EWR 2012 Stats Update: August ***PLEASE USE SPOILER TAGS***

[Bill1996]

Hey, does anyone have any tips on Mediafire right now? I tried going to the download page in both Firefox and Chrome and the captcha's still not showing up for me.

Odd, I just tried all three links and got them to work... Had to try a couple times, but each eventually worked... Could be high traffic time, which might be slowing the ability to download down.

-Bill

[Bill1996]

Also, why I'm on here, I wanted to give my opinions on some promotion size adjustment that I personally feel we shoould look intoo doing. I posted the chart in the first post so that eeryone could see where all of the promotions currently are. I said last month that I would hold my opinions back until next month, so, here, they are. Feel free to discuss these or other potential adjustments to promotions. Again, that's why I put the chart up.

I honestly think that both APW and SCW should be removed. APW isn't what is once was and SCW, from the best of my research is pretty much just a trainig facility, as opposed to an actual promotion. At the very least, if people want to keep these two promotions in, I think they should both be dropped to a Small size, as opposed to Regional, which they both currently are.

I also feel IWC should be dropped to a Small promotion, While I don't think they should be removed, since they seem to be pretty up-to-date, they aren't the promotion that they used to be and I think they'd fit better as a Small promotion.

HWA is another that I feel should be dropped down the list. I don't think that these days, they are worthy of a 72 image at the Regional level. I don't know that a drop all the way to Small is necessary, but I do think their image should be dropped a significant amount at the least.

ECCW, IMO should be a Regional promotion. They go to various parts of the Province of British Columbia in Canada. That, IMO, is a pretty good definition of "Regional." Looking at the chart, I'd have them in APW's spot, right around 30 at the Regional level.

Finally, the one that's probably gonna create the most debate... Shimmer. At this point, I feel they should be a Cult promotion. Here's my reasoning:

First off, the relationship with the newly formed Shine promotion in Florida, IMO gives Shimmer a big boost. If you combine Shimmer and Shine, similar to what was done with DGUSA and EVOLVE, the two promotions (Shimmer and Shine) will combine to have a minimum of 21 shows throiughout the next 12 months. Here's the breakdown:

Shine: 1 iPPV per month - 12 shows

Shimmer: 2 tapings of 4 DVDs per taping - 8 shows

That's 20 events. Finally, Shimmer has announced that they will be a part of WrestleCon, which will be taking place on WrestleMania weekend in New Jersey. Shimmer will be filming volume 53 on Saturday, April 6th. That would again mean that Shimmer and Shine will combine for 21 events over the next 12 months.

Other reasons that I feel Shimmer should be Cult:

The WrestleCon event will have 5 promotions hosting live shows during the event: DGUSA, EVOLVE, CHI, CZW and Shimmer. The first 4 promotions are in the game as Cult promotions... I don't see why Shimmer should be any different. http://myemail.constantcontact.com/Official-WrestleCon-Announcement-With-DGUSA--EVOLVE--CHIKARA--CZW--SHIMMER--More-.html?soid=1103872774606&aid=i9X4tL9xkiM

Shine (The sister promotion to Shimmer) is primarily promoted by Sal Hamaoui and other members of the DGUSA/EVOLVE staff are heavily involved as well. Lenny Leonard, who does PBP for DGUSA/EVOLVE was the PBP commentator for the first Shine event last month and he mentioned that the attendance for the first Shine event was larger than the last EVOLVE show, with both events taking place in the same venue.

Based on the currrent chart, I'd put the Shimmer/Shine promotion at around 20 Cult, give or take a few image points. Two promotions that are currently Cult (PWG and PWS) I'm not really 100% should be that high and, based on if we adjust those promotions, along with others around that area, that could change my mind on she Shimmer/Shine image number.

But, I do feel that Shimmer/Shine should be a Cult promotion at this point... Behind DG-EVO and right around CZW's level... I don't knot how often CZW runs and/or how many fans they draw to shows to know for sure if they should be above or below CZW.

Again, feel free to discuss... Just giving my opinions.

-Bill

[Guest mr. potato head]

SHIMMER as cult makes perfect sense to me. Surprised to learn it's not already.

I'd also recommend leaving ECCW at small. Based on the Upcoming Events and Results pages on their website, there are a few diffferent cities there, but one is Vancouver and the others I see (Surrey, Port Coquitlam, New Westminster) are all suburbs of Vancouver.

[notatardis]

I was pushing for Shimmer to be a Cult level when I first joined, so it has got my vote.

I thought we were bumping PWS down to regional though?

[notatardis]

Yeah, we're just going to accept the overness boost as part of the game and not worry about it. If we drop overnesses for TNA, why wouldn't we do it for all of the other promotions? Just doesn't make sense. Especially since with a Cult promotion like ROH, do you drop them 10 points off of where they "should" be, because of the possibility to rise in size twice? Just seems silly.

I will say that, with us not worrying about the overness boost, TNA and ROH should probably be a bit higher in image than they are currently. While I don't agree with the 10-15 points that Kris suggested earlier, I do think a 5-7 point boost should be discussed, especially since the reason we didn't want them higher was due to getting to the overness boost "too quickly."

We can discuss it further, but I think TNA would be good around 79 National, while ROH would be good at 83 Cult. Just my opinion on the actual numbers.

-Bill

Would that prevent them from gaining the boost too quicky? I think the general issue was several months into the game, TNA moved up to Global, and then a few months after that was constantly battling the WWE, which isn't realistic at all. I think as long as that timeline is elongated, it will suffice. Otherwise we're just going to be back at square one. I guess I mean to say, at some number, whatever that is, if they're on the precipice of moving up a level, then it's silly to put them there and not just bump the size. TNA doesn't strike me as an almost global company.

[notatardis]

TNA's ratings aren't THAT bad, they're still around the 1. whatever mark. I don't think Spike is more known than USA.

I was checking the internet and found tv by the numbers which came up with the .4-.5 rating numbers which was for the 18-49 viewership. In comparing the week of Julty 17 (the last two hour RAW) TNA had .5 with 1.316 million total viewers (source) while WWE had a 1.7 and 1.8 rating for the same viewership with 4.72 and 5.038 million viewers during the 9 and 10 o'clock hours (source.) When you average the total WWE RAW which comes out to about 4.88, which is actually nearly four times large audience. So yeah, TNA should be national. It is no where near WWE's level.

I understand what you're saying now. I agree with TNA being solid National as I did before, I just wasn't catching the specific ratings argument.

[Bill1996]

Yeah, we're just going to accept the overness boost as part of the game and not worry about it. If we drop overnesses for TNA, why wouldn't we do it for all of the other promotions? Just doesn't make sense. Especially since with a Cult promotion like ROH, do you drop them 10 points off of where they "should" be, because of the possibility to rise in size twice? Just seems silly.

I will say that, with us not worrying about the overness boost, TNA and ROH should probably be a bit higher in image than they are currently. While I don't agree with the 10-15 points that Kris suggested earlier, I do think a 5-7 point boost should be discussed, especially since the reason we didn't want them higher was due to getting to the overness boost "too quickly."

We can discuss it further, but I think TNA would be good around 79 National, while ROH would be good at 83 Cult. Just my opinion on the actual numbers.

-Bill

Would that prevent them from gaining the boost too quicky? I think the general issue was several months into the game, TNA moved up to Global, and then a few months after that was constantly battling the WWE, which isn't realistic at all. I think as long as that timeline is elongated, it will suffice. Otherwise we're just going to be back at square one. I guess I mean to say, at some number, whatever that is, if they're on the precipice of moving up a level, then it's silly to put them there and not just bump the size. TNA doesn't strike me as an almost global company.

Well, if you put TNA at 79 National, as I suggested, They'd need to gain 21 image points to get to Global. I don't really know how quickly image can be gained, but from my experience, it's 1-2 points per TV show and a bit more for a PPV... So, in the game, TNA would probably be pushing Global in around 2 months, assuming they continue to gain in image.

But, even if you keep them at 73, in 2 months of gameplay, you're still going to be around the low to mid 90's mark in image. Leaving them at 73 might mean it takes 2 1/2 months to get to Global as opposed to 2, but in the end, regardless of where you put them, it's not going to be 100% "realistic" because the image will be (or should be) going up.

There's not really a way to prevent TNA from battling WWE, unless TNA never gets within 40 points of WWE. With WWE at 78 image, they can only go 22 points higher. If TNA needs 21 points (again, using my suggestion of 79 National) just to get to Global, WWE should be right around the 100 Global mark by the time TNA is going Global.

In short, I don't think bumping TNA up to 79 National would get them into a war with WWE much quicker than keeping them at 73 would. In either case, WWE is gonna likely be near 100 Global by the time TNA hits the Global level, meaning that they won't go to war until TNA hits 60 Global (40 point within WWE's 100 Global).

Hope that makes sense.

-Bill

[Bill1996]

I thought we were bumping PWS down to regional though?

I think it's worthy of a discussion... Personally, I think thsy should be Regional. But, to be fair, I don't know a lot about them.

I was making suggestions based on what is in the game currently, that's why I said PWG and PWS were both currently Cult.

I don't want to just make a decision on my own... If someone else has an explanation as to why they should remain Cult, by all means we should discuss it.

-Bill

[TSweets]

SHIMMER as cult makes perfect sense to me. Surprised to learn it's not already.

I'd also recommend leaving ECCW at small. Based on the Upcoming Events and Results pages on their website, there are a few diffferent cities there, but one is Vancouver and the others I see (Surrey, Port Coquitlam, New Westminster) are all suburbs of Vancouver.

Re ECCW: completely agree, when is the last time they headed up to St. George? I Don't really see them touring the entire Province. Secondly, the Population in BC is less than Half of the states in the US, their exposure would be similar to a promotion that toured their state of Alabama, Louisiana, or Tennessee. Hell even Puerto Rico has a population just a few hundred thousand from BC, a Puerto Rican promotion would be on the same level. "That would be assuming the promotions had events across thier state/Province" They are not a regional promotion IMO.

[Bill1996]

SHIMMER as cult makes perfect sense to me. Surprised to learn it's not already.

I'd also recommend leaving ECCW at small. Based on the Upcoming Events and Results pages on their website, there are a few diffferent cities there, but one is Vancouver and the others I see (Surrey, Port Coquitlam, New Westminster) are all suburbs of Vancouver.

Re ECCW: completely agree, when is the last time they headed up to St. George? I Don't really see them touring the entire Province. Secondly, the Population in BC is less than Half of the states in the US, their exposure would be similar to a promotion that toured their state of Alabama, Louisiana, or Tennessee. Hell even Puerto Rico has a population just a few hundred thousand from BC, a Puerto Rican promotion would be on the same level. "That would be assuming the promotions had events across thier state/Province" They are not a regional promotion IMO.

OK, then, here's the thing...

Currently, British Columbia has a population of a little over 4.6 million: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/ig-gi/pop-bc-eng.htm

Puerto Rico's population is at just under 4 million: http://www.indexmundi.com/puerto_rico/demographics_profile.html

WWC, whch is a Puerto Rican promotion, is at the Regional level in the game... Keep in mind that there are 2 major promotions in Puerto Rico too... IWA (which isn't in the game) and WWC...

As far as I'm aware, ECCW has no "competition" in their area... Put that all together and they should be ahead of WWC, which again is a Regional promotion with a 67 image... That's 2/3 of the way to Cult.

Another point: ECCW seems to be running AT LEAST 2 shows, if not 3 shows a month. While, IMO, travel should be a factor in determining what size a promotion is, the amount of events that they do and the number of people that go to those events should play into the equation as well.

I know that WWC has a TV show as well, so that should factor in too, but I still think that WWC and ECCW should be a helluv a lot closer than they are currently. If we don't want to bump ECCW up to Regional, that's fine but then I think WWC should come down in image from 67 Regional.

That's one of the reasons I think PWS should be dropped to Regional. While they get big attendances, they hold all of their events in the same place and they've only held 3 eevnts all year, with their 4th coming up in September.

I'm gonna see if I can't get some recent info on PWG and CZW, as far as events held and attendances go, to see where I would suggest placing them.

-Bill

[Guest Team 720]

SHIMMER as cult makes perfect sense to me. Surprised to learn it's not already.

I'd also recommend leaving ECCW at small. Based on the Upcoming Events and Results pages on their website, there are a few diffferent cities there, but one is Vancouver and the others I see (Surrey, Port Coquitlam, New Westminster) are all suburbs of Vancouver.

Re ECCW: completely agree, when is the last time they headed up to St. George? I Don't really see them touring the entire Province. Secondly, the Population in BC is less than Half of the states in the US, their exposure would be similar to a promotion that toured their state of Alabama, Louisiana, or Tennessee. Hell even Puerto Rico has a population just a few hundred thousand from BC, a Puerto Rican promotion would be on the same level. "That would be assuming the promotions had events across thier state/Province" They are not a regional promotion IMO.

OK, then, here's the thing...

Currently, British Columbia has a population of a little over 4.6 million: http://www.statcan.g.../pop-bc-eng.htm

Puerto Rico's population is at just under 4 million: http://www.indexmund...cs_profile.html

WWC, whch is a Puerto Rican promotion, is at the Regional level in the game... Keep in mind that there are 2 major promotions in Puerto Rico too... IWA (which isn't in the game) and WWC...

As far as I'm aware, ECCW has no "competition" in their area... Put that all together and they should be ahead of WWC, which again is a Regional promotion with a 67 image... That's 2/3 of the way to Cult.

Another point: ECCW seems to be running AT LEAST 2 shows, if not 3 shows a month. While, IMO, travel should be a factor in determining what size a promotion is, the amount of events that they do and the number of people that go to those events should play into the equation as well.

I know that WWC has a TV show as well, so that should factor in too, but I still think that WWC and ECCW should be a helluv a lot closer than they are currently. If we don't want to bump ECCW up to Regional, that's fine but then I think WWC should come down in image from 67 Regional.

That's one of the reasons I think PWS should be dropped to Regional. While they get big attendances, they hold all of their events in the same place and they've only held 3 eevnts all year, with their 4th coming up in September.

I'm gonna see if I can't get some recent info on PWG and CZW, as far as events held and attendances go, to see where I would suggest placing them.

-Bill

From what Kris Classic has said they do anywhere from 200 for smaller shows to upwards of 1,000 for COD, Best of the Best and Tournament of Death. To me, these are outliers because they are the big three of CZW similar to the Anniversary Show, WrestleMania weekend, Best in the World, Death Before Dishonor and Final Battle are for ROH. OBVIOUSLY, the larger known events will get the attendance either due to expectations on past shows or being in larger venues. Currently CZW mainly runs shows in a hockey rink in Voorhees, NJ called "Flyer's Skate Zone" which from experience of going to shows in a hockey rink, you CAN get maybe 400/500 people on the rink to watch the shows, not including if the venue has bleachers.

PWG currently runs out of Reseda, CA besides the Kurt Russlemania series that they do in conjuncture with the Wrestle Reunion or whatever the exact convention at LAX every January is called. The venue in Reseda I believe is an American Legion as per results I found for their most recent show "Threemendious III" (source:wrestle view.)

[Bill1996]

SHIMMER as cult makes perfect sense to me. Surprised to learn it's not already.

I'd also recommend leaving ECCW at small. Based on the Upcoming Events and Results pages on their website, there are a few diffferent cities there, but one is Vancouver and the others I see (Surrey, Port Coquitlam, New Westminster) are all suburbs of Vancouver.

Re ECCW: completely agree, when is the last time they headed up to St. George? I Don't really see them touring the entire Province. Secondly, the Population in BC is less than Half of the states in the US, their exposure would be similar to a promotion that toured their state of Alabama, Louisiana, or Tennessee. Hell even Puerto Rico has a population just a few hundred thousand from BC, a Puerto Rican promotion would be on the same level. "That would be assuming the promotions had events across thier state/Province" They are not a regional promotion IMO.

OK, then, here's the thing...

Currently, British Columbia has a population of a little over 4.6 million: http://www.statcan.g.../pop-bc-eng.htm

Puerto Rico's population is at just under 4 million: http://www.indexmund...cs_profile.html

WWC, whch is a Puerto Rican promotion, is at the Regional level in the game... Keep in mind that there are 2 major promotions in Puerto Rico too... IWA (which isn't in the game) and WWC...

As far as I'm aware, ECCW has no "competition" in their area... Put that all together and they should be ahead of WWC, which again is a Regional promotion with a 67 image... That's 2/3 of the way to Cult.

Another point: ECCW seems to be running AT LEAST 2 shows, if not 3 shows a month. While, IMO, travel should be a factor in determining what size a promotion is, the amount of events that they do and the number of people that go to those events should play into the equation as well.

I know that WWC has a TV show as well, so that should factor in too, but I still think that WWC and ECCW should be a helluv a lot closer than they are currently. If we don't want to bump ECCW up to Regional, that's fine but then I think WWC should come down in image from 67 Regional.

That's one of the reasons I think PWS should be dropped to Regional. While they get big attendances, they hold all of their events in the same place and they've only held 3 eevnts all year, with their 4th coming up in September.

I'm gonna see if I can't get some recent info on PWG and CZW, as far as events held and attendances go, to see where I would suggest placing them.

-Bill

From what Kris Classic has said they do anywhere from 200 for smaller shows to upwards of 1,000 for COD, Best of the Best and Tournament of Death. To me, these are outliers because they are the big three of CZW similar to the Anniversary Show, WrestleMania weekend, Best in the World, Death Before Dishonor and Final Battle are for ROH. OBVIOUSLY, the larger known events will get the attendance either due to expectations on past shows or being in larger venues. Currently CZW mainly runs shows in a hockey rink in Voorhees, NJ called "Flyer's Skate Zone" which from experience of going to shows in a hockey rink, you CAN get maybe 400/500 people on the rink to watch the shows, not including if the venue has bleachers.

PWG currently runs out of Reseda, CA besides the Kurt Russlemania series that they do in conjuncture with the Wrestle Reunion or whatever the exact convention at LAX every January is called. The venue in Reseda I believe is an American Legion as per results I found for their most recent show "Threemendious III" (source:wrestle view.)

Well, I just checked out both of their websites and here's what I found:

This is the number of events that PWG and CZW have each put on over the last 3 years:

PWG:

2012 - 5 To Date... 1 2-Day Scheduled

2011 - 10 (1 2-Day Event)

2010 - 10 (1 2-Day Event)

CZW:

2012 - 10 To Date... 1 Scheduled

2011 - 20

2010 - 18

Just based on the number of events each put on per year and the fact that I also read some info about the PWG WrestleReunion being cancelled due to poor attendance, it's looking like PWG and CZW should AT LEAST switch spots on the chart on the front page and possibly, have CZW switch spots with DG-EVO, based on how DG-EVO and CZW compare with one another...

So, in short...

I'm thinking CZW should go to 29 Cult, dropping PWG down to 15 Cult. After that, there could be a discussion on whether or not to flip the images for DG-EVO (37) and CZW (29)...

Here's the DG-EVO event numbers for 2010-2012:

2012 - 12 To Date... 1 Scheduled (1 3-Day, 3 2-Day)

2011 - 17 (4 3-Day, 1 2-Day)

2010 - 16 (4 2-Day)

With the numbers being that close (with CZW even having a slight edge over BOTH DGUSA and EVOLVE combined) I would think that we should readjust those three promotions (CZW, DG-EVO and PWG) into the following images at the Cult level:

CZW - 37

DG-EVO - 29

PWG - 15

As always, we can continue to discuss... Just basing the changes on how many shows these promotions are promotiong, while taking the attendances into account, when possible.

-Bill

Edited August 3, 2012 by Bill1996

[Guest Team 720]

SHIMMER as cult makes perfect sense to me. Surprised to learn it's not already.

I'd also recommend leaving ECCW at small. Based on the Upcoming Events and Results pages on their website, there are a few diffferent cities there, but one is Vancouver and the others I see (Surrey, Port Coquitlam, New Westminster) are all suburbs of Vancouver.

Re ECCW: completely agree, when is the last time they headed up to St. George? I Don't really see them touring the entire Province. Secondly, the Population in BC is less than Half of the states in the US, their exposure would be similar to a promotion that toured their state of Alabama, Louisiana, or Tennessee. Hell even Puerto Rico has a population just a few hundred thousand from BC, a Puerto Rican promotion would be on the same level. "That would be assuming the promotions had events across thier state/Province" They are not a regional promotion IMO.

OK, then, here's the thing...

Currently, British Columbia has a population of a little over 4.6 million: http://www.statcan.g.../pop-bc-eng.htm

Puerto Rico's population is at just under 4 million: http://www.indexmund...cs_profile.html

WWC, whch is a Puerto Rican promotion, is at the Regional level in the game... Keep in mind that there are 2 major promotions in Puerto Rico too... IWA (which isn't in the game) and WWC...

As far as I'm aware, ECCW has no "competition" in their area... Put that all together and they should be ahead of WWC, which again is a Regional promotion with a 67 image... That's 2/3 of the way to Cult.

Another point: ECCW seems to be running AT LEAST 2 shows, if not 3 shows a month. While, IMO, travel should be a factor in determining what size a promotion is, the amount of events that they do and the number of people that go to those events should play into the equation as well.

I know that WWC has a TV show as well, so that should factor in too, but I still think that WWC and ECCW should be a helluv a lot closer than they are currently. If we don't want to bump ECCW up to Regional, that's fine but then I think WWC should come down in image from 67 Regional.

That's one of the reasons I think PWS should be dropped to Regional. While they get big attendances, they hold all of their events in the same place and they've only held 3 eevnts all year, with their 4th coming up in September.

I'm gonna see if I can't get some recent info on PWG and CZW, as far as events held and attendances go, to see where I would suggest placing them.

-Bill

From what Kris Classic has said they do anywhere from 200 for smaller shows to upwards of 1,000 for COD, Best of the Best and Tournament of Death. To me, these are outliers because they are the big three of CZW similar to the Anniversary Show, WrestleMania weekend, Best in the World, Death Before Dishonor and Final Battle are for ROH. OBVIOUSLY, the larger known events will get the attendance either due to expectations on past shows or being in larger venues. Currently CZW mainly runs shows in a hockey rink in Voorhees, NJ called "Flyer's Skate Zone" which from experience of going to shows in a hockey rink, you CAN get maybe 400/500 people on the rink to watch the shows, not including if the venue has bleachers.

PWG currently runs out of Reseda, CA besides the Kurt Russlemania series that they do in conjuncture with the Wrestle Reunion or whatever the exact convention at LAX every January is called. The venue in Reseda I believe is an American Legion as per results I found for their most recent show "Threemendious III" (source:wrestle view.)

Well, I just checked out both of their websites and here's what I found:

This is the number of events that PWG and CZW have each put on over the last 3 years:

PWG:

2012 - 5 To Date... 1 2-Day Scheduled

2011 - 10 (1 2-Day Event)

2010 - 10 (1 2-Day Event)

CZW:

2012 - 10 To Date... 1 Scheduled

2011 - 20

2010 - 18

Just based on the number of events each put on per year and the fact that I also read some info about the PWG WrestleReunion being cancelled due to poor attendance, it's looking like PWG and CZW should AT LEAST switch spots on the chart on the front page and possibly, have CZW switch spots with DG-EVO, based on how DG-EVO and CZW compare with one another...

So, in short...

I'm thinking CZW should go to 29 Cult, dropping PWG down to 15 Cult. After that, there could be a discussion on whether or not to flip the images for DG-EVO (37) and CZW (29)...

Here's the DG-EVO event numbers for 2010-2012:

2012 - 12 To Date... 1 Scheduled (1 3-Day, 3 2-Day)

2011 - 17 (4 3-Day, 1 2-Day)

2010 - 16 (4 2-Day)

With the numbers being that close (with CZW even having a slight edge over BOTH DGUSA and EVOLVE combined) I would think that we should readjust those three promotions (CZW, DG-EVO and PWG) into the following images at the Cult level:

CZW - 37

DG-EVO - 29

PWG - 15

As always, we can continue to discuss... Just basing the changes on how many shows these promotions are promotiong, while taking the attendances into account, when possible.

-Bill

I wouldn't agree with that. If you are looking at shows run by a promotion, using how many shows a promotion runs is a bad method and instead you should look at where a promotion runs. CZW has run Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware, Indiana and Ohio while DG-EVO has gone to Ontario (unsure as iHEARTdg does not list Evolve results) , California (684 attendance), Massachusetts (652 attendance for Revolt 2012), New York (600 attendance for Freedom Fight 2011), Philadelphia (700 attendance for Bushido 2011), Illinois (783 attendance for Untouchable 2011 and 712 attendance for Enter The Dragon 2012), Indiana (444 attendance for Chasing The Dragon), Wisconsin (356 attendance for Way of the Ronin 2011), Michigan (412 attendance for Untouchable 2012), Florida (352 in Hollywood and 1024/1038 for Miami), and the Carolinas (unsure as iHEARTdg does not list Evolve results) in the past 12 months alone. DG-EVO is more known than CZW to the national audience.

Source: 2011 DGUSA results on iHEARTdg.com & 2012 DGUSA results on iHEARTdg.com

PWG I think should be a high regional at this point, it is not that much of a hot bed like it use to be. For some reason, the California scene is not as hot as it once was.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Team 720

[Guest mr. potato head]

Eh, I think WWC should be bigger than ECCW (Off the top of my head I could tell you a tiny bit about WWC and nothing about ECCW, and I'm Canadian), but if you have a system you want to stick to like that, I'm not too bothered.

[Kustimonia]

NWA Anarchy

Adrian Hawkins is the new NWA Anarchy Young Lions Champion

Add The H.H.Nemesis to NWA Anarchy, reacivate Urban Assault Squad(with Shadow Jackson),make them Heels

Add the NWA Elite Stable(consisting of Jerry Palmer, John Johnson, Bo Newsom,Jacoby Boykins,Shadow Jackson, The H.H. Nemesis,Se7en, Shaun Tempers, Jagged Edge, Jeff G. Bailey).They are all Heels.

Add Jagged Edge (not in the Game, can´t provide Stats) to NWA Anarchy

Azrael & Slim J are the NWA Anarchy Tag Team Champions

Jeff G.Bailey manages Shaun Tempers, Se7en, Bo Newsom & Jacoby Boykins

Add Bobby Moore to NWA Anarchy

Bo Newsom is the NWA Anarchy Television Champ

Forgot to add:

Shaun Tempers is the NWA Anarchy Heavyweight Champ

Edited August 3, 2012 by Kustimonia

[KrisClassic]

I think how well known a promotion is should trump how many places it runs. WWC is very well known, and from what I know they draw good crowds in Puerto Rico. I would say high regional at least.

I disagree that PWG is no longer a hotbed for wrestling. I would put it at 18-22 Cult. I would put CZW around 24-28, and DG-USA to 29-34. PWS I will agree they should be regional, but high regional to compensate for the numbers they draw, around 84-88. Chikara should be around the same as DG-USA.

As of right now, NWA Force-1 hasn't run in a few months. I'll give it a month or two more, but if I don't hear anything else from them I'll assume they are done. I think WXW C4 would be a good substitute for them, though. I'll work on providing stats.

-Raise The Dynamic Sensation's brawl to 45, stiffness to 46, selling to 60, overness to 24, and charisma to 59.

-Add David Starr to the game:

David Starr

Product

February, 21

Lightweight

Image

B 65

S 63

T 66

Stiff 44

Sell 76

Over 27

Charisma 64

Att 91

Behav 87

Check SS Look and Shooting.

Heel, Cocky

4,000

Speaks

American

Roaring Elbow (Impact)

Superkick (Impact)

Loyalty to Supreme Lee Great and Samu.

Edited August 3, 2012 by KrisClassic

[Bill1996]

Well, I just checked out both of their websites and here's what I found:

This is the number of events that PWG and CZW have each put on over the last 3 years:

PWG:

2012 - 5 To Date... 1 2-Day Scheduled

2011 - 10 (1 2-Day Event)

2010 - 10 (1 2-Day Event)

CZW:

2012 - 10 To Date... 1 Scheduled

2011 - 20

2010 - 18

Just based on the number of events each put on per year and the fact that I also read some info about the PWG WrestleReunion being cancelled due to poor attendance, it's looking like PWG and CZW should AT LEAST switch spots on the chart on the front page and possibly, have CZW switch spots with DG-EVO, based on how DG-EVO and CZW compare with one another...

So, in short...

I'm thinking CZW should go to 29 Cult, dropping PWG down to 15 Cult. After that, there could be a discussion on whether or not to flip the images for DG-EVO (37) and CZW (29)...

Here's the DG-EVO event numbers for 2010-2012:

2012 - 12 To Date... 1 Scheduled (1 3-Day, 3 2-Day)

2011 - 17 (4 3-Day, 1 2-Day)

2010 - 16 (4 2-Day)

With the numbers being that close (with CZW even having a slight edge over BOTH DGUSA and EVOLVE combined) I would think that we should readjust those three promotions (CZW, DG-EVO and PWG) into the following images at the Cult level:

CZW - 37

DG-EVO - 29

PWG - 15

As always, we can continue to discuss... Just basing the changes on how many shows these promotions are promotiong, while taking the attendances into account, when possible.

-Bill

I wouldn't agree with that. If you are looking at shows run by a promotion, using how many shows a promotion runs is a bad method and instead you should look at where a promotion runs. CZW has run Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware, Indiana and Ohio while DG-EVO has gone to Ontario (unsure as iHEARTdg does not list Evolve results) , California (684 attendance), Massachusetts (652 attendance for Revolt 2012), New York (600 attendance for Freedom Fight 2011), Philadelphia (700 attendance for Bushido 2011), Illinois (783 attendance for Untouchable 2011 and 712 attendance for Enter The Dragon 2012), Indiana (444 attendance for Chasing The Dragon), Wisconsin (356 attendance for Way of the Ronin 2011), Michigan (412 attendance for Untouchable 2012), Florida (352 in Hollywood and 1024/1038 for Miami), and the Carolinas (unsure as iHEARTdg does not list Evolve results) in the past 12 months alone. DG-EVO is more known than CZW to the national audience.

Source: 2011 DGUSA results on iHEARTdg.com & 2012 DGUSA results on iHEARTdg.com

PWG I think should be a high regional at this point, it is not that much of a hot bed like it use to be. For some reason, the California scene is not as hot as it once was.

Here's what I said earlier about determining a promotion's "size":

While, IMO, travel should be a factor in determining what size a promotion is, the amount of events that they do and the number of people that go to those events should play into the equation as well.

So, in short, IMO, it should be looked at as a whole, taking those three things into consideration:

1: How many different places they run.

2: Attendance at the events.

3: How many events are run.

I don't think any one element should trump another... IMO, they should all be factored in equally.

To be honest, when I posted before, I didn't realize that DG-EVO has run in that many places... With you posting the info that you did, I would agree that DG-EVO should have a higher image than CZW.

Based on the info provided and Kris' suggestions, here's what I'm thinking about the Cult Promotions now. The bolded would be changes from the chart posted at the start of the month:

ROH: 76

CHI: 48

DG-EVO: 37

CZW: 29

SWA-SW: 24 (Shimmer Women Athletes/Shine Wrestling)

PWG: 21

PWS would move down to Regional... With 2CW being at 87 and LLUSA being at 81, should we slot PWS higher than 2CW, in between 2CW and LLUSA, or below both of them?

Seems I'm in the minority regarding WWC and ECCW, so we'll not mess with those for the time being.

Feel free to keep discussing, the bolded numbers above are just what I'm thinking, based on the info presented and Kris' suggestions.

-Bill

[Guest Team 720]

So, in short, IMO, it should be looked at as a whole, taking those three things into consideration:

1: How many different places they run.

2: Attendance at the events.

3: How many events are run.

I don't think any one element should trump another... IMO, they should all be factored in equally.

To be honest, when I posted before, I didn't realize that DG-EVO has run in that many places... With you posting the info that you did, I would agree that DG-EVO should have a higher image than CZW.

Based on the info provided and Kris' suggestions, here's what I'm thinking about the Cult Promotions now. The bolded would be changes from the chart posted at the start of the month:

ROH: 76

CHI: 48

DG-EVO: 37

CZW: 29

SWA-SW: 24 (Shimmer Women Athletes/Shine Wrestling)

PWG: 21

PWS would move down to Regional... With 2CW being at 87 and LLUSA being at 81, should we slot PWS higher than 2CW, in between 2CW and LLUSA, or below both of them?

Seems I'm in the minority regarding WWC and ECCW, so we'll not mess with those for the time being.

Feel free to keep discussing, the bolded numbers above are just what I'm thinking, based on the info presented and Kris' suggestions.

-Bill

The thing is with DGUSA/EVOLVE is the number of shows has changed due to both promotions being combined now. By this point last year, DGUSA ran 9 events under that banner and EVOLVE ran 3 events (their only showings for the year.) This year DGUSA has run 6 events and EVOLVE has run 8 events.

I honestly don't see why saying a promotion runs more often helps increase it's awareness. To me when a promotion runs 2 times a month in their home base, it does not really do anything to me. If it is like CHIKARA, ROH or DGUSA where they run double shots in two different cities, I lean on that more.In the case of PWS, they historically run one big show every three months. Which I know DGUSA does too, mainly due to the talent issues for Dragon Gate. Being that PWS only runs a handful of show but they are big shows and 2CW run one if not two shows a month and there are a number of big shows Living on the Edge mainly comes to mind, I would put them higher.

LLUSA should be lower at this point due to how inactive they have been. I would possibly put them on the shortlist of promotions to remove from the game. The stuff on hulu is a year and a half old footage that was filmed for season two (the aired shows are finally up which would be episode 8-11) and season three. They have run house shows with some constant talent but it is not like they were in 2010 or even 2011 when they aired footage. I have not heard if they will tape more footage for another season on hulu or no. I donot know the attendence for the recent LLUSA touring shows.

Starting tonight, Dragon Lee is no more and he officially become Mistico. I would rename him.

[notatardis]

I'd definitely place 2CW ahead.

I'm torn on the amount of events factor. I can see points on both sides.

[Bill1996]

So, in short, IMO, it should be looked at as a whole, taking those three things into consideration:

1: How many different places they run.

2: Attendance at the events.

3: How many events are run.

I don't think any one element should trump another... IMO, they should all be factored in equally.

To be honest, when I posted before, I didn't realize that DG-EVO has run in that many places... With you posting the info that you did, I would agree that DG-EVO should have a higher image than CZW.

Based on the info provided and Kris' suggestions, here's what I'm thinking about the Cult Promotions now. The bolded would be changes from the chart posted at the start of the month:

ROH: 76

CHI: 48

DG-EVO: 37

CZW: 29

SWA-SW: 24 (Shimmer Women Athletes/Shine Wrestling)

PWG: 21

PWS would move down to Regional... With 2CW being at 87 and LLUSA being at 81, should we slot PWS higher than 2CW, in between 2CW and LLUSA, or below both of them?

Seems I'm in the minority regarding WWC and ECCW, so we'll not mess with those for the time being.

Feel free to keep discussing, the bolded numbers above are just what I'm thinking, based on the info presented and Kris' suggestions.

-Bill

The thing is with DGUSA/EVOLVE is the number of shows has changed due to both promotions being combined now. By this point last year, DGUSA ran 9 events under that banner and EVOLVE ran 3 events (their only showings for the year.) This year DGUSA has run 6 events and EVOLVE has run 8 events.

I honestly don't see why saying a promotion runs more often helps increase it's awareness. To me when a promotion runs 2 times a month in their home base, it does not really do anything to me. If it is like CHIKARA, ROH or DGUSA where they run double shots in two different cities, I lean on that more.In the case of PWS, they historically run one big show every three months. Which I know DGUSA does too, mainly due to the talent issues for Dragon Gate. Being that PWS only runs a handful of show but they are big shows and 2CW run one if not two shows a month and there are a number of big shows Living on the Edge mainly comes to mind, I would put them higher.

LLUSA should be lower at this point due to how inactive they have been. I would possibly put them on the shortlist of promotions to remove from the game. The stuff on hulu is a year and a half old footage that was filmed for season two (the aired shows are finally up which would be episode 8-11) and season three. They have run house shows with some constant talent but it is not like they were in 2010 or even 2011 when they aired footage. I have not heard if they will tape more footage for another season on hulu or no. I donot know the attendence for the recent LLUSA touring shows.

So, you're saying that you don't think that how many shows a promotion puts on should have any bearing whatsoever on their image? Because, I wholeheartedly disagree.

Now, should it be the ONLY factor? No, but to say that the amount of shows a promotion runs shouldn't have any bearing at all, I think is very incorrect. You said yourself that LLUSA should be dropped due to their inactivity (meaning not running shows). If a promotion's image should be dropped due to not running, shouldn't it go up if they are running more than in the past?

If promotion A runs one show a month and draws 300 people, while promotion B runs 2 shows a month in the same spot and draws 150 people to each, I'd say promotion A would be the more popular (higher image) promotion. They drew 300 in one show, where it took promotion B 2 shows to get the same draw.

But, if promotion A runs one show a month and draws 300 people, while promotion B runs 2 shows a month in the same spot and draws 300 people to each, I'd have to give the edge to promotion B...

I noticed that you didn't suggest any changes to the image numbers I suggested... If you don't have a problem with the numbers, it's all a moot point, becuase in the in-game aspect, we'd agree on the "hierarchy" of the promotions.

I was also a bit confused on whee you felt PWS and 2CW should be in comparison wiht each other. Should PWS be ahead of 2CW or vice versa... Again, 2CW is currently at 87 Regional, so there's not much room above them, if we want to put PWS ahead of them.

I got that LLUSA should be lowered... How much lower...?

We have WWE at Global, TNA at National and are working on sorting out the order of the Cult promotions. Once we get that done, we can work on sorting the Regional promotions.

-Bill