EWB's Top 50 TV Shows of 2012: The Results

[Josh]

RE: Breaking Bad

So glad that Hank has gotten a couple of shout-outs here for being a terrific character. I just finished Season 2, Episode 8 (purely for point of reference, no spoilers implied), but in the early goings I hated Hank. Hated him hard. But over time, watching the choices he made, he won me over in a big way. He still does things that seem (and often are) douchey on the surface, but I've come to learn the good intentions behind what he does. (Sidenote: A TON of people talk up how great Bryan Cranston and Aaron Paul are on here, but everyone should be mentioning Dean Norris in the same breath. Given his IMDB resume, this should be considered a breakout role for him. If it's not, that's a damn shame.)

To expand that into the larger conversation, RE: Likability, I think Breaking Bad shows that the ability to identify with a character is, perhaps, more important. Again, I'm only midway through the 2nd season of Breaking Bad, but I've come to identify with every major character in some way or another (even Skyler, who I now realize gets an unfairly bad reputation around here.) Every last one of them has exhibited moments of both moral integrity and a lack of the same. There's no one character that you will always like, but more often than not you'll identify with the choices they make - good or bad. And when you identify with those bad choices, thus disliking that character in the moment, you are - in that same moment - disliking something about yourself. So far, I think that's the major triumph of this series - it effectively forces us to look into the mirror and examine our own principles.

So - while I might have once disagreed with this - no, I don't think Likability is necessary in a series. But I must be able to Identify with at least some (even one) of the major characters.

I was going to say that shows like Always Sunny or Seinfeld (both, in some sense, feature only people making bad decisions) were exceptions to this, but I don't think they are. We still identify with those characters, we just don't get an opportunity to see the goodness in ourselves reflected.

I think the division in taste then comes from those who are fine with seeing their own horrible qualities (even if exaggerated) constantly on display differing with those who need to see their positive qualities on display at least some of the time. I don't mean that as a knock on either category, I just think some people have no problem swallowing the bitter pill, while others like a little sweetness now and again.

[Your Mom]

That seems offensive to me and I don't agree with it at all. Don't really know how to elaborate right now, but yeah I don't agree.

[Josh]

That response worried me, so I had to read back over what I wrote to see what has caused offense. I assume you're especially referring to this bold section:

I think the division in taste then comes from those who are fine with seeing their own horrible qualities (even if exaggerated) constantly on display differing with those who need to see their positive qualities on display at least some of the time. I don't mean that as a knock on either category, I just think some people have no problem swallowing the bitter pill, while others like a little sweetness now and again.

Even with the opening phrase of the sentence that follows it, I can see why that would cause some offense, even though I truly did not mean any of that as a value judgement upon anyone.

At best, it's a thought that could be easily misinterpreted and, at worst, it's oversimplifying and missing the mark.

The whole reason that came about is we, as a board, have been pecking at that general topic for a while in here, and so it's been simmering on my mind as I've tried to draw some kind of productive conclusion from it. While I think my thought process to get there was fairly well articulated, my attempt at a neat and tidy conclusion still didn't quite add up.

And to be perfectly frank, I think I personally tend to fall in the category of "Wants SOMEONE on the Show to Be Likable". So even if I was consciously judging anyone, it was myself.

In the end, I meant no offense to anyone and I hate to see that I've offended anyway - especially a poster that I like and respect, like you. I apologize for that.

[Your Mom]

It was that point exactly. It's like you're saying "Hey some of us can take that kind of TV and some of us can't handle it" Like some of us are too weak to or something. You can say it's not meant as a value judgement or a knock either way but to me thats exactly what it is.

[C-MIL]

RE: Breaking Bad

So glad that Hank has gotten a couple of shout-outs here for being a terrific character. I just finished Season 2, Episode 8 (purely for point of reference, no spoilers implied), but in the early goings I hated Hank. Hated him hard. But over time, watching the choices he made, he won me over in a big way. He still does things that seem (and often are) douchey on the surface, but I've come to learn the good intentions behind what he does. (Sidenote: A TON of people talk up how great Bryan Cranston and Aaron Paul are on here, but everyone should be mentioning Dean Norris in the same breath. Given his IMDB resume, this should be considered a breakout role for him. If it's not, that's a damn shame.)

Agreed.

I wrote a big post, but read back that you were still on season two and since I don't know how to do spoiler tags, I'll just say the transformation of mild-mannered Walter White to evil Heisenberg pretty much inversely correlates to the transformation of Hank from goofy meathead possibly-even-corrupt cop to friggin' Batman.

[Walker]

I'm lost at whatever point people found Breaking Bad offensive, but I guess the nature of media is different people have different readings. Oh well.

To me throughout Breaking Bad we have seen a gradual shift to where we are now. Walter White started as the victim trapped in life that has practically beaten the soul out of him. Cancer takes him to a world he does not want to be involved with, but he is doing it selflessly to provide for his family. Then we learn his past and what he could have been, and we are made to believe it was all taken away from him. He was a helpless man fighting for everything, all the while surrounded by all these annoying/bad people.

Then it all changed.

Without spoiling a great deal, Walter changed, we are made to reflect on everything we know about him and realise this was the real WW all along. Meanwhile, the likes of Jesse, Hank, Mike, etc not only redeemed their characters but became the morality of the show. Walter was no longer the victim he made us believe he was, we are supposed to hate him for that.

I can't think of a TV show that has come anywhere close to pulling something like that off like Breaking Bad has done.

[GoGo Yubari]

Hank's the brother-in-law, right? I think I remember liking him the most, which isn't saying much.

It's been about half a year since I stopped watching it, but I remember hating Walter White's family, and Jesse did some real shit that made me hate him too. It was especially after the I.F.T episode that I realized why I wasn't enjoying the show, and from the end of that season on I couldn't be bothered continuing the series.

Skyler White is terrible, yes. I wish Walter would kill her.

The most unbelivably insufferable opinion Breaking Bad fans have bar none.

[LL!]

Not to mention that it's completely contradictory to Walter's character. Two huge reasons.

1. He still loves her.

2. Even if he didn't (he totally does) his pride wouldn't allow him to. He started this thing to provide for his family. If he kills her there wouldn't be a point to all the madness. And he's too smart and too proud for that shit.