The Comic Book Thread (spoilers)

[Guest Mr. T]

I pity the fool who hasn't read at least some Avengers in their lifetime (preferably Stern or Busiek).

Reading the series from the beginning, it's amazing how much better it got the moment the lineup changed in #16.

[TGC]

I pity the fool who hasn't read at least some Avengers in their lifetime (preferably Stern or Busiek).

Reading the series from the beginning, it's amazing how much better it got the moment the lineup changed in #16.

Having read a shitload of Avengers over the years, I have to say that Stern's run sits as my favorite of all time, with The Vision storyand The Masters Of Evil tale being my two faves during his run. Busiek's run was brilliant, but I always thought his ancilliary tale, Avengers Forever, was far better than anything he did in the main book. Steve Engelhart, Roy Thomas, and David Michelinie also had great runs. I would have to count Geoff Johns and Chuck Austen's runs as two of the all time worst though. Austen's was just ridiculously bad, whereas Johns run suffered from the all the rage at the time Marvel way of forcing storylines to run six or so issues to fill a trade. It didn't help at all that John's run was made totally moot by BMB afterwards when BMB took all the hard work Johns had done with Ant Man (Scott Lang) and Jack Of Hearts and rendered it obsolete when he killed them both in a manner of a few panels in the first issue of his run. Which actually leads meto saying that despite the sales, BMB's run on The Avengers is also amongst the absolute worst in my humble opinion.

[Cadet Ember McLain]

Is there any coherent comic order to Deadpool's story?

[Heel Turn]

I pity the fool who hasn't read at least some Avengers in their lifetime (preferably Stern or Busiek).

Reading the series from the beginning, it's amazing how much better it got the moment the lineup changed in #16.

Having read a shitload of Avengers over the years, I have to say that Stern's run sits as my favorite of all time, with The Vision storyand The Masters Of Evil tale being my two faves during his run. Busiek's run was brilliant, but I always thought his ancilliary tale, Avengers Forever, was far better than anything he did in the main book. Steve Engelhart, Roy Thomas, and David Michelinie also had great runs. I would have to count Geoff Johns and Chuck Austen's runs as two of the all time worst though. Austen's was just ridiculously bad, whereas Johns run suffered from the all the rage at the time Marvel way of forcing storylines to run six or so issues to fill a trade. It didn't help at all that John's run was made totally moot by BMB afterwards when BMB took all the hard work Johns had done with Ant Man (Scott Lang) and Jack Of Hearts and rendered it obsolete when he killed them both in a manner of a few panels in the first issue of his run. Which actually leads meto saying that despite the sales, BMB's run on The Avengers is also amongst the absolute worst in my humble opinion.

[TGC]

I pity the fool who hasn't read at least some Avengers in their lifetime (preferably Stern or Busiek).

Reading the series from the beginning, it's amazing how much better it got the moment the lineup changed in #16.

Having read a shitload of Avengers over the years, I have to say that Stern's run sits as my favorite of all time, with The Vision storyand The Masters Of Evil tale being my two faves during his run. Busiek's run was brilliant, but I always thought his ancilliary tale, Avengers Forever, was far better than anything he did in the main book. Steve Engelhart, Roy Thomas, and David Michelinie also had great runs. I would have to count Geoff Johns and Chuck Austen's runs as two of the all time worst though. Austen's was just ridiculously bad, whereas Johns run suffered from the all the rage at the time Marvel way of forcing storylines to run six or so issues to fill a trade. It didn't help at all that John's run was made totally moot by BMB afterwards when BMB took all the hard work Johns had done with Ant Man (Scott Lang) and Jack Of Hearts and rendered it obsolete when he killed them both in a manner of a few panels in the first issue of his run. Which actually leads meto saying that despite the sales, BMB's run on The Avengers is also amongst the absolute worst in my humble opinion.

Just chiming in to say that Stern's run was nothing short of epic. The way he dealt with the individual relationships between the team members and the way he wasn't afraid to shake up the status quo still makes Stern's run on Avengers pretty much my favorite run on anything, ever. It's equivalent in my mind to Miller's run on Daredevil and Simonson's run on Thor in runs that'll never be equaled.

It's funny you should mention that. Looking at Marvel only, I would throw out these titles and writers/teams that were in my mind the best those books ever were:

Avengers: Roger Stern and John Buscema

Thor: Walt Simonson

Fantastic Four: John Byrne

Iron Man: David Michelinie and Bob Layton

Amazing Spider-Man: Stan Lee and John Romita Sr. and/or Roger Stern and John Romita Jr.

Daredevil: Frank Miller

Hulk: Peter David and Gary Frank

X-Men: Chris Claremont and John Byrne

Captain America: Ed Brubaker and Steve Epting

But yeah, Roger Stern's entire multi year run on The Avengers, and including his WCA mini series were brilliant. Just great storytelling. I wish Marvel would put out a series of visionnaire trades collecting the entire run.

[Heel Turn]

I pity the fool who hasn't read at least some Avengers in their lifetime (preferably Stern or Busiek).

Reading the series from the beginning, it's amazing how much better it got the moment the lineup changed in #16.

Having read a shitload of Avengers over the years, I have to say that Stern's run sits as my favorite of all time, with The Vision storyand The Masters Of Evil tale being my two faves during his run. Busiek's run was brilliant, but I always thought his ancilliary tale, Avengers Forever, was far better than anything he did in the main book. Steve Engelhart, Roy Thomas, and David Michelinie also had great runs. I would have to count Geoff Johns and Chuck Austen's runs as two of the all time worst though. Austen's was just ridiculously bad, whereas Johns run suffered from the all the rage at the time Marvel way of forcing storylines to run six or so issues to fill a trade. It didn't help at all that John's run was made totally moot by BMB afterwards when BMB took all the hard work Johns had done with Ant Man (Scott Lang) and Jack Of Hearts and rendered it obsolete when he killed them both in a manner of a few panels in the first issue of his run. Which actually leads meto saying that despite the sales, BMB's run on The Avengers is also amongst the absolute worst in my humble opinion.

Just chiming in to say that Stern's run was nothing short of epic. The way he dealt with the individual relationships between the team members and the way he wasn't afraid to shake up the status quo still makes Stern's run on Avengers pretty much my favorite run on anything, ever. It's equivalent in my mind to Miller's run on Daredevil and Simonson's run on Thor in runs that'll never be equaled.

[Vilge Duin]

Is there any coherent comic order to Deadpool's story?

[Johnny Latino Heat]

Is there any coherent comic order to Deadpool's story?

What do you mean coherent?

He debuted in New Warriors #98 and had sporadic appearances from then on. Had his two mini series Circle Chase and Sins of the Past. Got his own series in 1997 which continued on until it turned into (but isn't exactly Deadpool). He then had his second ongoing, now with Cable, Cable & Deadpool.

There's off course random shit tossed out there. The Wizard #0. The Daredevil/Deadpool anniversary thing, Baby's First Deadpool Book, Encyclopedia Deadpoolica, Marvel Team Up: Deadpool and Widdle Wade, and that's about it to y recollection. Plus numerous cameos and guest appearances in other's books. Oh and that GLA/Deadpool Summer Funtime Special last year.

But I don't quite get what you mean coherent.

[Gabriel]

Which is correct. Deadpool was a thorn in the side of the New Mutants/X-Force and Cable for some time before launching his own montly series, and then going on to team up with Cable.

Speaking of which, the Cable series is pretty interesting. Some of the issues aren't so great, and it's hard as fuck to try and keep all his shit in chronological order, but it's a good read.

[TGC]

Yes New Mutants, X-Force, two minis, Deadpool ongoing, numerous one shots, Agent X, Cable and Deadpool, Wolverine Origins, new deadpool ongoing debuting later this year. His wiki page and his marvel wiki page are a lot of help on exactly what order things are to be read.

And Marvel Visionaires John Byrne FF is up to I think Volume 6 or 7, HT. The early ones are hard to find now, but they are out there. The FF reallyt struggled for a long time after Byrne left. Stern wasn't nearly as good as Byrne, Engelhart tried but his stuff was so very hit and miss, Simonson was great, but was better known for his NEW FF than the classics, DeFalco had Susan banging Namor and "killed" Doom and Reed, and then we got HEROES REBORN, which kinda blew. The first four issues by Lobdell on HEROES RETURN was great, but he was canned and Claremont was hired. He sucked, Loed sucked, and the book sucked until waid and Weiringo took over. They were great, but then JMS sucked a nd while McDuffie was good, he never got a chance to shine. And wow I can't believe I went through the entire run of the last 20 years of the FF.

[GhostMachine]

I pity the fool who hasn't read at least some Avengers in their lifetime (preferably Stern or Busiek).

Reading the series from the beginning, it's amazing how much better it got the moment the lineup changed in #16.

Having read a shitload of Avengers over the years, I have to say that Stern's run sits as my favorite of all time, with The Vision storyand The Masters Of Evil tale being my two faves during his run. Busiek's run was brilliant, but I always thought his ancilliary tale, Avengers Forever, was far better than anything he did in the main book. Steve Engelhart, Roy Thomas, and David Michelinie also had great runs. I would have to count Geoff Johns and Chuck Austen's runs as two of the all time worst though. Austen's was just ridiculously bad, whereas Johns run suffered from the all the rage at the time Marvel way of forcing storylines to run six or so issues to fill a trade. It didn't help at all that John's run was made totally moot by BMB afterwards when BMB took all the hard work Johns had done with Ant Man (Scott Lang) and Jack Of Hearts and rendered it obsolete when he killed them both in a manner of a few panels in the first issue of his run. Which actually leads meto saying that despite the sales, BMB's run on The Avengers is also amongst the absolute worst in my humble opinion.

Just chiming in to say that Stern's run was nothing short of epic. The way he dealt with the individual relationships between the team members and the way he wasn't afraid to shake up the status quo still makes Stern's run on Avengers pretty much my favorite run on anything, ever. It's equivalent in my mind to Miller's run on Daredevil and Simonson's run on Thor in runs that'll never be equaled.

[Heel Turn]

I pity the fool who hasn't read at least some Avengers in their lifetime (preferably Stern or Busiek).

Reading the series from the beginning, it's amazing how much better it got the moment the lineup changed in #16.

Having read a shitload of Avengers over the years, I have to say that Stern's run sits as my favorite of all time, with The Vision storyand The Masters Of Evil tale being my two faves during his run. Busiek's run was brilliant, but I always thought his ancilliary tale, Avengers Forever, was far better than anything he did in the main book. Steve Engelhart, Roy Thomas, and David Michelinie also had great runs. I would have to count Geoff Johns and Chuck Austen's runs as two of the all time worst though. Austen's was just ridiculously bad, whereas Johns run suffered from the all the rage at the time Marvel way of forcing storylines to run six or so issues to fill a trade. It didn't help at all that John's run was made totally moot by BMB afterwards when BMB took all the hard work Johns had done with Ant Man (Scott Lang) and Jack Of Hearts and rendered it obsolete when he killed them both in a manner of a few panels in the first issue of his run. Which actually leads meto saying that despite the sales, BMB's run on The Avengers is also amongst the absolute worst in my humble opinion.

Just chiming in to say that Stern's run was nothing short of epic. The way he dealt with the individual relationships between the team members and the way he wasn't afraid to shake up the status quo still makes Stern's run on Avengers pretty much my favorite run on anything, ever. It's equivalent in my mind to Miller's run on Daredevil and Simonson's run on Thor in runs that'll never be equaled.

It's funny you should mention that. Looking at Marvel only, I would throw out these titles and writers/teams that were in my mind the best those books ever were:

Avengers: Roger Stern and John Buscema

Thor: Walt Simonson

Fantastic Four: John Byrne

Iron Man: David Michelinie and Bob Layton

Amazing Spider-Man: Stan Lee and John Romita Sr. and/or Roger Stern and John Romita Jr.

Daredevil: Frank Miller

Hulk: Peter David and Gary Frank

X-Men: Chris Claremont and John Byrne

Captain America: Ed Brubaker and Steve Epting

But yeah, Roger Stern's entire multi year run on The Avengers, and including his WCA mini series were brilliant. Just great storytelling. I wish Marvel would put out a series of visionnaire trades collecting the entire run.

[GhostMachine]

One thing keeps me from putting Gruenwald's run high on my list of Cap authors: John Walker was still breathing at the end of Captain America #350. I hate USAgent with a vengeance, and it sucks that of the 3 legacy characters to pop up around that time (Thunderstrike and War Machine being the other two) he's the only one still around. (I hate USAgent because he's a Grade-A asshole, not because he's a Cap rip-off; I even call him Asshole America instead of USAgent sometimes.)

Gruenwald was one of the best writers Marvel ever had, and according to a few people (including John Byrne and Bob Layton), he was also their unofficial continuity cop.

[Benji]

The question of what will fill Matt Fraction’s writing schedule since The Order is ending with #10 has been answered. According to a new report on Marvel.com, Fraction, along with Salvador Larocca will helm a second, monthly Iron Man series, The Invincible Iron Man

Appropriately enough, the new series will launch in May (Iron Man hits theaters on May 2nd). The solicitation for the new debut issue reads:

THE INVINCIBLE IRON MAN #1

Written by MATT FRACTION

Pencils & 50/50 Cover by SALVADOR LARROCA

50/50 Cover by JOE QUESADA

A bold new ongoing series for the biggest hero of 2008!

IRON MAN! You know you love him! And as the summer's most anticipated movie boot-jets its way into theaters, here's the perfect jumping-on point for new readers and Iron Man fans alike!

Tony Stark – Iron Man, billionaire industrialist and director of S.H.I.E.L.D. – faces the most overwhelming challenge of his life. Ezekiel Stane, the son of Tony's late business rival and archenemy Obadiah, has set his sights, his genius and his considerable fortune on the task of destroying Tony Stark and Iron Man. What's worse, he's got Iron Man tech, and he's every bit Iron Man's equal and opposite…except younger, faster, smarter…and immeasurably evil.

Rising star writer Matt Fraction (IMMORTAL IRON FIST) and superstar artist Salvador Larroca (UNCANNY X-MEN) join forces to repulsor-ray your comic books to a cinder!

32 PGS./Rated T+ …$2.99

Hell, that might be one of my favourite potential teams in writing/art history, Fraction, the writer of two my favourite current ongoing books (Iron Fist and The Order, both of which are criminally under rated), Larocca, a master of beautiful art. I think I may well just have joygasmed.

[TGC]

Gruenwald's Cap run isso close to being the pinnacle on the character for me, but sadly the last few years were just beyond belief bad. Still, if Marvel ever gave him the Visionairiestrades I would buy each and every last one of them.

As for USAgent, yes he was an asshole but I dug him then and I do now.

Finally, I am so into the X-Men universe now it isn't funny. I have spent a considerable amount of money getting all of the appearances of X-23, the entire run of the most recent New Mutants and New X-Men Acadamy X, the trades for Uncanny and X-Men since Bru abd Cary took over, and X-Factor. Today I finally found New Mutants #7 so I am up to date. I havn't loved the X-Men corner of the Marvel universe this much since Kelly and seagle took over the two books back in 98.

[Benji]

Gruenwald's Cap run isso close to being the pinnacle on the character for me, but sadly the last few years were just beyond belief bad. Still, if Marvel ever gave him the Visionairiestrades I would buy each and every last one of them.

As for USAgent, yes he was an asshole but I dug him then and I do now.

Finally, I am so into the X-Men universe now it isn't funny. I have spent a considerable amount of money getting all of the appearances of X-23, the entire run of the most recent New Mutants and New X-Men Acadamy X, the trades for Uncanny and X-Men since Bru abd Cary took over, and X-Factor. Today I finally found New Mutants #7 so I am up to date. I havn't loved the X-Men corner of the Marvel universe this much since Kelly and seagle took over the two books back in 98.

I assume you finally saw the '12 Year Old Cap and Matt' I told you about then

Laura is such a great character, she's so much more than just Wolverine's little clone and for a character that's only five years old real world time, and a literal clone, to be so wonderfully independant but intertwined with their progenitor is wonderful.

[TGC]

Cap and Matt yes. Add Kiddie Kingpin in there too. That was odd, but the story was marvelous. Fun, violent, smart, and obviously setting the stage for kimura's return, which I have in the New X-Men trades. And yes, her character is already very well defined and independant despite coming from Logan. Man I wish I had bought and read those a year ago like I was planning to do and then just never did. Oh and NYX is a great little read too. Man I wanna see more of Kidon.

[Johnny Latino Heat]

Now, I don't think Countdown has been anything special, it's been kinda "meh", nothing too good, nothing too bad, either, but I'll be damned if I didn't mark out for Piper playing Queen's "The Show Must Go On"

Also, in Cable vs Deadpool #50, Deadpool telling Spider-Man he didn't need to make a deal with Mephisto to get a supporting cast and referring time discrepancies in Spidey was just brilliant.

[Benji]

Kick-Ass. Buy it.

Thank me later.

[Timmoru Suzuki]

I second that emotion. Kick ass kicked ass. That is all that needs to be said.