizza, then head to Guilds to get your Artists' Guild up and running. Then, when the time comes, run INFINITE AWESOME GOLDEN AGES AND ROFLSTOMP THE UNIVERSE. You also get Satrap's Court for more smilies and therefore MORE AWESOME GOLDEN AGES. Also there are Immortals, but holy shit GOLDEN AGES.

Shoshone - 9/10: Two words: Great. Expanse. This might be the best unique ability I've seen so far. Just grab land and immediately have awesome cities. Troll your neighbors! Oh yeah and I guess they have really awesome scouts too. Great Expanse, you guys!

Inca - 9/10: I found them a bit boring, but I never quite finished my game--they're probably worth picking up again. Terrace Farms are a really, really good building, though, and being able to run all over the hill country helps get things done quickly. I'm going to revisit these guys down the road because the numbers seem there for them to be powerful, but I never quite got that game off the ground.All of this is bullshit. The Slinger is a hilarious way to troll barbs ("Oh, you're an attacking Brute? G2G BAIIIIIIII"). Terrace farms can--with the right start--give you four food and two hammers on a hill tile before you research Civil Service. And hill-running? Yeah. The Inca are fucking beastly. 11/10 if you get a proper mountainous/hilly map like the one I got.

Maya - 9/10: The Long Count is a fun bonus, and getting science from a first-tier building is nuts. The UU sucks, but everything else is really powerful.

Portugal - 8/10: oh god i hate you portugal why are you so good. Feitorias are Bazaars that require a bit too much effort, but Portugal is all about the GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLD, which is of course Sousa's favorite bonus. And the best part is that all of their cool shit is right around the same part of the tech tree. I'm going to pretend this civ is called Gibraltar because it cannot possibly be Portugal.

Germany (post-patch) - 8/10: There's a bit of cool novelty in getting Brutes and Hand Axe units all your own, but most of ol' Bismarck just doesn't do it for me. Landsknechts are fantastic defensive units just because they're so cheap, and Panzers are nice. The real appeal of Germany is cheaper unit maintenance... which Shaka does better. And he gets Impis. And he gets Ikhandas. In a Zulu-less world Germany ranks higher, but... meh.IS THE STRAIGHT SHIT GUYS. The Hanse elevates Germany from middle-of-the-road to FREAKING AMAZING. Just set up your four cities, find your nearest City-States, and keep your trade routes in your own little circle. I almost never build Banks, but Hanses are so good. I still maintain that Furor Teutonicus is not so hot, but the Hanse might actually surpass the Paper Maker as the best UB in the game, and that straps the damn rocket to Germany. PATCH'D, baby.

Ethiopia - 8/10: Ethiopia is well equipped to get a quick pantheon, and Tradition will give you free culture and faith with them. I can see them being hard to take to war--they want to stay small and tall--but they have the equipment to do that very well. Stele is one of the best UBs I've seen so far, though.

Venice - 8/10: It's situational, but hey, this is EWB, we all love Venice. I think what I like most about them is that they're just so fun. There's something to be said for using underhanded tactics and sneakiness to run the map, and being able to buy up a massive army if someone should try to take your precious little one city is icing on the cake.

Poland - 8/10: I wish I'd had the foresight to take them to war, because Poland seems to do that well. That said, a free Social Policy at age up is an insane bonus for one reason: it lets you take these new policy branches immediately when they become available. Being able to take Rationalism the moment you hit the Renaissance is huge for tech. Everything else about Poland is a little eh.

Korea - 8/10: Science! Beakers! Korea is very straightforward and really only suited to generating a ton of Great Scientists, but that's a versatile way to play--with a tech lead you can do whatever you want, get wonders earlier, etc. The Hwacha is not very interesting, but Korea is good.

Siam - 8/10: Father Governs Children governs everything else about Siam. Go Patronage and run the table. I had a hard time getting my Siam game off the ground thanks to an impressive neighbor, but Siam is still really, really good.

Mongolia - 8/10: The Mongolian UA that grants a bonus to fighting City-States is almost worse than useless; it tempts the player down a bad path when the player should want to have lots of City-State buddies. That said, everything else about Mongolia is nuts, from Keshiks that can attack and retreat a ridiculous distance (spam them and just pepper cities) to Khans that can keep up. Mongolia is pretty much a one-trick pony, but that trick is CONQUERING THE WORLD.

Morocco - 8/10: I was prepared to rank Morocco low, but the longer I played, the more I realized how much of Morocco's greatness lies under the hood--trade routes that give a little bit more money (and a bit of culture), incoming trade routes giving more gold, etc. Kasbah is great with the Petra, and Berber Cavalry is... ehhhhh, not so hot. But the ways in which Morocco hums under the hood makes them a powerhouse.

Aztecs - 7/10: I like the Aztecs better as barb-busters than the Germans. Healing Jaguars who perform well in jungles will take out barbs, give you early culture, and let you grab Tradition in short order (along with camp gold). Floating Gardens are very nice as well. The help tapers off a bit in the late game (the culture from murder doesn't scale well), but a fast start can snowball quickly, and the Aztecs are good at getting off the ground.

England - 7/10: I don't really care for the extra spy because spies aren't that great, but England is very, very good so long as there's plenty of sea. Get the Great Lighthouse for even more insanity. That said, 3-range anything is really nice, so Longbows are a fantastic supporting unit as well; however, they're in a weird part of the tech tree if you want to rule the seas as well, which knocks England down a bit.

Greece - 7/10: Hellenic League is a lot of fun--Alex has an easier time winning Diplomatic than anyone else. His unique units are kind of boring, though.

Assyria - 7/10: Siege Towers. Siege Towers, Siege Towers, Siege Towers. Roll these babies up to your opponent and watch the walls start crumbling down. The Unique Ability can be excellent, but--as with the Zulu--it forces the player down only one victory path. And Assyria, unfortunately, just isn't as good as the Zulu at winning like that.

Babylon - 7/10: A free Great Scientist at Writing is, essentially, double science after researching a second-tier tech. Babylon can therefore utterly smoke the early game, which puts you on good footing for later. That said, they have awful uniques otherwise. It's a testament to how strong Ingenuity is that ol' Mr. Nezzar scores this high.

Brazil - 7/10: Brazil is made to do one thing--win Culture--but they do it really, really well. Starting bias favors Brazilwood camps, while Carnivale ups Tourism even more. Not very versatile, but they do what they do pretty well; it's just not as fun to be really, really good at Culture as it is to be really, really good at war.

Carthage - 7/10: For one reason and one reason only: FREE. HARBORS. But yeah, Carthage has nice synergy with quaquatrabagaremes or whatever for running a lot of sea trade routes, getting the Colossus, and running the map. On maps with a ton of islands they might be up there at Zulu level, but since they're contingent on getting coastal cities they get bumped a smidge.

Songhai - 7/10: Triple gold from encampments is so much better than Germany's ability--Gold > units any day of the week. Mud Pyramid Mosque is really nice and suggests a religious push--they can become beastly. Unique unit is nothing to write home about, but two out of three ain't bad!

Ottomans - 6/10: I was expecting to rank the Ottomans pretty low, but--and maybe this was just a great map--they really caught me off guard. Barbary Corsairs, while not quite as interesting as Germany's UA, seems to work more often and works well on coastal maps. Janissaries are just great, adding healing to a unit I really like. The Lancer replacement is... really not much better than the Lancer, the most useless unit of its age. Ol' Sully isn't going to run every kind of map, but I had a great time with him.

Huns - 6/10: Attila is about as one-dimensional as they come. You can't really play the Huns like you would anyone else; the best way to run the map is actually to AVOID Writing and just try to take as much as you can early. This requires pretty careful management, but I had won a capital by turn 86 on normal speed. Extra pasture production and free Animal Husbandry are both good, and the unique units are fun... provided you beeline them and go for a target of opportunity. If you like throwing everything you have behind an insane campaign that has no right to actually work, Attila is your guy. As it happens, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I LIKE.

Polynesia - 6/10: Pretty situational. That said, I love, love, love the Moai. Like Brazil, they favor a Culture win, but they're not quite as good at it, and Wayfinding isn't actually as interesting as it seems (yes, you can embark, but you'll have no appreciable line of sight over the ocean). Kind of meh but saved by a good unique improvement.

Egypt - 6/10: Burial Tombs! Gold! Gooooooooooooooold! Oh yeah they also get a small wonder bonus. Egypt is okay, I guess, but with carefully managed Great Engineers and Tradition you can get the wonders you want anyway, and a 20% bonus to building just doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

Rome - 6/10: Ballista can fuck off, but everything else about Rome is pretty nice. That said, you need a powerful capital for them to work, and Civ V seems more reluctant to give you one than Civ IV was. It might take some reloading, but Rome will get the job done.

France - 5/10: Pretty much the middle of the road. City of Lights is okay, but as with Rome you need to find that one perfect Paris, and if you get it, you get less than you do as Rome. Chateau isn't as exciting as the Moai, and the Musketeer isn't exciting at all. France is fine but no better than that.

India - 5/10: India's okay--as you saw earlier in the thread I got a totally baller start with them, which helped. That said, their UA can be a tremendous liability and points the player away from war, and I love war so very very much. As with Rome, get a good capital and you're probably on your way.

America (post-patch) - 5/10: Cheaper tile expansion is a horrible, horrible excuse for a bonus, and the B17 comes too late to be of much value--though when it does arrive, it is utterly fantastic. Minutemen are pretty fun due to super-mobility; you might even use them in place of Cavalry for Arty rushes later on. Still not really great, but the patch added Golden Age powers to the Minutemen, which makes them pretty great. Two great unique units and a God-awful UA sounds like a five to me.

Spain - 4/10: What can I say? When I rolled my Spain map, I got nothing--absolutely nothing--that benefited me as Spain. No empty islands to settle, no Natural Wonders in sight, nothing. I had a great game anyway just by virtue of playing well, but nothing about being Spain helped me win. I can imagine them being powerful if you get lucky, but depending that heavily on luck strikes me as bottom of the barrel.

Indonesia - 4/10: But 6/10 on Archipelago. If you can't find the islands, Indonesia is worthless. If you can and you accidentally settle on unrevealed coal, then congratulations, instead of coal you get pepper. Nothing else is very interesting about Indonesia.

Celts - 4/10: A pretty good unique unit is paired up with a middling UB and a UA that's limited. Yes, you can work forests to get faith, but forests have terrible food output and limit early growth. I guess you can get that early faith when you build your first Granary, but I found them tough to get started.

Sweden - 4/10: I... guess Nobel Prize is okay? I found myself lagging behind because some of my scads of Great People were being sent off to Cahokia or whatever. It's basically instant friendship, which is cool. Hakkalapalapatabaganaga is worthless, but Caroleans add a really awesome promotion to a great unit to keep the war machine turning. Sweden's got some good things going for it but is mostly pretty meh.

Byzantium - 3/10: Snore. Being shoehorned into chasing faith sucks, and the reward isn't really that great. Uniques all replace units I hardly ever use. Next!

Austria - 3/10: I really, really wanted to like Austria. Diplomatic Marriage is at least fun, especially since I ended up on a map with Venice and Greece and two of us were just gobbling up city-states that Alex in turn couldn't befriend. But it's the Mongol problem: why take over city-states when you often benefit more from being their friend? UU is pretty blah but Coffeehouses add a spiffy bonus to an otherwise useless building. Go home, Austria, you're drunk.

Russia - 2/10: Double strategic resources is good for shortages and for trades. Beyond that... yeah, beyond that there's not much. Kreposts are worthless and Cossacks are marginally better than a unit I hardly ever use--by the time you get Cavalry, the far superior Artillery and Riflemen are right around the corner. And giving them Dat Achievement?

RAINBOW DASH IS NOT AMUSED.

Japan (post-patch) - 2/10: Tying culture to fishing boats and atolls is probably the best thing Japan has going for it. The other aspect of Bushido will ensure that you do some damage that you would otherwise have no business doing, but if it's coming up a lot, that means you're outnumbered and you're doing war wrong. Samurai are a replacement for a unit I rarely use (and one that comes right before the far more useful Musketman), and their Great General generation bonus isn't enough to compensate. Zeros aren't at all interesting considering how bad the AI is at planes. I can see what they were going for with the patch improvements, but Japan still comes out pretty boring in the end.

Denmark - 1/10: I mean. Denmark is... fun? Berzerkers look cool, and being able to move after disembarking is at least marginally useful. But Denmark is really vanilla. They only beat America because I liked using their unique units more than I liked America's.

Iroquois - *wanking motion*/10: Okay, so America has a horrible UA but marginal uniques. Iroquois have a pretty good UA (but not spectacular), a UU that you will never use because Swordsmen are worthless in BNW, and a UB that is actively detrimental to your game. Seriously, the Longhouse will pan out better in maybe one town. If you're lucky. In every other respect it is worse than the building it replaces. Fuck you, Hiawatha, I'm glad Disney's Pocahontas undid everything you were trying to achieve.

I'll edit in the rest as I play them.

[gunnar hendershow]

Oh come on Sousa, Rome is at least a 67 in brawling.

[Sousa]

Sousa's Civilizabermetrics are flawless and I will hear no complaints about them!

Oh, who should I be on the Earth map in my next game? I'm thinking of taking Good Queen Bess out for a spin.

[METALMAN]

Sousa's Civilizabermetrics are flawless and I will hear no complaints about them!

You mentioned Indonesia twice and gave them two different scores. >_>

[Sousa]

The one with the Moai is supposed to be Polynesia. I can't tell these filthy savages apart!

[KevinStorm]

Sousa is right about Arabia. I'm in the 1920s or so in my game that randomed an archipelago map(with start bias turned off), and I'm a beast. The only problem I have is that I don't have any coal.