Club Vs. Country

[Guest Blads]

The domestic season is over and Euro 2004 is approaching so now we're all suposed to get hyped over our countries exploits now.

But I've said it once and I'll say it again, club will always win over country for me. It's not that I don't care about the national side, of course I'll be watching and wanting themt o win in Portugal, but I just cant get hyped u for national games like I do when Chelsea play. Maybe it's because they play so many meaningless friendlies (most of which they lose).

So, happy voting.

[Thomas]

The domestic season is over and Euro 2004 is approaching so now we're all suposed to get hyped over our countries exploits now.

But I've said it once and I'll say it again, club will always win over country for me. It's not that I don't care about the national side, of course I'll be watching and wanting themt o win in Portugal, but I just cant get hyped u for national games like I do when Chelsea play. Maybe it's because they play so many meaningless friendlies (most of which they lose).

So, happy voting.

←

I'm shocked you've said club. Club is nothing compared to country.

Shocked.

[Cortez]

It's a very close call, but id say that id rather see England win the World cup, and meaningful Euro tournaments than Arsenal winning the league, but like i sadi its a close call, kinda a 49%-51% thing.

[FLiam]

Bit of a close call.

There would be NOTHING like getitng hyped seeing Arsenal come out of the tunnel for the Champions' League final but I have never experienced it.

There would also be notihng like seeing England coming out for the World Cup final, but once again. I haven't experienced it.

I wouild have to say country that wins 55-45

[Timmoru Suzuki]

Its tough. I don't believe i've ever got into/behind an England game the way I have some Sheffield United games (like the Forest Play off Semi Final, 2nd Leg, or the Arsenal FA Cup semi - both season before last), but then again, i've never seen England in a World Cup semi-Final or Final (Was too young to remmber Italia 90). Then, Likewise, if United were to make a FA Cup final or whatever then I'd be behind them sooooooooo much. I would say Country though, but its tight, like 52/48.

Plus, if I were a player, I doubt I could ever have a bigger honour then playing for my country.

[9 to 5]

I would probably go with country. I love my club to death, but if we will a title (95 what a year) or something it is fucking great. But when Englnad even win a game at the world cup or the european championship's the whole country seems to party together. That's just something special in my book.

[G-O-D]

If England wins Euro 2004, I'll mark much more fucking harder than if Chelsea wins the Premiership.

[DMN in the House]

Put it this way, I stayed up till 7 in the morning after working the day before just to see the US beat Mexico.

[Bonz]

Country has to go above any club that you may play for no matter what the sport. There is nothing better than playing for your country and thats the way it should be treated

[Johnny Drama]

country just edges out club

[lanky316]

Club by miles, I wish many an injury on half of these players 52 weeks a year, why should I stop on the basis that they now where a white shirt with blue shorts for a fortnight evey 2 years. I know footy fans are known for being verbose but thats just ridiculous.

[Jook]

Club. Without a doubt. I don't know why, I just feel more passionate about United than Scotland.

[TMM]

Club. I'm just much, much more passionate about Arsenal than I am about England. Of course I'd love for England to win something, for them to do something.

I think it partly comes down to the fan aspect of it. I mean, I don't know many people who are fans of foreign teams because they are English. But I know tonnes of Man Utd fans, loads of Chelsea etc... and after a match, we can have arguments about who was better, if it was a dive etc.. and get VERY passionate about it. With countries, there really just sin't any of that.

[Guest OnlyOneKeano]

Although i really want England to finally do something in a competion , i wouldnt be to bothered if england came last in Euro and Tottenham won the league . Supporting England means supporting rival players

[pigeon]

Club without a shadow of a doubt.

I don't even support my country any more. Cheering for ManUre players?

I do however want to see Liverpool players do well for their respective countries, and I'm hoping that Stevie G and Michael Owen both have a good Euro 2004, but I'm mainly just hoping they don't pick up injuries.

[fineintent]

Country.

I support Watford, and I'm really not seeing too many glory days ahead. But even if I supported a team who wins things - say Arsenal - it would have to be country. I think there's something special about representing your country - the whole of England goes crazy when there's a big tournament, it draws everybody in. It appeals to the patriot in all of us.

[J-Rod]

I love both Man. Utd and Ireland, but I would have to say Ireland.

[Guest Takayamanofear]

Put it this way, I stayed up till 7 in the morning after working the day before just to see the US beat Mexico.

Same here, that was a great game. I don't really get into club that much, there is just something better able watching my country play against other countrys. I stayed up to watch every world cup game but the finals and the semi finals that year.

Edited May 31, 2004 by Takayamanofear

[Different Cloud]

I did originally vote Club as that is what you support week in week out, but the fact that the country thing only happens every so often makes it more special. So now I am stuck, I think I would rate things like Rangers getting into the Champions League along with John Collins scoring a penalty against Brazil in the World Cup finals about the same.

[pigeon]

Sorry to bring up an old(ish) thread, but I found this, which is pretty close to how I feel.

England, LFC and me

By Barry Williams

Date: 9/6/2004

The start of Euro 2004 is fast approaching. England fans across the country are debating the pros and cons of the diamond midfield formation against the more traditional 4-4-2 system. 

White van drivers, taxi drivers, people carrier drivers, go faster metal alloy wheel trim drivers, and family saloon drivers are proudly flying the cross of St. George from their vehicles.

The supermarkets are bursting with cross of St George design t-shirts, polo shirts, casual going down the pub shirts, blouses, dresses, underwear, socks, pyjamas, women's nighties, blow up chairs, flags, more flags, flags everywhere, big and hang from your living room window flags, little wave in front of the tele flags, medium size flags, tea towels, beach towels, barbecue sets complete with cross of St George plastic plates and plastic cups.

Pubs everywhere are decorated with the flag. They sag and hang limply on your head from just above as you try to order a pint. The people lick their lips in anticipation of this footballing feast. Land of Hope and Glory, The Great Escape, God Save The Queen. We've cried through 38 years of hurt, but it never stopped us dreaming. Come on Eng er land. Make us proud.

The problem for me is that I don't feel a part of this mass hysteria of patriot flag waving. Why is this? Shouldn't I be letting the fervour of '66, the pride of Moore, Peters and Hurst, the anger at the injustice of the handballing incident by the vertically challenged of '86 and the Italia '90 tears of Gazza pervade and sink into my very being. Shouldn't it resurface into a stiff upper lipped pride that makes me want to rush out and hang a couple of pieces of red crossed cloth from the windows of my car with a third flapping from the aerial for good measure? Shouldn't I be 100 percent behind England? My England? My team?

There lies the difficulty. England isn't my team. My team is Liverpool. Liverpool belongs to me in a way that England never can. Liverpool is in my blood, Liverpool affects my moods. Following Liverpool has given me some of the best times in my life, and some of the worst. Liverpool FC is a part of who I am. To me, England is just a sideshow. This coming competition, a bit of interest during a summer barren of league football. England just doesn't stimulate the same feelings of passion and allegiance that I feel for Liverpool. England isn't important to me. I may feel a mild sense of pleasure if England wins, but I'm not elated. There may be a quickly passing sense of slight disappointment if they lose but I'm not 'gutted'. In terms of football, the only team that can make me euphoric or leave me feeling desolate is Liverpool. Those strong feelings associated with a passion in your life are precious, and they can only be reserved for what is important to you. I'm sorry England, but like a '74, '78 or '94 World Cup, you don't qualify.

Why do I feel like this? Why do I feel so disconnected from the national team? Why can't I summon up some passion for the cause? A major reason was mentioned in the previous paragraph. I don't feel that England belongs to me. I'm a scouser, a northerner, but this argument applies if you're from anywhere outside of London and its surrounding areas. England doesn't belong to the people, because it doesn't come to the people. This latest footballing road show of the last few years as a homeless England has cavorted around the country doesn't count, because we all know that as soon as Wembley is rebuilt England will return to 'the home of football' and 'the venue of legends'.

I'm sure I would feel more for England if they played around the stadiums of the country and involved the people instead of excluding them. There are plenty of stadiums in the country that can host England games. The last few years have proved the point. Why should people have to travel miles to Wembley when they want to go to an England match? Wembley will be a valid place to hold an England international, but it's no more valid than any other league football stadium that has the capacity and facilities to host an international match. I will concede that some games need to be hosted in a large stadium such as Wembley when England play teams that have a high pulling power, but this is only a small percentage of the total. Surely its better to play a friendly against, say, Hungary in a smaller stadium that will probably be filled close to capacity rather than a half empty and soul less 'national' stadium. If I'm ever going to be involved enough to call myself an England supporter, England are going to have to make the effort and take the game to the people. The fact that England has travelled the country lately because they haven't got a 'permanent' home isn't good enough. Easy access to see your national side should be a right, not a privilege.

I may not understand why millions of people are buying anything at the moment that bears the cross of St. George, and I may not understand how and why people summon up the pride and passion to drive them to hang England flags from their cars and houses, but I'm glad that the flag has been reclaimed by the people. The St. George cross had been hijacked by the far right for too long. It had come to be associated with hate fuelled far right ideologies so it is desirable that the people have claimed it back to represent their pride in their national football team and their country.

However, how far does national pride go when you're supporting England? Even if England did have a lasting policy of sharing the game with the people around the country I'm not sure if I could get involved. The connotations associated with the phrase 'England supporter' are alien to me and fill me with dread. It's the mass display of ridiculous false national pride that I can't stomach. I don't want to generalise too much, but I write from the perspective of what I observe.

Why do thousands of English supporters sing 'Rule Britannia' while supporting their national team? Britain hasn't got a football team. I'm looking at Group B right now. It doesn't say France, Croatia, Switzerland and Britain. It's pure jingoism. It's the sub text that says 'we are British and we are superior'. It's the premise that thousands of hooligans work on as they give the foreigners a 'good kicking' as they fight with notions in their head of an empire that doesn't exist any more. 'Britannia rules the waves?' No it doesn't, it hasn't done for a long time. It certainly used to, and the legacy of the empire has created present day problems all over the world for countries in the Caribbean, to Africa, to the Far East. It's not something to be proud of, and it has absolutely no relevance to supporting a football team. Singing 'Rule Britannia' is nothing more than crass misplaced pride in a false notion of superiority as a people, and in a country that has been culturally imperialised by America, lost its identity, and is little more than the 51st state. It goes beyond supporting a football team, and I want no part of it.

It's the same premise when England play Germany and the theme music to 'The Great Escape' is blasted out for large portions of the game. It's that same notion of superiority. It's pure foreigner baiting. I have nothing but admiration for the brave soldiers of the many nationalities that liberated Europe from the occupying Nazis, but this is the 21st century. Germany is a crucial part of the European Union and the attitude of 'we are superior to you because we won the war' is outdated, simplistic and as ridiculous as John Cleese's parody of nationalism in the famous episode of 'Fawlty Towers'.

Earlier in this article I mentioned that I considered England as a sideshow. Often it's quite an unwelcome sideshow. Usually when England is playing it's during the football season. Quite often it's what I would consider a meaningless friendly which tires my club teams players and threatens them with possible injury. How can I get involved and support something that could jeopardise the fitness of some of the best players in the team that I support? For me, it's an unwanted distraction and a hindrance. In last months issue of 4-4-2 magazine there is a reader's letter that basically says that the writer was happy because Scholes received a 3 match ban so he could have a rest before Euro 2004. He also calls on the managers in the Premiership to give their England squad members a rest and use them sparingly for the last games of the season so that they are fresh to play for England. I can't understand this attitude. To me, my club is everything. The needs of England don't even register. If players are fit to play for England that's fine, but to want players to be rested by their clubs so that England can benefit at the expense of the club is beyond my comprehension.

Supporting England with total passion cannot be achieved without overriding your club loyalties. It requires you to switch on and switch off feelings at a whim and I cannot manage to do this. How am I, as a Scouser, supposed to get behind the alleged Liverpool hating Gary Neville. I dislike him with a passion. I just can't do it. How am I, as a Liverpool supporter, supposed to cheer on Wayne Rooney? I just can't bring myself to do it. It would go against my whole identity as a Red. I think it could even trigger a personality crisis. Some things are just too dangerous to tamper with.

So, forgive me if I don't get too over enthusiastic about England And Euro 2004. Forgive me that I'm not going to fly the flag or buy the t-shirt. Don't get me wrong. I want England to win. It's just that I won't be too bothered if they don't.

Barry Williams

source - shanklygates.co.uk