Black Panther: Wakanda Forever ***DISCUSSION/SPOILERS WITHIN***

[GoGo Yubari]

Yeah, I don't feel comfortable talking about the plot details of a movie this big in a generalized, big-tent thread like the MCU movie thread as long as we don't have spoiler tags and also I don't want people to feel stifled talking about one of the biggest movies of the year so here it is, a dedicated thread for Wakanda Forever. 

Warning! Spoilers! I'm even gonna add a bunch of space as one last warning! Be forewarned!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

yeah so anyway, they really better have made the stakes of this stuff clear to Letitia Wright and what she's jeopardizing if she fucks things up with whatever takes she may have because Shuri's the right character to take on the mantle of Black Panther but mm, yeah...

[Chris2K]

I was genuinely angry at the opening scene given that her character was literally trying to create a cure (aka a vaccine) that only had a 28% chance of working, yet she was still willing to use it to save her brother. I have no idea how Letitia Wright could film that scene, appreciate the emotional impact of it, and yet still not understand how an actual working vaccine could save so many lives in the real world.

That anger soon turned to tears though. The silent, Chadwick-only Marvel title screen is making me tear up now just thinking about it.

Actress aside I wasn't a big fan of the Shuri character before COVID, the way she was written as the smartest person in the world whilst also acting like a child grated with me somewhat, and that continued through this film as well. Personally, I'd rather Shuri was the queen/tech provider and someone else was Black Panther, any one of Okoye, Nakia or Ayo for example. They're all trained fighters, whereas Shuri has only been shown being able to fire sonic gauntlets and has no fight training, at least that's been shown. I had hoped that Okoye being thrown out of the Dora Milaje was going to lead to her getting the Black Panther mantle, I guess she got a Disney+ show instead.

Another minor nitpick is that, as much as I love JLD, I don't really know what the point of Val (or Everett Ross for that matter) being in the movie was. At least we now know what her actual role is. 

But on to positive things. Angela Bassett was superb, granted most of her big moments were in the trailers, but that way she spoke at the UN conference showed a badass side that we hadn't seen before, on top of her emotional speeches. M'Baku may never be replaceable as my favourite character in the BP franchise, so I'm glad he appears to be taking over as King of Wakanda. I wasn't sure of what to think of Riri going in, but came out really enjoying what she brought to the table and am looking forward to Ironheart. Everything involving Namor was great, and I am so glad they didn't Kill-monger him and hopefully he'll stay around as a recurring character. And a surprise Michael B. Jordan scene was everything I could have hoped for, and was a very smart move to show Shuri's thought process was more in line with the "villain" than of her brother.

And as for the credits scene, well that got me in tears again, slightly awkward given that I had to walk through a crowded cinema moments later. I hadn't expected a son of T'Challa to be introduced but as soon as I saw Nakia walking with a 6-7 year old child it became clear. We have a Prince T'Challa again.

[GoGo Yubari]

I have a lot of more general thoughts to come when I'm not in the office but I think the point of Val being in the movie first and foremost was to make it clear that there are very good reasons for both Wakanda and Talokan (gonna take a bit for me to not knee-jerk say "Atlantis," a little surprised and kind of happy that they didn't even lampshade it) to be wary of their place in the world, and that even though Namor failed in his main goal he has good reason to think that he can get what he wants down the road.

I like that they didn't really do any huge sequel teases with this movie but I was very much expecting a post-credits scene introducing the Thunderbolts and setting up further conflict there (probably over Zemo, another thing I was a little surprised wasn't mentioned much beyond the confirmation that presumably he is alive and imprisoned at the mercy of T'Challa).

[Chris2K]

Forgot to mention, the guy representing the US at the UN conference is referred to as the Secretary of State, which is the position General Ross previously held.

Given that Harrison Ford has taken over the role, and that Val made a specific reference to the president, could this mean we have a President Thunderbolt Ross, and maybe even a President Red Hulk on our hands?

[tristy]

Give me the Midnight Angels show with Okoye & Aneka right now, Ryan Coogler!

[Maxx]

Really enjoyed everything they did with Namor, that was a great reimagining of him and Atlantis as a whole.  I agree with GoGo’s post in the other thread about him lacking a bit of gravitas, but there were some flashes and I like to think as the character evolves we’ll see some more of that.

[GoGo Yubari]

Political intrigue and vaguely untrustworthy alliances is so intrinsic to the Black Panther comics that I'm very glad that they've set that up with Namor. Would love it if Coogler oversaw a Midnight Angels show and started fleshing out some of those minor characters and parts of the country. Lot of cool stuff being done with that in the comics lately.

[Lint]

It was fine.  Her...views...aside, Letitia Wright isn't an actor on the same level of Chadwick Boseman or Michael B. Jordan, and the movie suffered from neither being the focus, for both real life and in world reasons.  I would've preferred if they made Danai Gurira the focus instead, or even Lupita Nyong'o.

Didn't know anything about Namor at all before this movie, but I really liked him.  I had thought the "Earthquakes under Africa" line in Endgame was a reference to Namor, but apparently not!  Also liked how far they went to make Marvels not-Atlantians feel different from DCs Atlantians.

I did have an issue with the CG.  Whenever it showed someone from Talokan talking with that breathing mask on, the mouths looked REALLY wonky.  Probably should've gone with an opaque mask instead of semi-transparent.

The entire story with Contessa and Ross felt tacked on.

The scene where Namor attacks the platform felt straight out of a horror movie.  Did I miss a scene, or did they not explain how they can sing and hypnotize people?

[Chris2K]

5 hours ago, Lint said:

The entire story with Contessa and Ross felt tacked on.

It feels like Ryan Coogler would be much happier making the Black Panther movies separate from the MCU, any time that there's any universe integration it feels either shoehorned in like Val or tacked on the end, like Bucky at the end of the first movie.

Something I didn't mention, and maybe it was just an issue for me, but some of the scenes were so, so dark that I could barely make out what was going on. For example, I don't know why Lake Bell's CIA lady and her partner were sitting in complete darkness whilst they worked, other than for atmosphere.

[GoGo Yubari]

14 hours ago, Lint said:

The scene where Namor attacks the platform felt straight out of a horror movie.  Did I miss a scene, or did they not explain how they can sing and hypnotize people?

They didn't to my recollection. Very much a "race of underwater people = siren powers" stock thing, which I don't really have any qualms with.

[Lint]

2 hours ago, GoGo Yubari said:

They didn't to my recollection. Very much a "race of underwater people = siren powers" stock thing, which I don't really have any qualms with.

Honestly that didn't even occur to me

[Benjamin]

Don't care what anyone else says, I absolutely loved it, was heartbroken and moved by everything, and absolutely into every bit of this movie. Maybe just a smudge behind the first one, but this one grew leaps and bounds beyond the single focused view of T'Challa to exploring much much more in Wakanda, IMO. 

Even the white people parts made sense to me, even if to just slow down the pace a little. 

[Maxx]

Everyone else said they also really enjoyed it...?

[Chris2K]

There have been some bizarrely negative reviews, like this 1 star one from the Telegraph, where the comments are full of "go woke, go broke" idiots.

I guess the 13th biggest opening weekend of all time is "going broke".

[tristy]

On 11/11/2022 at 13:49, Chris2K said:

Forgot to mention, the guy representing the US at the UN conference is referred to as the Secretary of State, which is the position General Ross previously held.

Given that Harrison Ford has taken over the role, and that Val made a specific reference to the president, could this mean we have a President Thunderbolt Ross, and maybe even a President Red Hulk on our hands?

I forgot to mention this a few days ago, but 
Dermot Mulroney’s Ritson character is the current President in the MCU.

[Maxx]

When did the MCU bring in Dylan McDermott?

[GoGo Yubari]

They should keep alternating which one is playing the president every other appearance and see how long it takes for people to notice.

[tristy]

4 hours ago, Maxx said:

When did the MCU bring in Dylan McDermott?

He plays the President in Secret Invasion.

I see what you did there. You son of a bitch 😂

Edited November 15, 2022 by tristy

[Maxx]

Derbil McDillet is the president!?

[GoGo Yubari]

Only one man could bring the presence and dignity needed for the role of "POTUS we mostly just see in news clips sometimes," and that man's name is D~~~~~ M~~~~~.