EWR 2012 Stats Update: August ***PLEASE USE SPOILER TAGS***

[KrisClassic]

Does it though? Using EWB as a guide, I see a lot more talk about Shimmer than about PWG. Just because it limits itself to a certain style doesn't mean it's less popular.

It depends, where do you see more talk about it? Overall in the wrestling world I'd give a slight edge to PWG as far as brand awareness goes, as well as overall attendance figures.

-Raise Maifu's overness to 31.

-Raise Saifu's overness to 31.

-Add Bo Nekoda to the game:

Bo Nekoda

Man's Man

22

Lightweight

Image 1

Image 2

B 69

S 33

T 46

Stiff 40

Sell 75

Over 29

Charisma 68

Att 93

Behav 92

Check SS Look and Menacing.

Heel, Angry Young Man

5,000

Speaks

American

Chopsaw Elbow (Ground)

Michinoku Driver (Impact)

Add a loyalty with Supreme Lee Great and Samu.

-Add Joe Gomez to the game:

Joe Gomez

Gomez

July, 39

Heavyweight

Image

B 56

S 16

T 37

Stiff 38

Sell 64

Over 39

Charisma 63

Att 87

Behav 81

Check SS Look, Menacing, and Trainer.

9,000

Speaks

American

Tornado Slam (impact)

Spinebuster (impact)

Face, Old School Face

Edited August 4, 2012 by KrisClassic

[Guest Team 720]

Does it though? Using EWB as a guide, I see a lot more talk about Shimmer than about PWG. Just because it limits itself to a certain style doesn't mean it's less popular.

It depends, where do you see more talk about it? Overall in the wrestling world I'd give a slight edge to PWG as far as brand awareness goes, as well as overall attendance figures.

Where do you hear the buzz on PWG anymore? In 2005, there was a lot and through I would say 2008/9 there were still talked about but now, it is mainly when they have angles. The last time I really hear of PWG on wrestling news sites is through the Kurt RussleMania shows which are bigger due to the reunion it is a part of. I think SHIMMER is actually a larger promotion in name value than PWG is at this point. A majority of the main PWG talent have left for WWE, TNA or even retired in the case of Human Tornado, Scott Lost and Chris Bosh

The fact is, SHIMMER itself currently draws 200 people at their home location but I think they can draw more than 400 people if they moved to a larger venue, they are a very known as people from all over the world travel to see the shows and could very well run more than 200 people. The brand is one of the better and known in wrestling. I would put it as the highest women's promotion and possibly 5th/6th overall.

[notatardis]

As for Davey Richards, he is at the level that he is as well known as you can get for someone who is strictly indies. I would put him at 70.

Following this, I have these suggestions:

Raise Eddie Edwards overness to 68

Lower Homicide's overness to 70

Lower Jay Briscoe's overness to 69

Lower Jay Lethal's overness to 70

Lower Kevin Steen's overness to 70

Lower Mark Briscoe's overness to 69

Lower Roderick Strong's overness to 67

[notatardis]

Look no further than the current discussion over Davey Richards' overness... The guy is at 74 over currently and I've seen damn near a page of posts debating what would, at most, result in a 4 point drop to 70... IMO, it's a bit ridiculous, especially when we just did an overness tree that everyone had the chance to weigh in on last month.

-Bill

To be fair, it's more about the future mechanics of the game than the overness itself. That'll go a long way for stability in the future. Also, I didn't have enough time last month to really work with the overness bit, but as I said in whatever post, I thought everyone was getting a -5 off their overness. With that not the case, I can toss out some numbers now, and just did.

[notatardis]

Add Mike Sydal to ROH with his current info listed in the first slot, open contract.

[KrisClassic]

Does it though? Using EWB as a guide, I see a lot more talk about Shimmer than about PWG. Just because it limits itself to a certain style doesn't mean it's less popular.

It depends, where do you see more talk about it? Overall in the wrestling world I'd give a slight edge to PWG as far as brand awareness goes, as well as overall attendance figures.

Where do you hear the buzz on PWG anymore? In 2005, there was a lot and through I would say 2008/9 there were still talked about but now, it is mainly when they have angles. The last time I really hear of PWG on wrestling news sites is through the Kurt RussleMania shows which are bigger due to the reunion it is a part of. I think SHIMMER is actually a larger promotion in name value than PWG is at this point. A majority of the main PWG talent have left for WWE, TNA or even retired in the case of Human Tornado, Scott Lost and Chris Bosh

The fact is, SHIMMER itself currently draws 200 people at their home location but I think they can draw more than 400 people if they moved to a larger venue, they are a very known as people from all over the world travel to see the shows and could very well run more than 200 people. The brand is one of the better and known in wrestling. I would put it as the highest women's promotion and possibly 5th/6th overall.

That last part is completely speculation. As for PWG, I hear about them a lot on various wrestling forums. Are they having the same buzz as a few years back? No, but I'd still say a bit more than Shimmer is, not to mention, regardless of building size or anything like that, they are in fact drawing more fans. Would Shimmer draw more if they moved to a bigger building? Maybe. But maybe they'd draw the exact same amount, too.

As for Davey Richards, he is at the level that he is as well known as you can get for someone who is strictly indies. I would put him at 70.

Following this, I have these suggestions:

Raise Eddie Edwards overness to 68

Lower Homicide's overness to 70

Lower Jay Briscoe's overness to 69

Lower Jay Lethal's overness to 70

Lower Kevin Steen's overness to 70

Lower Mark Briscoe's overness to 69

Lower Roderick Strong's overness to 67

Agree with all except Homicide's. He has a lot of fame from his work in TNA, I would put him at 73.

-Add Shawn Credle to the game:

Shawn Credle

Credle

January, 38

Lightweight

Image

B 16

S 0

T 5

Stiff 27

Sell 61

Over 27

Charisma 78

Att 92

Behav 90

Check Announcer and Booker.

Manager, Heel, The Brain.

7,000

Speaks

American

Cheap Shot (Impact)

Choke (Submission)

Edited August 4, 2012 by KrisClassic

[notatardis]

Does it though? Using EWB as a guide, I see a lot more talk about Shimmer than about PWG. Just because it limits itself to a certain style doesn't mean it's less popular.

It depends, where do you see more talk about it? Overall in the wrestling world I'd give a slight edge to PWG as far as brand awareness goes, as well as overall attendance figures.

Where do you hear the buzz on PWG anymore? In 2005, there was a lot and through I would say 2008/9 there were still talked about but now, it is mainly when they have angles. The last time I really hear of PWG on wrestling news sites is through the Kurt RussleMania shows which are bigger due to the reunion it is a part of. I think SHIMMER is actually a larger promotion in name value than PWG is at this point. A majority of the main PWG talent have left for WWE, TNA or even retired in the case of Human Tornado, Scott Lost and Chris Bosh

The fact is, SHIMMER itself currently draws 200 people at their home location but I think they can draw more than 400 people if they moved to a larger venue, they are a very known as people from all over the world travel to see the shows and could very well run more than 200 people. The brand is one of the better and known in wrestling. I would put it as the highest women's promotion and possibly 5th/6th overall.

That last part is completely speculation. As for PWG, I hear about them a lot on various wrestling forums. Are they having the same buzz as a few years back? No, but I'd still say a bit more than Shimmer is, not to mention, regardless of building size or anything like that, they are in fact drawing more fans. Would Shimmer draw more if they moved to a bigger building? Maybe. But maybe they'd draw the exact same amount, too.

As for Davey Richards, he is at the level that he is as well known as you can get for someone who is strictly indies. I would put him at 70.

Following this, I have these suggestions:

Raise Eddie Edwards overness to 68

Lower Homicide's overness to 70

Lower Jay Briscoe's overness to 69

Lower Jay Lethal's overness to 70

Lower Kevin Steen's overness to 70

Lower Mark Briscoe's overness to 69

Lower Roderick Strong's overness to 67

Agree with all except Homicide's. He has a lot of fame from his work in TNA, I would put him at 73.

Works for me, I was on the fence about him.

With Shimmer and PWG, I think maybe they are pretty much at the exact same level, just different appeal if that make sense. Different but equal.

[Bill1996]

That last part is completely speculation. As for PWG, I hear about them a lot on various wrestling forums. Are they having the same buzz as a few years back? No, but I'd still say a bit more than Shimmer is, not to mention, regardless of building size or anything like that, they are in fact drawing more fans. Would Shimmer draw more if they moved to a bigger building? Maybe. But maybe they'd draw the exact same amount, too.

Just out of curiosity, where are you getting current or recent attendance figures for PWG? Reason I ask is, you said that PWG is drawing more, but I haven't been ble to find any recent attendance figures for them (and by recent, I mean 2010-2012)... In fact, the only thing that I've found regarding attendance in 2012 was that they were cancelling WrestleReunion and scaling back events, due to low attendances: http://www.wrestlereunion.com/wrestlereunion-update-la-and-more/

Unfortunately, 2012 in Los Angeles saw a dramatic decline in our attendance from the previous year and made the idea of returning there extremely unlikely. We felt it was in our best interest to get through our next two events before making any longer term decisions, as the success of those two cities would likely play a role in our decision making. Quite simply, Toronto sales didn’t meet our expectations. Despite nearly one year of advance notice and having lots of local promoters and media helping to publicize the event, we didn’t reach enough people interested in our product.

Some of the Admin comments after the article are telling as well:

Admin Comments:First Year, Second Year, Third Year they all were a loss. We gave it three years to build a loyal following we did that just not one big enough. At this time there is no point speculating when and if I plan another event it will be announced until then the answer is the same no events planned at this time.

The three years he's referring to, I have to assume were 2010, 2011 and 2012... The last WrestleReunion before those was 2005, which Wikipedia states had an attendance of 550... So, I have to assume, the past three years, the attendance was significantly below 550.

Admin Comments – We’re not trying to run an ROH type of event where we ask you to show up at 7pm and leave at 11pm. Chris, maybe we’re wrong, but if people don’t want to travel a little bit for this type of event, obviously we don’t have enough people interested in our product.

Finally, you're comparing PWG to Shimmer, when really, in the game, we're comparing PWG to Shimmer and Shine combined. I'm not sure how many people The Orpheum (where the Shine iPPV's are being run) holds, but I do know that Lenny Leonard, who does commentary for DGUSA, EVOLVE and Shine, said that there were more people in attendance for Shine than there were in the same arena for the last EVOLVE show.

Again, not trying to argue, just posting what info I found.

-Bill

[arwrestling]

I would personally put Shimmer above PWG. I think Bill makes some strong arguments there...

Also I don't remember what level they are at in the game, but I would suggest that WSU is put in the high (about 65-75 PI) Regional range. They've picked up quite a bit of steam in the last year or two and with iPPV are reaching a much bigger audience than ever.

[Guest Team 720]

That last part is completely speculation. As for PWG, I hear about them a lot on various wrestling forums. Are they having the same buzz as a few years back? No, but I'd still say a bit more than Shimmer is, not to mention, regardless of building size or anything like that, they are in fact drawing more fans. Would Shimmer draw more if they moved to a bigger building? Maybe. But maybe they'd draw the exact same amount, too.

Just out of curiosity, where are you getting current or recent attendance figures for PWG? Reason I ask is, you said that PWG is drawing more, but I haven't been ble to find any recent attendance figures for them (and by recent, I mean 2010-2012)... In fact, the only thing that I've found regarding attendance in 2012 was that they were cancelling WrestleReunion and scaling back events, due to low attendances: http://www.wrestlere...te-la-and-more/

Unfortunately, 2012 in Los Angeles saw a dramatic decline in our attendance from the previous year and made the idea of returning there extremely unlikely. We felt it was in our best interest to get through our next two events before making any longer term decisions, as the success of those two cities would likely play a role in our decision making. Quite simply, Toronto sales didn't meet our expectations. Despite nearly one year of advance notice and having lots of local promoters and media helping to publicize the event, we didn't reach enough people interested in our product.

Some of the Admin comments after the article are telling as well:

Admin Comments:First Year, Second Year, Third Year they all were a loss. We gave it three years to build a loyal following we did that just not one big enough. At this time there is no point speculating when and if I plan another event it will be announced until then the answer is the same no events planned at this time.

The three years he's referring to, I have to assume were 2010, 2011 and 2012... The last WrestleReunion before those was 2005, which Wikipedia states had an attendance of 550... So, I have to assume, the past three years, the attendance was significantly below 550.

Admin Comments – We're not trying to run an ROH type of event where we ask you to show up at 7pm and leave at 11pm. Chris, maybe we're wrong, but if people don't want to travel a little bit for this type of event, obviously we don't have enough people interested in our product.

Finally, you're comparing PWG to Shimmer, when really, in the game, we're comparing PWG to Shimmer and Shine combined. I'm not sure how many people The Orpheum (where the Shine iPPV's are being run) holds, but I do know that Lenny Leonard, who does commentary for DGUSA, EVOLVE and Shine, said that there were more people in attendance for Shine than there were in the same arena for the last EVOLVE show.

Again, not trying to argue, just posting what info I found.

-Bill

I am not sure what to make of SHIMMER and Shine being two promotions that are different that offer a similar product and are sister promotions but I don't think there is the crossover between DGUSA and EVOLVE. I think it is more like the early days of EVOLVE and DGUSA where they had different storylines with the same base talent or FIP and ROH (until 2008) where there was some cross over but not they are treated entirely different (See CM Punk being face in ROH while leading the New Dawn in FIP as a heel, Homicide as a heel in ROH but being face in FIP or Bryan Danielson being a quasi-heel in ROH but a full-on heel in FIP.)

You said it yourself Bill Shine Wrestling runs every month while SHIMMER only does two double cards during the year (maybe 3 next year with the Mania weekend.) It seems like there is some overlap in talent but from my estimation besides Sara Del Ray, Nikki Roxx and Mercedes Martinez , there is no stars from SHIMMER in Shine. As of the June update, only Allysin Kay, Cherry Bomb, Christina Von Eerie, Leva Bates, Martinez, Roxx, Su Yung Taylor Made and Veda Scott overlap which all but Martinez and Roxx are not really stars in SHIMMER. (NOTE: Kay, Bomb, Martinez, Roxx, Scott are maxed out on promotions.)

I would say to me they look different enough to be two separate promotions. Space wie I see it but the roster would still have cuts in the game due to the size even as a cult. Not saying that is a be-all, end-all.

[MaSc]

But the WWE has more, a lot more of an audience. That is the way the game works, from the game's own FAQ and mechanics. Yeah "experts" know of him and how good he is, but they make up a very small segment of the wrestling fan population. I run an American Football board, with people who watch wrestling. I think maybe 2 or 3 of them know of Richards. You know what they talk about more? The WWE. Because that's what wrestling fans at large know. We're a small special population, hardly indicative of the wrestling fan population at large.

I don't care about who buys a ticket to see who or whatever, overness doesn't measure that. It measures how well a wrestler is known, and if you polled all wrestling fans, they would know who Heath Slater was more often than Richards.

You can posit all the ifs and buts about if their situations were reversed, but they aren't. Pretty sure Claudio's been doing the same thing, as most other heels, and not all reactions are the same. Slater may be another WWE guy, but those guys, they're pretty well known. If you talk about overness being a worker in his role, which it is, to an extent, then Davey can be a 67 and still be a Main Eventer at the Cult Promotion level, which is exactly what he is.

And here is the Problem. You say "Overness" means how many People knows Heat Slater. I say Overness ist how People reacts to a Wrestler. And you say Overness does not mean a wrestler "sold tickets"? For me this is a big factor in the Overness Value.

How many "casual" fans know the WWE Guys that are used almost only for superstars and live events? Not as many as you might think! WWE has more audience no doubt. That does not mean that the casual fans know the worker from the Undercard

Yeah...Richards could Main Event a cult promotion with 67. But Slater wouldn't headline any show for ROH. Slater wouldn't headline any Show in Japan. He would be just a guy known from WWE.

And the game says fuck your definition of overness. As already explained the game determines overness by how well known the worker is. It is ludicrous to argue that a guy who has never been on national tv in any prominent role is as over or more over (which the game determines as who is more well-known) than someone who is on televisions world wide. Remember, Raw is broadcast on stations in many countries, not just America.

You don't get it. A lot of the WWE Guys in the Undercard you never see at RAW or SmackDown. Bateman, Curtis, JTG, Reks, Hawkins, Beretta, Riley, Camacho, Hunico, McIntyre, Jackson, Usos, Mahal, Gabriel, Ryan, McGillicutty, Tatsu and, besides the Legend-Angle, Heath Slater....all these guys are mostly used only for Superstars and NXT. NXT and Superstars runs on the Internet not on national tv. In many Countries you can't see these shows at all. In many countries you can not even see the complete RAW and Smackdown Shows. And if these guys are sometimes used on Smackdown or RAW then as jobbers. (And guess what ... you can see the ROH Weekly free on the ROH website worldwide! And hey...you can't see Superstars (legally) worldwide on the Internet) So you argue that these people are known worldwide even though they are NOT on worldwide television...although they're not even on national TV? Just because they are on wwe.com roster page?

And what says the Game really about overness?

Over: This is how much the crowd react to a worker. 0 means the person is totally unknown, 100 means a worker is known worldwide (such as The Rock). Generally wrestlers below 10 will be working for backyard federations, wrestlers around 60 will be working for Cult promotions, and workers over 80 will be working for Global promotions.

So if you want the game more realistic then lower also the overness of the WWE and TNA Under Carder

Edited August 4, 2012 by MaSc

[Guest Team 720]

But the WWE has more, a lot more of an audience. That is the way the game works, from the game's own FAQ and mechanics. Yeah "experts" know of him and how good he is, but they make up a very small segment of the wrestling fan population. I run an American Football board, with people who watch wrestling. I think maybe 2 or 3 of them know of Richards. You know what they talk about more? The WWE. Because that's what wrestling fans at large know. We're a small special population, hardly indicative of the wrestling fan population at large.

I don't care about who buys a ticket to see who or whatever, overness doesn't measure that. It measures how well a wrestler is known, and if you polled all wrestling fans, they would know who Heath Slater was more often than Richards.

You can posit all the ifs and buts about if their situations were reversed, but they aren't. Pretty sure Claudio's been doing the same thing, as most other heels, and not all reactions are the same. Slater may be another WWE guy, but those guys, they're pretty well known. If you talk about overness being a worker in his role, which it is, to an extent, then Davey can be a 67 and still be a Main Eventer at the Cult Promotion level, which is exactly what he is.

And here is the Problem. You say "Overness" means how many People knows Heat Slater. I say Overness ist how People reacts to a Wrestler. And you say Overness does not mean a wrestler "sold tickets"? For me this is a big factor in the Overness Value.

How many "casual" fans know the WWE Guys that are used almost only for superstars and live events? Not as many as you might think! WWE has more audience no doubt. That does not mean that the casual fans know the worker from the Undercard

Yeah...Richards could Main Event a cult promotion with 67. But Slater wouldn't headline any show for ROH. Slater wouldn't headline any Show in Japan. He would be just a guy known from WWE.

And the game says fuck your definition of overness. As already explained the game determines overness by how well known the worker is. It is ludicrous to argue that a guy who has never been on national tv in any prominent role is as over or more over (which the game determines as who is more well-known) than someone who is on televisions world wide. Remember, Raw is broadcast on stations in many countries, not just America.

You don't get it. A lot of the WWE Guys in the Undercard you never see at RAW or SmackDown. Bateman, Curtis, JTG, Reks, Hawkins, Beretta, Riley, Camacho, Hunico, McIntyre, Jackson, Usos, Mahal, Gabriel, Ryan, McGillicutty, Tatsu and, besides the Legend-Angle, Heath Slater....all these people are mostly used only for Superstars and NXT. NXT and Superstars runs on the Internet not on national tv. In many Countries you can't see these shows at all. In many countries you can not even see the complete RAW and Smackdown Shows. And if these guys are sometimes used on Smackdown or RAW then as jobbers. (And guess what ... you can see the ROH Weekly free on the ROH website worldwide! And hey...you can't see Superstars worldwide on the Internet) So you argue that these people are known worldwide even though they are NOT in the worldwide television...although they're not even on national TV? Just because they are on wwe.com at the roster page?

And what says the Game really about overness?

Over: This is how much the crowd react to a worker. 0 means the person is totally unknown, 100 means a worker is known worldwide (such as The Rock). Generally wrestlers below 10 will be working for backyard federations, wrestlers around 60 will be working for Cult promotions, and workers over 80 will be working for Global promotions.

Perhaps you should read better!

Yeah, cause we all know ROH has more online fans watching content than WWE does... WWE has Superstar on the Internet which shows those guys unless they are being fed to the Tensais and Rybacks of the world. I see the WWE audience as the be all end all because you have a mix of die-hards and then the typical WWE audience. At Money in the Bank, there were chants for D-Bry, Punk, Cena, Jericho, Ziggler and the other usual suspects. Now you throw an ROH guy in there, they MAY get a reaction if he is from the hometown but not much more.

As for the hot 200 through maybe 1,000+ fans that react for a guy in ROH, WOULD THEY get that in a WWE or even to a lesser extent TNA, no. They are over on the indies in maybe a few promotions but not on the same scale. Yes, I made jokes about the team of Epico and Primo getting a pop mainly off of Rosa at Money in the Bank, but the fact is they at least get something. Throw a Davey Richards in WWE and see how many cheers he'd get on his debut if he was used like another recent main streamed talent. Hell look at Kaval, he is over like a mfer on the indies, but in WWE he was not getting enough to warrant a 66.

On a side note, Derrick Bateman, Johnny Curtis and I THINK McGillicutty are full-time in developmental now.

[notatardis]

But the WWE has more, a lot more of an audience. That is the way the game works, from the game's own FAQ and mechanics. Yeah "experts" know of him and how good he is, but they make up a very small segment of the wrestling fan population. I run an American Football board, with people who watch wrestling. I think maybe 2 or 3 of them know of Richards. You know what they talk about more? The WWE. Because that's what wrestling fans at large know. We're a small special population, hardly indicative of the wrestling fan population at large.

I don't care about who buys a ticket to see who or whatever, overness doesn't measure that. It measures how well a wrestler is known, and if you polled all wrestling fans, they would know who Heath Slater was more often than Richards.

You can posit all the ifs and buts about if their situations were reversed, but they aren't. Pretty sure Claudio's been doing the same thing, as most other heels, and not all reactions are the same. Slater may be another WWE guy, but those guys, they're pretty well known. If you talk about overness being a worker in his role, which it is, to an extent, then Davey can be a 67 and still be a Main Eventer at the Cult Promotion level, which is exactly what he is.

And here is the Problem. You say "Overness" means how many People knows Heat Slater. I say Overness ist how People reacts to a Wrestler. And you say Overness does not mean a wrestler "sold tickets"? For me this is a big factor in the Overness Value.

How many "casual" fans know the WWE Guys that are used almost only for superstars and live events? Not as many as you might think! WWE has more audience no doubt. That does not mean that the casual fans know the worker from the Undercard

Yeah...Richards could Main Event a cult promotion with 67. But Slater wouldn't headline any show for ROH. Slater wouldn't headline any Show in Japan. He would be just a guy known from WWE.

And the game says fuck your definition of overness. As already explained the game determines overness by how well known the worker is. It is ludicrous to argue that a guy who has never been on national tv in any prominent role is as over or more over (which the game determines as who is more well-known) than someone who is on televisions world wide. Remember, Raw is broadcast on stations in many countries, not just America.

You don't get it. A lot of the WWE Guys in the Undercard you never see at RAW or SmackDown. Bateman, Curtis, JTG, Reks, Hawkins, Beretta, Riley, Camacho, Hunico, McIntyre, Jackson, Usos, Mahal, Gabriel, Ryan, McGillicutty, Tatsu and, besides the Legend-Angle, Heath Slater....all these guys are mostly used only for Superstars and NXT. NXT and Superstars runs on the Internet not on national tv. In many Countries you can't see these shows at all. In many countries you can not even see the complete RAW and Smackdown Shows. And if these guys are sometimes used on Smackdown or RAW then as jobbers. (And guess what ... you can see the ROH Weekly free on the ROH website worldwide! And hey...you can't see Superstars (legally) worldwide on the Internet) So you argue that these people are known worldwide even though they are NOT on worldwide television...although they're not even on national TV? Just because they are on wwe.com roster page?

And what says the Game really about overness?

Over: This is how much the crowd react to a worker. 0 means the person is totally unknown, 100 means a worker is known worldwide (such as The Rock). Generally wrestlers below 10 will be working for backyard federations, wrestlers around 60 will be working for Cult promotions, and workers over 80 will be working for Global promotions.

So if you want the game more realistic then lower also the overness of the WWE and TNA Under Carder

Good thing you edited what you originally said since your reading comprehension would be seen as suspect at best. You pointed out one small part of the whole thing, one that I originally posted. Read right after that. And then the sentence after that. It's clear it's basing it on a large crowd. Again the game works on one scale, that scale being set to the WWE. We know that some guys in the E would get less reactions than some guys in the indies if they are both in the indies, and that the reactions would be reversed if they were both in the E. We can't account for that, there's no ability to parse overness for what a wrestler would be at different companies. Therefore, following the game's mechanics, we work off of that one scale, which is set to the E. It's unfortunate all we have is a linear scale, but that's what it is. You want to argue some of the lower carders are perhaps well known, that's fine. I can see it. But in the case of specifically Heath Slater and Ryback, who I started my comparison with, it's not so.

[Darnez FC Forever]

But the WWE has more, a lot more of an audience. That is the way the game works, from the game's own FAQ and mechanics. Yeah "experts" know of him and how good he is, but they make up a very small segment of the wrestling fan population. I run an American Football board, with people who watch wrestling. I think maybe 2 or 3 of them know of Richards. You know what they talk about more? The WWE. Because that's what wrestling fans at large know. We're a small special population, hardly indicative of the wrestling fan population at large.

I don't care about who buys a ticket to see who or whatever, overness doesn't measure that. It measures how well a wrestler is known, and if you polled all wrestling fans, they would know who Heath Slater was more often than Richards.

You can posit all the ifs and buts about if their situations were reversed, but they aren't. Pretty sure Claudio's been doing the same thing, as most other heels, and not all reactions are the same. Slater may be another WWE guy, but those guys, they're pretty well known. If you talk about overness being a worker in his role, which it is, to an extent, then Davey can be a 67 and still be a Main Eventer at the Cult Promotion level, which is exactly what he is.

And here is the Problem. You say "Overness" means how many People knows Heat Slater. I say Overness ist how People reacts to a Wrestler. And you say Overness does not mean a wrestler "sold tickets"? For me this is a big factor in the Overness Value.

How many "casual" fans know the WWE Guys that are used almost only for superstars and live events? Not as many as you might think! WWE has more audience no doubt. That does not mean that the casual fans know the worker from the Undercard

Yeah...Richards could Main Event a cult promotion with 67. But Slater wouldn't headline any show for ROH. Slater wouldn't headline any Show in Japan. He would be just a guy known from WWE.

And the game says fuck your definition of overness. As already explained the game determines overness by how well known the worker is. It is ludicrous to argue that a guy who has never been on national tv in any prominent role is as over or more over (which the game determines as who is more well-known) than someone who is on televisions world wide. Remember, Raw is broadcast on stations in many countries, not just America.

You don't get it. A lot of the WWE Guys in the Undercard you never see at RAW or SmackDown. Bateman, Curtis, JTG, Reks, Hawkins, Beretta, Riley, Camacho, Hunico, McIntyre, Jackson, Usos, Mahal, Gabriel, Ryan, McGillicutty, Tatsu and, besides the Legend-Angle, Heath Slater....all these guys are mostly used only for Superstars and NXT. NXT and Superstars runs on the Internet not on national tv. In many Countries you can't see these shows at all. In many countries you can not even see the complete RAW and Smackdown Shows. And if these guys are sometimes used on Smackdown or RAW then as jobbers. (And guess what ... you can see the ROH Weekly free on the ROH website worldwide! And hey...you can't see Superstars (legally) worldwide on the Internet) So you argue that these people are known worldwide even though they are NOT on worldwide television...although they're not even on national TV? Just because they are on wwe.com roster page?

And what says the Game really about overness?

Over: This is how much the crowd react to a worker. 0 means the person is totally unknown, 100 means a worker is known worldwide (such as The Rock). Generally wrestlers below 10 will be working for backyard federations, wrestlers around 60 will be working for Cult promotions, and workers over 80 will be working for Global promotions.

So if you want the game more realistic then lower also the overness of the WWE and TNA Under Carder

If the way overness in EWR works bothers you so much you should just play TEW.

[KrisClassic]

WrestleReunion isn't necessarily the same thing as PWG. From what I am aware, WrestleReunion is an event which acts as a gathering of several promotions. As for PWG attendance figures, from seeing videos I would estimate them to be 300-500ish.

-Add Sgt. RJR to the game:

Sgt. RJR

RJR

30

Heavyweight

Image

B 50

S 19

T 57

Stiff 48

Sell 71

Over 25

Charisma 69

Att 92

Behav 92

Check Menacing, Trainer.

Face, Armed Forces

5,000

Speaks

American

Full Nelson Faceplant (Impact)

STO (Impact)

Alter egos: RJR, Rick Jimbo Radical

Add a loyalty with Samu and Supreme Lee Great.

Add a tag team with Mikey Valentino, The Privates, 20 exp.

-Add The Mastodon to the game:

The Mastodon

Mastodon

March, 29

Heavyweight

Image

B 62

S 8

T 29

Stiff 48

Sell 66

Over 25

Charisma 63

Att 95

Behav 89

Check Menacing, Booker.

Heel, Enforcer.

5,000

Speaks

American

Designated Driver (impact)

Designated Driver (impact)

Loyalty to Samu, Supreme Lee Great, friendship with David Starr and The Dynamic Sensation.

-Add AC Anderson to the game:

AC Anderson

Anderson

October, 28

Heavyweight

Image

B 63

S 19

T 34

Stiff 47

Sell 62

Over 34

Charisma 62

Att 86

Behav 87

Check Menacing.

Face, Bad Ass.

6,000

Speaks

American

Spinebuster (Impact)

Powerslam (Impact)

Loyalty to Zuffa (who needs to be renamed to Havoc) and Samu.

Add a tag team, South Side Terminators, AC Anderson and Havoc, 30 exp.

-Raise Billy Dream's selling to 63 and overness to 28.

-Rename Zuffa to Havoc. Make him a heavyweight. Check Menacing and Trainer. Change his image to this. Raise his brawl to 66, selling to 63, and overness to 34. Lower his speed to 39. Remove his touring commitment with Zero One. Make his gimmick Bad Ass. Raise his wages to 7,000.

-Lower Tommy Suede's stiffness to 71. Change his short name to Smooth. Lower his wages to 18,000.

-Change Dirty Rotten Scoundrelz's finisher to the Double Piledriver.

-Add a tag team of Afa Jr. and Samu, 20 exp.

Edited August 5, 2012 by KrisClassic

[MaSc]

But the WWE has more, a lot more of an audience. That is the way the game works, from the game's own FAQ and mechanics. Yeah "experts" know of him and how good he is, but they make up a very small segment of the wrestling fan population. I run an American Football board, with people who watch wrestling. I think maybe 2 or 3 of them know of Richards. You know what they talk about more? The WWE. Because that's what wrestling fans at large know. We're a small special population, hardly indicative of the wrestling fan population at large.

I don't care about who buys a ticket to see who or whatever, overness doesn't measure that. It measures how well a wrestler is known, and if you polled all wrestling fans, they would know who Heath Slater was more often than Richards.

You can posit all the ifs and buts about if their situations were reversed, but they aren't. Pretty sure Claudio's been doing the same thing, as most other heels, and not all reactions are the same. Slater may be another WWE guy, but those guys, they're pretty well known. If you talk about overness being a worker in his role, which it is, to an extent, then Davey can be a 67 and still be a Main Eventer at the Cult Promotion level, which is exactly what he is.

And here is the Problem. You say "Overness" means how many People knows Heat Slater. I say Overness ist how People reacts to a Wrestler. And you say Overness does not mean a wrestler "sold tickets"? For me this is a big factor in the Overness Value.

How many "casual" fans know the WWE Guys that are used almost only for superstars and live events? Not as many as you might think! WWE has more audience no doubt. That does not mean that the casual fans know the worker from the Undercard

Yeah...Richards could Main Event a cult promotion with 67. But Slater wouldn't headline any show for ROH. Slater wouldn't headline any Show in Japan. He would be just a guy known from WWE.

And the game says fuck your definition of overness. As already explained the game determines overness by how well known the worker is. It is ludicrous to argue that a guy who has never been on national tv in any prominent role is as over or more over (which the game determines as who is more well-known) than someone who is on televisions world wide. Remember, Raw is broadcast on stations in many countries, not just America.

You don't get it. A lot of the WWE Guys in the Undercard you never see at RAW or SmackDown. Bateman, Curtis, JTG, Reks, Hawkins, Beretta, Riley, Camacho, Hunico, McIntyre, Jackson, Usos, Mahal, Gabriel, Ryan, McGillicutty, Tatsu and, besides the Legend-Angle, Heath Slater....all these people are mostly used only for Superstars and NXT. NXT and Superstars runs on the Internet not on national tv. In many Countries you can't see these shows at all. In many countries you can not even see the complete RAW and Smackdown Shows. And if these guys are sometimes used on Smackdown or RAW then as jobbers. (And guess what ... you can see the ROH Weekly free on the ROH website worldwide! And hey...you can't see Superstars worldwide on the Internet) So you argue that these people are known worldwide even though they are NOT in the worldwide television...although they're not even on national TV? Just because they are on wwe.com at the roster page?

And what says the Game really about overness?

Over: This is how much the crowd react to a worker. 0 means the person is totally unknown, 100 means a worker is known worldwide (such as The Rock). Generally wrestlers below 10 will be working for backyard federations, wrestlers around 60 will be working for Cult promotions, and workers over 80 will be working for Global promotions.

Perhaps you should read better!

Yeah, cause we all know ROH has more online fans watching content than WWE does... WWE has Superstar on the Internet which shows those guys unless they are being fed to the Tensais and Rybacks of the world. I see the WWE audience as the be all end all because you have a mix of die-hards and then the typical WWE audience. At Money in the Bank, there were chants for D-Bry, Punk, Cena, Jericho, Ziggler and the other usual suspects. Now you throw an ROH guy in there, they MAY get a reaction if he is from the hometown but not much more.

As for the hot 200 through maybe 1,000+ fans that react for a guy in ROH, WOULD THEY get that in a WWE or even to a lesser extent TNA, no. They are over on the indies in maybe a few promotions but not on the same scale. Yes, I made jokes about the team of Epico and Primo getting a pop mainly off of Rosa at Money in the Bank, but the fact is they at least get something. Throw a Davey Richards in WWE and see how many cheers he'd get on his debut if he was used like another recent main streamed talent. Hell look at Kaval, he is over like a mfer on the indies, but in WWE he was not getting enough to warrant a 66.

On a side note, Derrick Bateman, Johnny Curtis and I THINK McGillicutty are full-time in developmental now.

The most of these "die hard" fans would know who are the Top Guys in the Independent Circus. Because they are Wrestlingfans and not "only" WWE Fans. You know where the "Yes" chants started? And who then carried them into the WWE shows? The crowd at WWE PPVs is often completely different than at a "normal" WWE show. I think that you should have already noticed. (And as for non PPV Shows..apart from RAW, WWE edited the crowd reactions before broadcast.)

Did you see Kenny King's TNA debut and the reactions he get? And King was nothing as a Midcarder in ROH. The same with Jigsaw.

Edited August 5, 2012 by MaSc

[Guest Team 720]

-Rename Zuffa to Havoc. Make him a heavyweight. Check Menacing and Trainer. Change his image to this. Raise his brawl to 66, selling to 63, and overness to 34. Lower his speed to 39. Remove his touring commitment with Zero One. Make his gimmick Bad Ass. Raise his wages to 7,000.

There is are three other Havocs in the game (all with promotions in the name.) I named him Zuffa as per Bill's rule regarding the multiple names (Plus WXW is not and still not in the game.)

On a side note, still wondering why Brutus Magnus was renamed Magnus and not Magnus CMLL. As far as I know, CMLL's Magnus has only worked under Astro Boy II (which the modern day Astro Boy and now named Argos went by) while Brutus Magnus has several other alter ego entries.

But the WWE has more, a lot more of an audience. That is the way the game works, from the game's own FAQ and mechanics. Yeah "experts" know of him and how good he is, but they make up a very small segment of the wrestling fan population. I run an American Football board, with people who watch wrestling. I think maybe 2 or 3 of them know of Richards. You know what they talk about more? The WWE. Because that's what wrestling fans at large know. We're a small special population, hardly indicative of the wrestling fan population at large.

I don't care about who buys a ticket to see who or whatever, overness doesn't measure that. It measures how well a wrestler is known, and if you polled all wrestling fans, they would know who Heath Slater was more often than Richards.

You can posit all the ifs and buts about if their situations were reversed, but they aren't. Pretty sure Claudio's been doing the same thing, as most other heels, and not all reactions are the same. Slater may be another WWE guy, but those guys, they're pretty well known. If you talk about overness being a worker in his role, which it is, to an extent, then Davey can be a 67 and still be a Main Eventer at the Cult Promotion level, which is exactly what he is.

And here is the Problem. You say "Overness" means how many People knows Heat Slater. I say Overness ist how People reacts to a Wrestler. And you say Overness does not mean a wrestler "sold tickets"? For me this is a big factor in the Overness Value.

How many "casual" fans know the WWE Guys that are used almost only for superstars and live events? Not as many as you might think! WWE has more audience no doubt. That does not mean that the casual fans know the worker from the Undercard

Yeah...Richards could Main Event a cult promotion with 67. But Slater wouldn't headline any show for ROH. Slater wouldn't headline any Show in Japan. He would be just a guy known from WWE.

And the game says fuck your definition of overness. As already explained the game determines overness by how well known the worker is. It is ludicrous to argue that a guy who has never been on national tv in any prominent role is as over or more over (which the game determines as who is more well-known) than someone who is on televisions world wide. Remember, Raw is broadcast on stations in many countries, not just America.

You don't get it. A lot of the WWE Guys in the Undercard you never see at RAW or SmackDown. Bateman, Curtis, JTG, Reks, Hawkins, Beretta, Riley, Camacho, Hunico, McIntyre, Jackson, Usos, Mahal, Gabriel, Ryan, McGillicutty, Tatsu and, besides the Legend-Angle, Heath Slater....all these people are mostly used only for Superstars and NXT. NXT and Superstars runs on the Internet not on national tv. In many Countries you can't see these shows at all. In many countries you can not even see the complete RAW and Smackdown Shows. And if these guys are sometimes used on Smackdown or RAW then as jobbers. (And guess what ... you can see the ROH Weekly free on the ROH website worldwide! And hey...you can't see Superstars worldwide on the Internet) So you argue that these people are known worldwide even though they are NOT in the worldwide television...although they're not even on national TV? Just because they are on wwe.com at the roster page?

And what says the Game really about overness?

Over: This is how much the crowd react to a worker. 0 means the person is totally unknown, 100 means a worker is known worldwide (such as The Rock). Generally wrestlers below 10 will be working for backyard federations, wrestlers around 60 will be working for Cult promotions, and workers over 80 will be working for Global promotions.

Perhaps you should read better!

Yeah, cause we all know ROH has more online fans watching content than WWE does... WWE has Superstar on the Internet which shows those guys unless they are being fed to the Tensais and Rybacks of the world. I see the WWE audience as the be all end all because you have a mix of die-hards and then the typical WWE audience. At Money in the Bank, there were chants for D-Bry, Punk, Cena, Jericho, Ziggler and the other usual suspects. Now you throw an ROH guy in there, they MAY get a reaction if he is from the hometown but not much more.

As for the hot 200 through maybe 1,000+ fans that react for a guy in ROH, WOULD THEY get that in a WWE or even to a lesser extent TNA, no. They are over on the indies in maybe a few promotions but not on the same scale. Yes, I made jokes about the team of Epico and Primo getting a pop mainly off of Rosa at Money in the Bank, but the fact is they at least get something. Throw a Davey Richards in WWE and see how many cheers he'd get on his debut if he was used like another recent main streamed talent. Hell look at Kaval, he is over like a mfer on the indies, but in WWE he was not getting enough to warrant a 66.

On a side note, Derrick Bateman, Johnny Curtis and I THINK McGillicutty are full-time in developmental now.

The most of these "die hard" fans would know who are the Top Guys in the Independent Circus. Because they are Wrestlingfans and not "only" WWE Fans. You know where the "Yes" chants started? And who then carried them into the WWE shows? The crowd at WWE PPVs is often completely different than at a "normal" WWE show. I think that you should have already noticed. (And as for non PPV Shows..apart from RAW, WWE edited the crowd reactions before broadcast.)

Have you seen Kenny King's TNA debut and the reactions he get? And King was nothing as a Midcarder in ROH. The same with Jigsaw.

Somehow I don't think you REALLY understand how the fan's of the industry actually work and that the current stats are wrong. The game is set to be for the entire North American continent and NOT just their promotions and regions. If you want that, play TEW 05, it is freeware just like EWR is. The problem is if you put these indy guys into WWE and to a lesser extent TNA. The problem is anywhere from 200-1000 people see an independent show on a normal night for a normal sized show. For a TYPICAL WWE venue, that is is 10% of the fans in the arena at most. In TNA is is more likely because they get only thousands or so at a show and rely on the die-hard fans. Take Wes Brisco or Dakota Darsow in TNA, due to their time in FCW and FUW in Florida, they MAY have about 30% of the fans cheer them at the beginning of their matches (rather than maybe 3% at a WWE show.) Kenny King has done FIP work before joining ROH and was known in Florida before "debuting" in TNA this Rubix didn't get much of a reaction in TNA...

If you go by your logic, Mexican wrestlers should have overness in the same ballpark because CMLL and AAA run similar sized buildings TNA and WWE runs for house shows and in CMLL's case, WWE TV.

The PPVs I've been to in Arizona which have been 2008's Cyber Sunday and this year's Money in the Bank had the same crowd response to the two RAWs and one SmackDown, I've been to. The big names get cheers, or boos the lesser guys get nothing. The only show I would put in the it is special territory that I have been to in AZ is WrestleMania. When I lived on Long Island and went to Nassau Coliseum shows or the lone MSG show I went to, it was the crowd you'd expect with die-hards. The problem is that you look at AZ, it is not at all a hot bed of wrestling. The only indies I can think of ever being here is RoH and Dragon Gate (Mania weekend,) Impact Zone or Johnny Stambolli's group that is on the local network here. I am sure you would see that in most places that are not the tri-state area,

The "Yes" stuff was starting back when Daniel Bryan first won the title and then it eventually turned into his prance to the ring and eventually the chants. Did Die-hards help build that chant, YES but I would say the Alberto Del Rio "Si" chant is a better one to help your case because the Daniel Bryan one would eventually would have happened in some way with or without diehards. Case in point, two kids at a WWE show wanted to chant ECW during matches that were not hardcore or had ECW ties right after either Taijiri or Stevie Richards just wrestled so I am going back to 2005.

CMLL Notes:

Raise Dragon Lee/Mistico II's overness to 48. Watching fan cam footage and he was OVER in his debut (though he was in the 4th match of 6.)

Diamante Azul and Atlantis are the new CMLL World Tag Team Champions.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Team 720

[KrisClassic]

-Rename Zuffa to Havoc. Make him a heavyweight. Check Menacing and Trainer. Change his image to this. Raise his brawl to 66, selling to 63, and overness to 34. Lower his speed to 39. Remove his touring commitment with Zero One. Make his gimmick Bad Ass. Raise his wages to 7,000.

There is are three other Havocs in the game (all with promotions in the name.) I named him Zuffa as per Bill's rule regarding the multiple names (Plus WXW is not and still not in the game.)

Yes, there are other Havocs, however none of them are just "Havoc". I don't see why it should be a problem (especially considering I am in the process of compiling all of the WXW talent who aren't in the game. Bill said, providing I give all of the info, WXW C4 would replace NWA F1).

[Guest Team 720]

-Rename Zuffa to Havoc. Make him a heavyweight. Check Menacing and Trainer. Change his image to this. Raise his brawl to 66, selling to 63, and overness to 34. Lower his speed to 39. Remove his touring commitment with Zero One. Make his gimmick Bad Ass. Raise his wages to 7,000.

There is are three other Havocs in the game (all with promotions in the name.) I named him Zuffa as per Bill's rule regarding the multiple names (Plus WXW is not and still not in the game.)

Yes, there are other Havocs, however none of them are just "Havoc". I don't see why it should be a problem (especially considering I am in the process of compiling all of the WXW talent who aren't in the game. Bill said, providing I give all of the info, WXW C4 would replace NWA F1).

I did not catch that it is official. I thought the F1 thing was that they may be removed. I think there was another Havoc (causing the others with the promotion initials) at some point but I am not sure why they did get deleted.

[Darth Rapture]

- Rename Lord Tensai = Tensai

Already change it

- Natalya = Heel

Why? Show some recent footage with her acting heelish.

Thanks Bill, you do a awesome job every month!

EDIT: Also, I'm gone suggest stats for Claire Lynch, first time I suggest stats, I accept any changes:

Full Name: Claire Lynch

Short Name: Claire

Lightweight - Unknown

Age: 34-36

American?

Brawl: 4

Speed: 2

Technical: 0

Stiffness: 15

Selling: 25

Over: 71

Charisma: 79

Attitude and Behaviour: 85

Finishers: Low Blow and Bitch Slap (Both Impact), Someone please make a wage suggestion

Written Contract with TNA, Non-Wrestler, Heel, I accept suggestions for gimmick

Natalya was heel on NXT two weeks ago, but she does not reflect this on regular programming yet.