2009 MLB Season

[Meacon Keaton]

How can you say that taking steroids is worse than betting on your own team? Betting in games involving your own team brings huge questions about fixing and competitive effort. While steroids is using an unfair advantage to win, it's a lot better for the image and future of the game than the implication, or even the possible implication, that there might be any kind of losing intentionally.

Except he was betting on his team to win.

[Ananas]

No way Rose should get his suspension lifted before Joe Jackson. Especially since most of the evidence that has come out in the years indicates he probably had nothing to do with the Black Sox scandal. And I mean, the guy was a career .356 hitter.

[ACCBiggz]

No way Rose should get his suspension lifted before Joe Jackson. Especially since most of the evidence that has come out in the years indicates he probably had nothing to do with the Black Sox scandal. And I mean, the guy was a career .356 hitter.

There are some key differences:

1. Pete Rose is alive.

2. The people who watched Pete Rose play are still alive.

Those are the biggest two. Joe Jackson had sizeable arguments in the past, but it died out. If Rose got his ban lifted, I guarantee you that his would be lifted within the next 5 years after that. So I think instead of complaining, people who don't care about either should support Pete Rose because after his suspension is lifted, the talking points will shift to Joe Jackson rather promptly.

[GhostMachine]

The argument against Joe Jackson isn't that he took part in the Black Sox scandal, but that he knew what was going on and didn't say anything.

[ACCBiggz]

My thing with the Hall of Fame in all sports is that it's the Hall of Fame and not the Hall of Stats - And furthermore they are museums to the sports.

When walking through the BHOF you should be able to go up to Pete Rose's plaque and read about his legendary career, and then read about his post-playing career antics that got him the ban. You should be able to visit Joe Jackson's and learn about the Black Sox and the effects it forever had on baseball. You should be able to see Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa on the wall and read about how they rejuvenated baseball with one magical season - and then the impact of the so-called "Steroid Era".

[Meacon Keaton]

And that logic bites, too. Should we ban those that didn't use performance-enhancing drugs, but knew others were using it? The whole Joe Jackson case gets on me more than the Rose thing. Even though I think they both proved above and beyond they are Hall of Famers.

*In reference to GM's post. Though, I know that isn't your personal stance.

Edited July 28, 2009 by Razor RaMeacon Figurine

[GhostMachine]

And that logic bites, too. Should we ban those that didn't use performance-enhancing drugs, but knew others were using it? The whole Joe Jackson case gets on me more than the Rose thing. Even though I think they both proved above and beyond they are Hall of Famers.

*In reference to GM's post. Though, I know that isn't your personal stance.

The whole Black Sox scandal gets to me not just as a baseball fan, but because I'm a Reds fan; they got a tainted World Series win because of the whole thing.

It also goes to show just how much power owners had before the reserve clause was done away with. Justice was NOT done, because the whole scandal was Charles Comiskey's fault. The players agreed to throw the series because he was a cheap son of a bitch.

The movie Eight Men Out, which is about the scandal and is based on a book of the same name, is pretty good. However, it takes...liberties....with a few things. For instance, in the movie it makes Comiskey look more villainous; Eddie Cicotte was supposed to get a big bonus if he won 30 games, and in the film Comiskey has him benched after his 29th win so he wouldn't have to pay him. In real life, Cicotte got his 29th win near the end of the season, had one more start where he was ineffective, then only pitched a few innings during the last game of the season. (The Series started only a few days later; remember, they didn't have playoffs back then)

And I was wrong about Joe Jackson; it was Buck Weaver who supposedly knew what was going on but kept his mouth shut. Jackson was just screwed over, because there was no real proof that he was actually involved. In fact, one of the players who was involved later admitted that Jackson wasn't a participant. In fact, if you look at Shoeless Joe's stats for the Series, I can't figure out how anyone could even think he was involved. Jackson was more or less either tricked or threatened into claiming involvement. (He was illiterate, so he may have been tricked into signing a confession)

Charles Comiskey being in the Hall of Fame is a crime, in my opinion, because if he wasn't a cheap cocksucker the scandal never would have happened. (The team was called the "Black Sox" before the scandal because Comiskey made the players pay to have their own uniforms cleaned so many of them decided not to and just played in dirty uniforms)

Jackson should be in the Hall of Fame, in my opinion. And I can't see how MLB justified not reinstating him once Lefty Williams confessed that he hadn't been involved at all. The other players involved - including Buck Weaver - were justifiably banned, in my opinion.

[Meacon Keaton]

I swear I've read reports saying he was coaxed into signing a confession, hearing that the rest of the team was signing it, and being illiterate, signed it without actually knowing what the document was about.

Either way, the guy had twelve freakin' hits in the World Series. If that is him attempting to lose, I'd have love to have seen what he'd done if he wanted to win.

[Maxx]

Killed the other team and gotten banned from baseball.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't I suppose.

[ACCBiggz]

Phillies trade for Cliff Lee without giving up their 4 blue-chip prospects. If I were them I'd trade for Halladay now too, but that's just me.

Pirates ship players to Seattle.

[Meacon Keaton]

Phillies trade for Cliff Lee without giving up their 4 blue-chip prospects. If I were them I'd trade for Halladay now too, but that's just me.

If I hear, "Can't wait for the celebration parade for this year!" one more time today, I may break down and cry. All the front-running pricks in this city have gone from being doomsaying assholes to overconfident assholes. I'd love nothing more than to see Florida and Atlanta overtake them in the division now.

[MalaCloudy Black]

A little surprised Pirates & Jack Wilson parted ways.

[livid]

They've been trying to trade him for awhile, they just needed to find the right team after the negotiations to extend stopped after the Pirates wouldn't listen to a counter from him and Sanchez. It's a shame but it's a move that's probably better for them in the long term.

[MalaCloudy Black]

Oh, yeah, he just always seemed like a lifelong Pirate to me. Dunno why, but I just get that impression.

[livid]

He said a few times that he wanted to be and I know what you're saying, he seemed like a guy that genuinely wanted to stay there. His contract was just too large for what they're trying to do now and from that standpoint, it makes sense on their part since they need to look at the future which is what all of their trades (minus the Morgan for Milledge trade, I'm still not sure about that one) this year have been doing.

[Lowerdeck]

With the Phillies landing Lee (which helps my fantasy team), apparently now Boston is the lead runner to land Halladay. Last I heard was Buchholz, Bowden, and some SS spect (Westmoreland?). Not sure how I feel about giving up the two big pitchers though.

I really have a feeling Doc is staying in Toronto though.

Edited July 30, 2009 by Lowerdeck

[rocksta]

Phillies trade for Cliff Lee without giving up their 4 blue-chip prospects. If I were them I'd trade for Halladay now too, but that's just me.

If I hear, "Can't wait for the celebration parade for this year!" one more time today, I may break down and cry. All the front-running pricks in this city have gone from being doomsaying assholes to overconfident assholes. I'd love nothing more than to see Florida and Atlanta overtake them in the division now.

Fucker, I am one of those pricks.

With the Phillies landing Lee (which helps my fantasy team), apparently now Boston is the lead runner to land Halladay. Last I heard was Buchholz, Bowden, and some SS spect (Westmoreland?). Not sure how I feel about giving up the two big pitchers though.

I really have a feeling Doc is staying in Toronto though.

Westmoreland is an outfielder I think. But Bosox are denying that that offer is even on the table.

[Lowerdeck]

With the Phillies landing Lee (which helps my fantasy team), apparently now Boston is the lead runner to land Halladay. Last I heard was Buchholz, Bowden, and some SS spect (Westmoreland?). Not sure how I feel about giving up the two big pitchers though.

I really have a feeling Doc is staying in Toronto though.

Westmoreland is an outfielder I think. But Bosox are denying that that offer is even on the table.

I just remember seeing that earlier this afternoon on the Boston Globe website as a rumor going round.

Edited July 30, 2009 by Lowerdeck

[livid]

Yeah, it could've been Casey Kelly who's been a SS linked in the rumors.

And yeah now that the Phillies have Lee, I don't see Halladay going anywhere.

[ACCBiggz]

Add David Ortiz to the 2003 steroid list.