Charlotte Bobcats

[sahyder1]

Just because the Raptors went on to draft VC and TMAC, that doesn't mean that Charlotte is going to do the same thing.

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ALL-TIME NBA EXPANSION DRAFT RESULTS

1995 NBA EXPANSION DRAFT (June 24, 1995)

    * TORONTO

      1. B.J. Armstrong, Chicago; 3. Tony Massenburg, L.A. Clippers; 5. Andres Guibert, Minnesota; 7. Keith Jennings, Golden State; 9. Dontonio Wingfield, Seattle; 11. Doug Smith, Dallas; 13. Jerome Kersey, Portland; 15. Zan Tabak, Houston; 17. Willie Anderson, San Antonio; 19. Ed Pinckney, Milwaukee; 21. Acie Earl, Boston; 23. B.J. Tyler, Philadelphia; 25. John Salley, Miami; 27. Oliver Miller, Detroit.

    * VANCOUVER

      2. Greg Anthony, New York; 4. Rodney Dent, Orlando; 6. Antonio Harvey, L.A. Lakers; 8. Reggie Slater, Denver; 10. Trevor Ruffin, Phoenix; 12. Derrick Phelps, Sacramento; 14. Larry Stewart, Washington; 16. Kenny Gattison, Charlotte; 18. Byron Scott, Indiana; 20. Gerald Wilkins, Cleveland; 22. Benoit Benjamin, New Jersey; 24. Doug Edwards, Atlanta; 26. Theodore Edwards, Utah.

1989 NBA EXPANSION DRAFT (June 15, 1989)

    * ORLANDO

      1. Sidney Green, New York; 3. Reggie Theus, Atlanta; 5. Terry Catledge, Washington; 7. Sam Vincent, Chicago; 9. Otis Smith, Golden State; 11. Scott Skiles, Indiana; 13. Jerry Reynolds, Seattle; 15. Mark Acres, Boston; 17. Morlon Wiley, Dallas; 19. Jim Farmer, Utah; 21. Keith Lee, New Jersey; 23. Frank Johnson, Houston.

    * MINNESOTA

      2. Rick Mahorn, Detroit; 4. Tyrone Corbin, Phoenix; 6. Steve Johnson, Portland; 8. Brad Lohaus, Sacramento; 10. David Rivers, L.A. Lakers; 12. Mark Davis, Milwaukee; 14. Scott Roth, San Antonio; 16. Shelton Jones, Philadelphia; 18. Eric White, L.A. Clippers; 20. Maurice Martin, Denver; 22. Gunther Behnke, Cleveland.

1988 NBA EXPANSION DRAFT (June 23, 1988)

    * MIAMI

      1. Arvid Kramer, Dallas; 3. Billy Thompson, L.A. Lakers; 5. Fred Roberts, Boston; 7. Scott Hastings, Atlanta; 9. Jon Sundvold, San Antonio; 11. Kevin Williams, Seattle; 13. Hansi Gnad, Philadelphia; 15. Darnell Valentine, L.A. Clippers; 17. Dwayne Washington, New Jersey; 19. Andre Turner, Houston; 21. Conner Henry, Sacramento; 23. John Stroeder, Milwaukee.

    * CHARLOTTE

      2. Dell Curry, Cleveland; 4. Dave Hoppen, Golden State; 6. Tyrone Bogues, Washington; 8. Mike Brown, Chicago; 10. Rickey Green, Utah; 12. Michael Holton, Portland; 14. Michael Brooks, Denver; 16. Bernard Thompson, Phoenix; 18. Ralph Lewis, Detroit; 20. Clinton Wheeler, Indiana; 22. Sedric Toney, New York.

1980 NBA EXPANSION DRAFT (May 28, 1980)

    * DALLAS

      Del Beshore, Chicago; Winford Boynes, New Jersey; Alonzo Bradley, Houston; Mike Bratz, Phoenix; Marty Byrnes, Los Angeles; Austin Carr, Cleveland; Jim Cleamons, Washington; Terry Duerod, Detroit; Jack Givens, Atlanta; Joe Hassett, Indiana; Geoff Huston, New York; Abdul Jeelani, Portland; Jeff Judkins, Boston; Arvid Kramer, Denver; Tom LaGarde, Seattle; Billy McKinney, Kansas City; Wiley Peck, San Antonio; Bingo Smith, San Diego; Jim Spanarkel, Philadelphia; Raymond Townsend, Golden State; Richard Washington, Milwaukee; Jerome Whitehead, Utah.

1974 NBA EXPANSION DRAFT (May 20, 1974)

    * NEW ORLEANS

      Jim Barnett, Golden State; Walt Bellamy, Atlanta; John Block, KC-Omaha; E.C. Coleman, Houston; Lamar Green, Phoenix; Nate Hawthorne, Los Angeles; Ollie Johnson, Portland; Toby Kimball, Philadelphia; Steve Kuberski, Boston; Stu Lantz, Detroit; Louie Nelson, Washington; Curtis Perry, Milwaukee; Bud Stallworth, Seattle; Bob Kauffman, Buffalo.

1970 NBA EXPANSION DRAFT (May 11, 1970)

    * BUFFALO

      Emmett Bryant, Boston; Fred Crawford, Milwaukee; Dick Garrett, Los Angeles; Herm Gilliam, Cincinnati; Bill Hosket, New York; Bailey Howell, Boston; Paul Long, Detroit; Mike Flynn, Los Angeles; Don May, New York; Ray Scott, Baltimore; George Wilson, Philadelphia.

    * CLEVELAND

      Butch Beard, Atlanta; Len Chappell, Milwaukee; Johnny Egan, Los Angeles; Bobby Lewis, San Francisco; McCoy McLemore, Detroit; Don Ohl, Atlanta; Loy Petersen, Chicago; Luther Rackley, Cincinnati; Bobby Smith, San Diego; John Warren, New York; Walt Wesley, Chicago.

    * PORTLAND

      Rick Adelman, San Diego; Jerry Chambers, Phoenix; LeRoy Ellis, Baltimore; Fred Hetzel, Philadelphia; Joe Kennedy, Seattle; Ed Manning, Chicago; Stan McKenzie, Phoenix; Dorie Murrey, Seattle; Pat Riley, San Diego; Dale Schlueter, San Francisco; Larry Siegfried, Boston.

1968 NBA EXPANSION DRAFT (May 6, 1968)

    * MILWAUKEE

      Len Chappell, Detroit; Larry Costello, Philadelphia; John Egan, Baltimore; Wayne Embry, Boston; Dave Gambee, San Diego; Gary Gray, Cincinnati; Fred Hetzel, San Francisco; Johnny Jones, Boston; Bob Love, Cincinnati; Jon McGlocklin, San Diego; Jay Miller, St. Louis; Bud Olsen, Seattle; George Patterson, Detroit; Jim Reid, Philadelphia; Guy Rodgers, Cincinnati; Tom Thacker, Boston; Bob Warlick, San Francisco; Bob Weiss, Seattle.

    * PHOENIX

      John Barnhill, San Diego; Emmette Bryant, New York; Gail Goodrich, Los Angeles; Dennis Hamilton, Los Angeles; Neil Johnson, New York; David Lattin, San Francisco; Paul Long, Detroit; Stan McKenzie, Baltimore; McCoy McLemore, Chicago; Bill Melchionni, Philadelphia; David Schellhase, Chicago; Dick Snyder, Atlanta; Craig Spitzer, Chicago; Gene Tormohlen, Atlanta; Dick Van Arsdale, New York; Roland West, Baltimore; John Wetzel, Los Angeles; George Wilson, Seattle.

1967 NBA EXPANSION DRAFT (May 1, 1967)

    * SAN DIEGO

      Jim Barnett, Boston; John Barnhill, Baltimore; John Block, Los Angeles; Henry Finkel, Los Angeles; Dave Gambee, Philadelphia; Johnny Green, Baltimore; Toby Kimball, Boston; Don Kojis, Chicago; Jon McGlocklin, Cincinnati; Jim Ware, Cincinnati.

    * SEATTLE

      Henry Akin, New York; Nate Bowman, Philadelphia; Dave Deutsch, New York; Richie Guerin, St. Louis; Walt Hazzard, Los Angeles; Tom Kron, St. Louis; Tom Meschery, San Francisco; Dorie Murrey, Detroit; Bud Olsen, San Francisco; Ron Reed, Detroit; Rod Thorn, St. Louis; Ben Warley, Baltimore; Ron Watts, Boston; Bob Weiss, Philadelphia; George Wilson, Chicago.

1966 NBA EXPANSION DRAFT (April 30, 1966)

    * CHICAGO

      John Barnhill, Detroit; Al Bianchi, Philadelphia; Ron Bonham, Boston; Bob Boozer, Los Angeles; Nate Bowman, Cincinnati; Len Chappell, New York; Barry Clemens, New York; Keith Erickson, San Francisco; John Kerr, Baltimore; Jim King, Los Angeles; Don Kojis, Detroit; McCoy McLemore, San Francisco; Jeff Mullins, St. Louis; Jerry Sloan, Baltimore; Tom Thacker, Cincinnati; John Thompson, Boston; Gerry Ward, Phildelphia; Jim Washington, St. Louis.

I'd say some big names have passed through this expansion franchises, have they not? Let's stick to the recent ones for now. I say Orlando did fairly well with Shaq and Penny and got to the Finals. The T-Wolves had KG about 6 years in. The Heat had a great run in the 90s. The Hornets were huge in Charlotte for years.

Seriously, how old are you people? You'd think you would've seen enoug expansion teams in the 4 sports to have learned by now.

Edited June 23, 2004 by sahyder1

[naiwf]

And the likelihood of Charlotte getting the # 1 pick back to back years and being able to pick Shaq and Penny is what? 1 in 10 million? KG would be a # 1 pick these days since there's no stigma to drafting a kid out of HS. You're arguing that Charlotte is going to follow that plan when there are no sure fire bets in the draft anymore. Why don't you list all the abysmal picks that those franchises have made? or the trade that saw Charlotte give away Kobe for Vlade Divac? It's really easy to argue a point in hindsight and neglect to talk about the negatives.

Charlotte already made a blunder as people have said by not drafting a PG. Instead, they went the cheap route and drafted a bunch of guys with dirt poor contracts while a guy like Chucky Atkins was there relatively cheap. I'll list more info on Bob Johnson in a minute.

[Guest bukkake bandit]

95% of those expansion draftees are terrible. But I'm really curious as to who was available in those expansion drafts. In this one, you had plenty of 'good' players to choose from. And not a single one was chosen. Take Kittles, or Houston, or Jones. You're not going to get to the Finals or even East Finals with Kittles and a #2 draft choice, but it's a lot better than creating a hopeless team and when they win 15 games in a terrible conference you can say, "well, we'll compete in a couple years."

If you make the playoffs, great. If you don't, at least you tried.

[sahyder1]

And the likelihood of Charlotte getting the # 1 pick back to back years and being able to pick Shaq and Penny is what? 1 in 10 million? KG would be a # 1 pick these days since there's no stigma to drafting a kid out of HS. You're arguing that Charlotte is going to follow that plan when there are no sure fire bets in the draft anymore. Why don't you list all the abysmal picks that those franchises have made? or the trade that saw Charlotte give away Kobe for Vlade Divac? It's really easy to argue a point in hindsight and neglect to talk about the negatives.

Charlotte already made a blunder as people have said by not drafting a PG. Instead, they went the cheap route and drafted a bunch of guys with dirt poor contracts while a guy like Chucky Atkins was there relatively cheap.  I'll list more info on Bob Johnson in a minute.

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No sure bets anymore? That depends on who you ask. It's up to teams to dig out who they want. I say Yao turned out pretty well....same with Amare. Both were relative unknowns to the North American crowd. Add Parker to the list. The Bulls were idiotic in drafting Chandler and Curry and the Wizards were just as dumb. Battier should've been the #1 pick that year but Jordan had his Duke/UNC bias and paid for it. The Bulls were sold on getting 2 out of the 3 Highschoolers no matter what. The Grizzles came out with Gasol and Battier in that draft. Just because certain excetuvies make idiotic moves that doesn't make the path to greatness impossible. What does this have to do with today's expansion draft anyways? You still haven't answered my question as to what you would've drafted. Or comment on how the expansion drafts for all 4 major sports have turned out in the past decade or so.

[SeanB]

Wouldn't they rather just sit back for a couple of years and then build around a young nucleus. Look at what the Grizzles did.....and look at how deep that team is now.

He's absolutely right. Charlotte did the right thing by taking lots of young guys, and with given time who will improve as a team and eventually envolve into something great. Just take the Memphis Grizzlies for example. For years and years, they were terrible. Up until last season, they began to be competetive. Then this year they marched all the way into the playoffs.

Picking up Chucky Atkins would have been ok, but Charlotte can sign a PG off the free-agent market or trade for one via the draft. You people sound like you expect this team to come in right away and be great. Well it's not going to happen in the NBA. As someone stated before, they want you to enjoy hardships before recieving any success.

[cthemason]

And it took how long for the Griz to make the playoffs?

[naiwf]

The assumption that's being made is that Charlotte's management wants the team to become a winning franchise. I'm trying to argue that Charlotte's management simply wants to make money, ala the L.A. Clippers under Sterling. Here's some more info. . .

How can rich guys be cheap? Ask Donald Sterling who has tons of wealth but never spent any of it improving the Clippers until he gave Elton Brand a big contract. Or the countless owners in Major League Baseball who deposit millions annually from collective bargaining while fielding a team of AA level players. Bob Johnson will make money off of the Bobcats simply because the team is new, but that doesn't mean he's going to (re)invest it back into the team, because he only cares about making money. There were a lot of prominent black people in the league/media who didn't want him to become the first African-American to own an NBA team because of the way he sold off BET and the way he's done some of his business.

What About the Black Workers?

Bob Johnson and BET President Debra Lee got five-year contracts with Viacom, but almost nothing has been said about the approximately 500 other BET employees. When larger firms buy up smaller firms in their market, the usual fallout is huge layoffs of redundant employees. If I were working behind the camera at BET, I would really be worried about getting a pink surprise in my pay packet around the holiday season. This would be especially true if I worked for the BET restaurants, magazines, pay-per-view channel, or film studios. These money-losing operations were not part of the Viacom deal.

On the other hand, Johnson had fought vigorously against unions at BET for 20 years. But Viacom operates its entertainment shops by union rules. We assume it will extend the same terms to BET employees. Bob Johnson should hang his head in shame that his former employees have to look to a White company to get a fair deal for the first time. (For details see: www.afrikan.net/hype/labor.html.)

From another article: Johnson, the founder and chief executive officer of the company, sold BET to Viacom on Jan. 23, 2001, for $3 billion, $2.5 billion in stock and $500 million in assumed debt. He owned 63 percent of BET, the company he started in 1979. . . . BET also announced that effective immediately, 40 employees, 12 percent of its 350-person workforce will be dismissed. Some of the employees were given a few minutes to gather their belongings on Wednesday and were escorted off the company property by security guards.

Here's another: To a certain extent, he is a race man, a walking contradiction," Pulley said of black America's most successful male media mogul. That could be an understatement. While Johnson has made millionaires of a loyal cadre that has stuck with him, Pulley's book also shows that:

* "The company has been successful despite three separate scandals involving executives who served as BET's top financial officers. One of them went to prison, and another has accused Johnson of improperly avoiding taxes."

* "After a small group of founding executives became millionaires as a result of BET's growth, Johnson forced most of them to resign."

* Johnson fired his own wife, Sheila Johnson, from BET.

* Johnson engaged "in personal relationships with top female executives at his company. His now ex-wife, Sheila Johnson learned of one affair when she was subpoenaed to testify in a lawsuit against the company. Another executive who he had an affair with, Debra Lee, is now the president and chief executive officer of BET."

* Johnson's own sister, who was one of the company's first employees, sued him and settled for more than $1 million.

* Pulley, also writes that Johnson originally envisioned high-minded programming, but succumbed to the lucre made available by devoting more and more time to music videos supplied for free by the record companies. It is consistent with Johnson's philosophy of money first and social responsibility . . . whenever.

There's more, but I think this is sufficient to develop a pattern of behavior. It's all about $$$ for Bob. Unless he suddenly has an epiphany, look for the Bobcats to be run as a cash cow, not a serious championship contender any time under his regime.

[DMN in the House]

sahyder, I wouldn't be talking about Expansion teams in the 4 major sports, because Carolina and Jacksonville were both VERY competitive in not only their first year, but years after. Carolina then had some problems not entirely under their control (specifically the death of Fred Lane), but Jacksonville continued to be competitive, being one of the best teams of the late 90s, early 2000s. Cleveland, after undergoing bad early return woes has made the playoffs and remains competitive, although they had some bad player selections in the draft, which hampered them. Even Houston, though not having the record to back it up, was competitive in their first two years, and now looks like a team on the verge of being good.

Leave the NFL out of it, because its obvious that you don't know what your talking about.

[sahyder1]

sahyder, I wouldn't be talking about Expansion teams in the 4 major sports, because Carolina and Jacksonville were both VERY competitive in not only their first year, but years after. Carolina then had some problems not entirely under their control (specifically the death of Fred Lane), but Jacksonville continued to be competitive, being one of the best teams of the late 90s, early 2000s. Cleveland, after undergoing bad early return woes has made the playoffs and remains competitive, although they had some bad player selections in the draft, which hampered them. Even Houston, though not having the record to back it up, was competitive in their first two years, and now looks like a team on the verge of being good.

Leave the NFL out of it, because its obvious that you don't know what your talking about.

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and you should know that the NFL changed the expansion rules after Carolina Jacksonville came in. I don't know what the cap is for expansion teams in the NFL but the Browns and Texans weren't exactly top of the line teams straight out. NFL is a different story anywas because look at the parity across the league. Not many expansion teams in history have been like the Diamondbacks. Just go across the 90s and take a closer look at all the expansion teams.

Edited June 23, 2004 by sahyder1

[naiwf]

And there's also the Diamondbacks who won the World Series in their 4th year, and have 3 division titles in 6 seasons or the Marlins who won it all in their 5th year and have 2 Championships to their credit in just 11 seasons during the Yankees Dynasty to boot.

[DMN in the House]

So... basically.. just the NBA... and to a lesser extent the NHL, and to be fair, we can throw the Tampa Bay Devil Rays in there.

So... basically... you don't have a leg to stand on. Charlotte did a HORRIBLE job drafting, because cheap, potential superstars like Juan Dixon and Qyentl Woods(sp?) were available.

[sahyder1]

And there's also the Diamondbacks who won the World Series in their 4th year, and have 3 division titles in 6 seasons or the Marlins who won it all in their 5th year and have 2 Championships to their credit in just 11 seasons during the Yankees Dynasty to boot.

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The Marlins rented that team for half a year. They were done again the year after like they were the 5 years before then. Way to be selective with your argument. The D-Backs had no cap restrictions and were lucky enough to find RJ on the FA market. The 2nd Marlin Championship is a decade after they came into the league. Might as well give the Jays credit for their 2 W.S as expansion success then.

So... basically.. just the NBA... and to a lesser extent the NHL, and to be fair, we can throw the Tampa Bay Devil Rays in there.

So... basically... you don't have a leg to stand on. Charlotte did a HORRIBLE job drafting, because cheap, potential superstars like Juan Dixon and Qyentl Woods(sp?) were available.

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They wouldn't be able to sign those guys because of cap restrictions anyways....so what exactly is the point? Aren't they both FAs after next season?

As for the expansion teams the Rockies came in the 90s too. A lot of success they've had. Even go to the NBA what exactly have the Heat and T-Wolves managed to accomplish in over a decade? I seriously don't know how old you guys are but you're acting like you've never seen an expansion team in pro sports and how it works. Go take a closer look at what the Grizzles drafted on their expansion roster and look at how deep that team is now.

Edited June 23, 2004 by sahyder1

[gunnar hendershow]

The Rockies made the playoffs in 95 IIRC. That lineup was mainly their expansion draft.

[sahyder1]

The Rockies made the playoffs in 95 IIRC.  That lineup was mainly their expansion draft.

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http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/COL/

Rockies, year by year.

[naiwf]

It's funny how sahyder argued that no expansion team in the 4 major sports was successful early on, but when given a half dozen teams who did so within their first 5-8 years, that's not good enough. Just tell us what we all should think, and we'll all comply from now on, fair enough?

[thuganomic]

Just to sum things up:

Nobody is arguing that the Bobcats should be competitive next year. There's no way. However, there is a way for the franchise to give off an aura that they are trying to win, and they are trying to please their fans. The Bobcats, thus far, have not done either. While the salary cap is one of those reasons, missing out on guys like Woods and Dixon is inexcusable considering the fact that they took similar guys with similar contracts who blow. This team won't even be competitive in the WNBA or CBA.

[DMN in the House]

They wouldn't be able to sign those guys because of cap restrictions anyways....so what exactly is the point? Aren't they both FAs after next season?

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I've done my homework, on Woods at least. He's contracted to make 1.2 million next year, with a team option of (can't remember exactly) either 1.3 or 1.6 mill next year about the same as several WORSE players they picked up, and averaged 27 points in Summer League. He's got potential, and having never been given a chance, might be loyal enough to the team that gave him that chance to stay.

[sahyder1]

It's funny how sahyder argued that no expansion team in the 4 major sports was successful early on, but when given a half dozen teams who did so within their first 5-8 years, that's not good enough. Just tell us what we all should think, and we'll all comply from now on, fair enough?

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there have been about twice as many teams that prove my point then ones that prove yours. I already gave broke down the Marlins, Panthers and Jags for you. Look at the Rockies overall in their franchise history.

Just to sum things up:

Nobody is arguing that the Bobcats should be competitive next year. There's no way. However, there is a way for the franchise to give off an aura that they are trying to win, and they are trying to please their fans. The Bobcats, thus far, have not done either. While the salary cap is one of those reasons, missing out on guys like Woods and Dixon is inexcusable considering the fact that they took similar guys with similar contracts who blow. This team won't even be competitive in the WNBA or CBA.

Like I said before fans in Charlotte are smart enough to know what's going on. They aren't trying to win right now and the fans know it, they know it's a long term thing. Heck, they even gave the same guy the GM/Head Coach title because they wanted to make sure they have the same plan for the first 4-5 years. You'll see sell outs in Charlotte next year because these fans do know what the heck is going on. They'll stick it out.

This team WILL be in the playoffs Year 4.

[punky]

Yes, drafting some young guys is a good idea. Nobody is saying that it isn't. But when your entire expansion draft consists of unproven guys, when there were relatively cheap veterans out there with contracts that are workable, even with only being able to use 66% of the salary cap.

Sure, drafting all of these young guys could turn out to be a good fit and trading some of them off for future pick is all well and good. But just what are you telling your fans, when you draft guys that haven't even started more than 10-20 games in their entire pro careers?

And yes, the offseason is still in full swing with Charlotte trying to make a run at some free agents. But what big time free agent is going to come there and play with a bunch of young kids, with no experience?

Go back and look at those NBA expansion teams you listed and there are at least 2-3 veterans in that group for the time frame.

Bickerstaff & Johnson are right in drafting cheap guys but how about getting a few veterans in the expansion draft, since it's the best and probably ONLY time, you'll get them to come there unless you're offering them way over their market value?

Bottome line: Charlotte could've done alot better in the expansion draft but they decided to take all youngsters and basically sealed the deal on not being competitive in the next three years, unless these kids all turn into a good-to-great players.

Edited June 23, 2004 by CM Punk

[sahyder1]

They are NOT going to make a run at any free agents because of the cap space. They have 3 picks in tomorrow's draft plus they acquired a future first rounder. The picks from the from the first 3 years will be huge for this franchise.