Next Gen System

[SeanDMan]

Dooku, you should probably notice how fanboyish you seem, I use that term loosely since you aren't wild with bad grammar or anything it may imply, but you seem to be all over defending Nintendo. I defend Nintendo as well myself, when people bring up stupid arguments against their systems, so I'd be the last person to bash Nintendo without a completely solid reasoning

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Fuck that. To this point you have mentioned ONE pieces of remotely logical and possibly defensable reasoning and the rest was so dead fucking wrong that I could have gone on for days quoting numbers and digging up reviews and basically making you already thin logic look completely non-existant. As it is you are not even close to being on base and don't really deserve the verbose and comprehensive counterstatements that I afford them.

I hope, that when I am finished, you will never post again, take up tennis, and become a world champion. At the very least I would require you to not make statesments with little to no "completely solid reasoning".

I seriously cannot believe you used those words. You are so wrong, man, so so wrong.

Onto your new essay.

The controller was not well put together, thus a very uncomfortable controller to hold, having to move your hand in to use the joystick.

You did? Funny, I just measured the range of my thumb at 11 centimeters and the range between the N64 joystick and Dpad as aound 6. Granted, I have large hands, but it is entirely possible for a normal human being to use the joystick and the dpad with the hand in the same position. Uncomfotable? That's up to the user.

(Completely Solid Reasoning: 0 for 1)

It was also put together badly, as the joystick would break within a month of playing Mario Party, No Mercy, and other games that required a quick jab of the joystick.

Completely innacurate. I have had the same Nintendo 64 controller since I got the system (selling an SNES, NES, and two Genesis systems at the time to buy one used within a few months of it's release) and the joystick is fine. Another controller of mine has sticky buttons but the joystick is fine.

In actual reality (where everyone else lives besides you), when Mario Party was released there was an epidemic of injuries caused from the insane joystick motions required. Nintendo offered, with proof of purchase, a free glove to all people who bought Mario Party in order to ward off the blisters the joysticks would open on the palms of gamers. Wrist injuries were still a problem, and there wasn't a surge in broken controllers.

As well, in an issue InCite (I believe it was), Trent Reznor spoke about how much he liked video games and personally told stories of thrown N64 controllers withstanding a pissed off band. And if anyone would throw a meaner controller I cannot come up with a name.

(Completely Solid Reasoning: -1 for 1{Reznor'd})

The console itself was not durable for Nintendo standards, considering it fell off my TV stand and the casing broke, the system still worked fine but this is a 2 foot drop I'm talking about. While my Gameboy has been dropped out of a car window, stepped on, and put through the washing machine. My GameCube has fallen from my TV stand, been kicked, had shit dropped on it(big piece of lumber, a persons head, and so on), and both it and the Gameboy barely have scratches or markings of any kind. When you compare the N64 to Nintendo standards, which is what I would be doing here, it's an inferior system in that sense.

From my own personal experience, having owned a Gamecube, N64, SNES, and PS's, I will say I am on my fifth SNES, second Gamecube, second PS2, gave up on PS1 number four, and am still in posession of my original N64, and on occaision even scrape away residue from a glass of milk I spilled in it while running.

Since we're both debating personal experience with no factual backing either way, though, I will give you one point if when you reply you tell me the funny story that led to you dropping a person's head on your system, as it's no doubt a laff riot.

(Completely Solid Reasoning: 0 for 1)

And that's it. You then make "to me", "IMO", "I" kinda statements as to why PS1 is better based on great games. I won't argue that (or Matzat's post... I speak Matzat, and a lot of that was perfectly accurate critiques of Nintendo marketting mistakes and absolutely inexcusable blunders on their part) because I never claimed that PS 1 didn't have good games. But the N64 has great games, at the time great, and still go back and play great. I can think of 2 PS 1 games I would want to dig out and play now: Resident Evil 1, and Metal Gear Solid. Both have been rereleased on the Gamecube recently. Opposed to that, I named several games up above that were and are still great, playable N64 games.

This arguement is so terrible... you made a statement and did NOTHING in that post or two subsequent ones to back it up with ANTHING beyond "I like FF7 Cloud is so dweamy!" while I, essentially, waste my time typing up hundred odd word posts about how off base you are. Unless you really pull something bad out of your ass, like claiming that The Filth Element was better then Perfect Dark, I don't have much interest in continuing to make you my e-bitch, as there are much more annoying and more highly educated assholes I could target then you.

[Guest Grapehead]

Excuse me, what did I say about how great FF7 is, that would lead to a mockery of how great I think Cloud is? Seriously, I used FF7 as an example of a game I play occasionally, and it was in a list, I didn't go off on a seperate speech about FF7.

Wow, my personal experiences contradict your personal experiences, that's no proof of anything, considering how much PS2's apparently break, while the 4 that have gone through my possession are still working fine, with no problems registered. I had one I sold to a couple I babysit for, one I bought from a friend that I sold to another friend later to cover my GC costs, another bought from a friend and sold to a friend to buy one that had it's HD already installed. I still talk to all those people, and they still have all the same systems, and considering the first one was a launch date PS2, I'd say it's lasted awhile. So your personal experience portrays a durable N64, while mine a durable PS2, and since both of those experiences conflict with the others, I'd say personal experiences are nothing, let's forget them.

Funny if I'm so wrong, that you could go on and on about how wrong I am, why don't you just sum it up with some numbers and figures like you claim you can, because quite frankly I know you're full of it. I argue the numbers, so I know my shit, and whether or not I'm conveying to you myself correctly, it makes no sense for you to claim you could ramble on about how terrible my arguments are when you can't and won't. Ok, you did pick apart my last post, but instead of arguing facts, you just said I was wrong, gave an example of something that happened to you and/or threw in Trent Reznor. You also left out parts of my related comments to make me look stupider, and completely misread my last paragraph. For example, when you quoted me talking about the controller and the joystick, you made a good comment about the distance between the joystick and d-pad(which I'll get to later), but you missed this:

I haven't seen a joystick in good repair since the current gen consoles came out, which leads me to believe a well worked controller just can't take the beating that games unleashed on it.

[zero]

I'll say it once, and I'll say it again, console wars get more heated than threads devoted to the abortion argument. Calling Sony or Nintendo's consoles shitty is just plain stupid and nothing but silly personal bias.

Lets go back in time a bit, early 90s when the first real console war kicked in. Super Nintendo Entertainment System vs. Sega Genesis. Both consoles were absolutely fantastic and if you didn't own them both, you missed out on some of the greatest games of all time. This is probably why there is no clear cut winner of that war because both systems were just too fucking good and you should have owned them both.

Next round, Sega flubs it with the Saturn (despite some fucking awesome games) and the war is pretty much the Nintendo 64 vs. newcomer Sony's Playstation. When it comes down to sales, Sony murdered Nintendo. Nintendo sold a shitload of N64s, don't get me wrong, but the amount of Playstations sold was just mindblowing. Nintendo took FOREVER to release high quality titles and while they were recreating a fantastic formula that worked for them in the past, they forgot something; people who grew up with Nintendo... grew up. Video games weren't kids toys, kids who played video games were now adults who play video games and Sony took advantage of that. They painted Nintendo with the kiddy brush (no matter how exaggerated that claim was) and it really hurt the Mario family. When it comes to high quality games in this war, it's pretty even despite what anyone has said in this thread. Sony had the market on RPGs, fighting games, and racing while Nintendo had the market on platformers, FPS (if you had Goldeneye and PD, you didn't need anything Sony was offering) and wrestling games. And quickly, anyone who says a wrestling game is a fighting game is fucking wrong. I don't care what the magazines say, they're fucking idiots; a wrestling game is a wrestling game. So really, the two were pretty even when it came to five-star quality titles, but Sony had the edge on quantity and mass appeal. You may call that mediocrity, I call it smart business and it worked.

As for system durability? Who gives a fuck? Controllers shouldn't need to be indestructable because I don't throw mine around, I got over that phase when I was 10. I've had both Sony systems and used every first party controller ever devised and I've had one break on me--the R2 button got stuck--and that was due to over 500 hours of Grand Theft Auto 3, Vice City, and San Andreas between me, my best buddy, and my brother using the controller (as well as all the other games being played with it). Other than that, no controller issues ever. When it comes to systems themselves, I've had to replace just about every system I've owned: the NES, easily the most annoying piece of hardware ever created, the SNES, the PSX, and the PS2. The PS2 just broke down in November of 2003, I called Sony and it was fixed free of charge and they sent me a free controller to boot, so my experiences with them have been rather pleasant.

Now, the new generation. If the playing field were level, I'd tell you the best system of this generation should have been and would have been the Sega Dreamcast. That system produced more five-star titles in one year, than some systems have in their entire cycle. It was simply the perfect system that became a victim of bad timing and Sony's awesome marketing machine. Of course the PS2's launch was so fucking awful, I will never buy a system at launch ever again because Gamecube and XBox followed up with launches just as uninispiring. Now that all the systems are here and in their grooves, Sony again has mass appeal and the majority of the five star quality games. Gamecube, however fixes all the problems that plagued the N64 and deserves a hell of a lot more praise than it gets. Nintendo just needs to stop being stubborn and realize that its fans want online play, more mature titles, and third party support. The XBox, in my opinion is the most disappointing of the three systems despite it technically being number two in the current war. It truly sells itself on one game that isn't that good in the first place, it's fun, but it's nowhere near the greatest game of all time. Microsoft's saving grace is their amazing online set up; XBox Live is hands down, one of the best things ever done to evolve the industry. Still, it's by no means a crappy system, just capable of so much more with Microsoft's money backing it.

When it comes to the next round, there's no doubt in my mind Sony will continue its success because they will have the third party support again. The only mystery in the equation is whether or not the XBox 2's launch will benefit Microsoft or backfire horribly. Without Halo 3 at launch, I am highly skeptical of a wildy successful launch, no matter how many parties they throw on MTV with the Killers performing. Of course, they will have Perfect Dark 0, but with how disappointing the deal with Rare has been, I am skeptical of that as well. If XBox 2/360/Xenon's launch fails, then it's going to be back to Sony vs. Nintendo and if Nintendo can get out of their rut and move the industry forward like they should be doing, then they can give Sony a run for their money. But as it stands right now, Sony and Microsoft are moving the industry forward while Nintendo sticks to their guns. People bitching about Sony and MS not just making video game systems need to realize that is the direction the industry is moving. Multi-purpose entertainment are the wave of the future; DVD was just the beginning, now IPods are everywhere, Blackberries, and all that crazy shit are going to be incorporated with games eventually. When PS2 launched, DVD players weren't everywhere like they are now, so that was a great selling point. Nintendo probably can get away with not making their systems DVD compatible and all that, but they cannot excuse the lack of online play. I was a huge opponent of it when the idea was first presented, but it has exploded so much, it is impossible to deny players of that element.

All in all, just like always, it's about what you want to play. Every system has their advantages and disadvantages and always will. There will never be a perfect system and console debates will never die despite the fact they really mean nothing.

[Liam]

^^^ Glad to see I'm not the only one with love for the Dreamcast. If Sega hadn't have fluffed it with that console, it would have been interesting, as it had some awesome titles.

[Herr Matzat]

I speak Matzat

[Guest Future Shock]

He got his GED in Matzatian~!

[jase12881]

A few things i had to add (My own opinions here so don't get too insulted if you don't agree)

Firstly, the first Zelda for Nintendo 64 is not, in my opinion an RPG. While it has an rpg setting it is not played like a classic RPG. It is more of a puzzle/action game, and in my opinion one of the best games ever created. I never played FFVII and I never cared that much for Final Fantasy games, so I can't make a comparison, but I do know that both games were extremely popular and both could be considered classics from this generation.

Secondly, I agree that PS was a better system in it's own way since it had more games, and had better sound, but Nintendo did have a few games that were superb. These games alone almost made the system worth buying. Perfect Dark (which cost me $90 altogether including the expansion pack), Zelda:Ocarina of Time, and Goldeneye were games that were as good as, or better than anything PS had to offer.

PS still had some great games though. I never owned a playstation, but I wanted one. Soul Reaver was awesome and would be, in my opinion, a better comparison to Zelda. While the setting and tone were -much- different (no comparison there) the gameplay was similiar: Action Puzzle games. And both sported some of the best graphics either system was capable of.

Anyways, Soul Blade was also awesome. Best fighting game of the generation, period.

Also as for the CD being a better medium than cartridges...I agree, but I think the cartridges had some advantages. For one, cartridges couldn't get scratched and didn't have load times. For two, some of the cartridges had their own data storage so you don't need a memory card.

As for the N64 being durable....

Well, the system itself may have been (though my reset button broke like a month after I bought the console), but the controllers certainly weren't. The more you used the joysticks the less sensitive they became. If you compare a brand new N64 controller with a used one, you could see how the joystick became loosened over time. I guess that's not a huge deal, but it was a bit worrying to see my favorite controller with it's joystick rattling around.

Other than that they weren't bad though.

Playstation also occassionally had problems reading discs if they were too dirty, or the head got messed up. That wasn't really a problem with the N64.

The fact is though, both systems had their merits and flaws. I have to give it to the PS because it had more games though.

[Docpepper]

Every system has their own weakness

The Nintendo wasa good syatem but it couldn't stand up to constant use . I kept my system in great condition but after 6 months I'd have to start blowing in the cartridges and in the system itself , until it finally quit and I had to purchase a new one.by the time Sega released the master system , I had 10 nintendo's and none of them worked.

I bought the genesis when it was released followed by the saturn. The saturn really bottomed out and after a year it wouldn't work any more As for the Genisis I still have it and its working perfectly.

The Nintendo 64 was a good system gamewise . I had Zelda , No mercy , Perfect Dark , Golden Eye and etc. games . the controls did have a tendency to break but other than that it was an ok system.

Finally the PS was released and it was a godsend . I didn't have a cd player or radio at the time and jsut thinking about playing my cds on it was rewarding enough. the game selection was vast as well. The PS lasted until the ps2 was first launched , granted it was in its dying days cause in order to play it I had to put the cd in and then turn the system upside down.

I've played the Xbox and gamecube. The gamecube is a good system but the lack of mature titles and online play really hurt it . The xbox has some good games but imo it is relying on a mediocre game to sell good . I'm talking about Halo , it was a good game but nothing to go out and by an xbox over. The only satisfying factor was online but for me that was another drawback to the xbox. I'm a cheap motherfucker and with Sony offering the online play free of charge were as Microsoft charges for it. that and the extensive game list for the ps2 is what made me choose it over the other consoles.

Like Zero I feel Nintendo should change their thinking and add online support and more mature titles

Xbox - I dunno what could be done for me to like it . to me it seems that all the games on the xbox seems to focus mainly on online play.Most of the games I see advertised for xbox are always talking about xbox live.

PS2- If sony would put better internal hardware in there systems they should reign supreme in the game world

if they keep it up with the PSP they could possible dominate Nintendo in the portable gaming market

[Guest Grapehead]

Nintendo will definatly be offering online play with the new gens, it's been talked about and discussed by them, and I read it off gamespot's news.

[zero]

Nintendo will definatly be offering online play with the new gens, it's been talked about and discussed by them, and I read it off gamespot's news.

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It looks like they're doing it with the DS, but I still hear people from Nintendo spouting out, "The customer does not want online play."

[MalaCloudy Black]

So, steering away from the stupid "omg this console > that one" and all the essays that I don't wanna read, and back on topic.

I'll probably wait until console prices go down and get a PS3. Not because it's Sony or anything, but because it seems like Sony usually gets games earlier than the other consoles and it has more games that I like. or something.

[Guest Grapehead]

Nintendo will definatly be offering online play with the new gens, it's been talked about and discussed by them, and I read it off gamespot's news.

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It looks like they're doing it with the DS, but I still hear people from Nintendo spouting out, "The customer does not want online play."

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[zero]

Nintendo will definatly be offering online play with the new gens, it's been talked about and discussed by them, and I read it off gamespot's news.

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It looks like they're doing it with the DS, but I still hear people from Nintendo spouting out, "The customer does not want online play."

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Where do you hear this?

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Various magazine and internet articles. It looks like the Revolution is going to go Wi-Fi like the DS, but nothing's been confirmed yet.