MLB Thread

[Guest kijlhumt]

We'll talk come playoff time.

The Red Sox seem to be everyone's sure pick, even though they never succeed under pressure.

[Miami Vice]

I'm not sold on the Yankees because of their rotation. I not sold on the Red Sox either, becasue of their bullpen and bottom 4 and 5 starters.

[naiwf]

We'll talk come playoff time.

The Red Sox seem to be everyone's sure pick, even though they never succeed under pressure.

←

And last year everyone thought we were nuts for picking the Marlins over the Yankees. They'll see we were right again when the Sox miss the WC spot by about 3 games since they'll have to rely on Lowe & Arroyo to win big games B)

[Guest kijlhumt]

LOS MARLINS~!

[Lowerdeck]

At least Arroyo hasn't been pitching too horribly lately.

I wish the Sox had picked up something better in the trade. But oh well, we'll live on. Hopefully we can hold off Anaheim and Texas to get the Wild Card.

[sahyder1]

Top 20 August Trades of all time.

No. 20. Aug. 21, 1987: The Pirates trade Rick Reuschel to the Giants for Jeff Robinson and Scott Medvin. One of his era's more underappreciated pitchers, Reuschel certainly was appreciated by Giants fans after arriving in late 1987. He not only went 5-3 and helped San Francisco fend off the Reds and Astros to win the NL West, he compiled 19-11 and 17-8 records the next two years and started an All-Star Game.

No. 19. Aug. 29, 1987: The Dodgers trade Rick Honeycutt to the Athletics for a player to be named later (Tim Belcher). This trade made little impact on that year's postseason, but it helped change the course of baseball's bullpen history. Principally a starter for most of his career, Honeycutt wound up over the next six years being used by A's manager Tony La Russa as a situational lefty reliever, often pitching to just one or two batters before exiting. Oakland's success in building its bullpen that way led to many other clubs catching on, and relief strategy has never been the same.

Ray Knight, left, and Gary Carter celebrate their 1986 World Series triumph.

No. 18. Aug. 28, 1984: The Astros trade Ray Knight to the Mets for three players to be named later (Gerald Young, Manuel Lee and Mitch Cook). Knight couldn't get the Mets to close the five-game deficit to the Cubs at the time of the trade, but two years later, Knight batted .298-11-76 for the Mets and was a playoff hero.

No. 17. Aug. 31, 1988: The Tigers trade Chris Hoiles and two players to be named later (Cesar Mejia and Robinson Garces) to Baltimore Orioles for Fred Lynn. Lynn didn't help the Tigers into the playoffs, but he did help change baseball's deadline-trading rules. After this deal, airline difficulties kept Lynn from reporting to Detroit by the midnight deadline. Today, the deadline refers to the time that the deal must be reported to the commissioner's office; the player may report thereafter.

No. 16. Aug. 6, 1998: The Blue Jays trade Randy Myers to the Padres for Brian Loyd. Myers didn't do much for the Padres -- that's the point. San Diego claimed him on waivers for the sole purpose of blocking his trade to the Braves, and wound up having to keep him (and his massive $13.6 million contract) covering the next two years. Injuries kept Myers from pitching in the major leagues after '98.

No. 15. Aug. 26, 2003: The Padres trade Jason Bay, Oliver Perez and a player to be named later (Corey Stewart) to the Pirates for Brian Giles. Many people thought that possible trades for Giles, a talented player on a good long-term contract, would be dead when he wasn't dealt by July 31. But the Padres swooped in, claimed Giles on waivers, and wound up making enough talent available for the Pirates to finally cut bait with their best player. Each side got what it wanted, as Giles has helped the Padres into contention this year, and Bay and Perez have become key, young members of the improving Pirates.

No. 14. Aug. 29, 1990: The Athletics trade Felix Jose, Stan Royer and Daryl Green to the Cardinals for Willie McGee. This one's great for the trivia buffs. McGee didn't do much to help the A's as they won their third straight division title, but at least he won a batting title. Huh? Well, McGee was hitting .335 for the Cardinals at the time of the deal. He had enough plate appearances to qualify for the NL crown, so he had to hope that no one passed him in September. No one did, so McGee became the first player ever to win a batting title in one league while playing in the other.

No. 13. Aug. 27, 1992: The Blue Jays trade Jeff Kent and a player to be named later (Ryan Thompson) to the Mets for David Cone. To this day, former Toronto GM Pat Gillick uses his acquisition of Cone as Exhibit A of what a post-deadline deal can do for a club -- and to its opponents. "I think it proves to the players, Hey, these guys want to win, they'll do what they can to win," Gillick once said. "That gives them a bit of an injection. I talked to Paul Molitor when he came to our club in '93, and he said it really took the air out of Milwaukee. He said that when Milwaukee heard we got Cone ... it hyped our guys up and it kind of deflated them a little bit." Cone helped the Blue Jays win the 1992 World Series, while Kent began to blossom in New York the following season.

No. 12. Aug. 31, 1992: The Rangers trade Ruben Sierra, Jeff Russell, Bobby Witt and cash to the Athletics for Jose Canseco. This was one of the biggest mega-deals of the 1990s. Having spent much of the past several years driving fast women and dating good-looking cars, Canseco -- one season removed from a monster 44-homer, 122-RBI season -- was dealt off to Texas for that team's own enigmatic superstar, Ruben Sierra, and two other players. As it turned out, Russell and Witt probably contributed more to Oakland's AL West run that year than did Sierra. Canseco did very little in Texas -- other than have a home run bounce off his head and tear his elbow ligament while pitching -- before moving on to Boston.

No. 11. Aug. 28, 1996: The Braves trade Ron Wright and a player to be named later (Jason Schmidt) to the Pirates for Denny Neagle. When the 1996 season began, the Braves wanted their top pitching prospect, Schmidt, to bolster their Maddux-Glavine-Smoltz rotation. It didn't happen; still inconsistent, Schmidt found himself back in the minors. Atlanta decided to go the trade route that August, and landed Neagle, at the time 14-6, 3.05 with the Pirates. Neagle didn't win a game in the playoffs for the Braves that year but won 20 during the 1997 season and 16 the following year. The Pirates didn't exactly reap many benefits from Schmidt -- it wasn't until his trade to the Giants in 2001 that he made good on the promise the Braves saw in '96.

Throughout this past week, as talk swirled about baseball's July 31 trading deadline, you couldn't read any report about prospective deals without being informed that, contrary to popular belief, July 31 isn't really the trading deadline -- that from Aug. 1 through 31 it's very possible that more significant trades will come, after teams jumped through the hoop of getting their players through waivers.

You know what?

They're right.

Bagwell

Smoltz

While an average of 15 trades have gone down in July since 1980, August has still averaged 10. And some of them, like last year's Brian Giles deal and a few others that changed the course of franchises -- did those Smoltz and Bagwell guys ever amount to anything? -- were some of the most notable of the year.

August trades generally gain their importance in three ways: By a contender gaining a veteran who impacts the pennant race, by that veteran helping over the next few years, or by the other team getting a minor league prospect who winds up blossoming into a star. This happens more often in August -- after the so-called trading deadline -- than most people realize.

With the all-time trade register courtesy of the otherworldly retrosheet.org, we'll count down the 20 most notable August trades since 1980. Below features the top 10.

No. 10. Aug. 28, 1983: The Braves trade $150,000 and three players to be named later (Brook Jacoby, Rick Behenna and Brett Butler) to the Indians for Len Barker. With an 8-13, 5.11 record at the time of this trade, Barker was not the pitcher who had pitched a perfect game two years before when the Braves acquired him to bolster their run at their second straight NL West title. The move bombed: Barker went 1-3 for the Braves, who lost out to the Dodgers in the race, while Jacoby and Butler became valuable players in Cleveland.

No. 9. Aug. 30, 1982: The Brewers trade cash and three players to be named later (Kevin Bass, Frank DiPino and Mike Madden) to the Astros for Don Sutton. At age 37, Sutton was still an effective pitcher, and proved it for the Brewers down the stretch. He went 4-1 in seven starts -- the last of which lives on in Milwaukee memory. He beat Jim Palmer and his Orioles in a do-or-die game on the final day of the season to win the American League East.

No. 8. Aug. 30, 1990: The Pirates traded Wes Chamberlain, Julio Peguero and a player to be named later (Tony Longmire) to the Phillies for Carmelo Martinez. Ah, Larry Doughty's infamous waiver snafu. During his complicated roster machinations, Doughty put Chamberlain, a well-regarded prospect, on waivers only to discover that they were -- uh-oh -- irrevocable. Faced with losing Chamberlain for nothing, he packaged two more minor leaguers with him to acquire an extra bat in Martinez, who wound up batting .211 the rest of the way and was out of the majors after the following season.

Alejandro Pena paid off big for the Braves in 1991.

No. 7. Aug. 28, 1991: The Braves trade Tony Castillo and a player to be named later (Joe Roa) to the Mets for Alejandro Pena. Before the Braves were a 12-time defending juggernaut, way back in 1991 and in their first pennant race in a decade, Atlanta needed a closer after an injury to Juan Berenguer. They chose Pena, who in his first attempt at being a full-timer relief ace went 11-for-11 in save opportunities with a 1.40 ERA. The honeymoon continued in the NLCS as Pena saved three of Atlanta's four wins over Pittsburgh. It ended with a thud, however, in the 10th inning of Game 7 of the World Series, when Pena allowed the series-losing run in the Braves' 1-0 loss to Jack Morris. (Incidentally, the next season, the Braves also acquired their playoff closer in August: Jeff Reardon, who gave up game-winning hits in both of his 1992 World Series appearances.)

No. 6. Aug. 8, 1990: The Pirates trade Scott Ruskin, Willie Greene and a player to be named later (Moises Alou) to the Expos for Zane Smith. The Pirates were 2½ games ahead of the Mets in the NL East race when they bolstered their rotation with Smith, then a nondescript left-hander. But Smith went 6-2, 1.30 down the stretch to help Pittsburgh to the title, then went 16-10, 3.20 as the Pirates repeated the following year. The cost at the time appeared to be Greene, then considered a fine prospect, but it wound up being Alou, who blossomed in Montreal.

No. 5. Aug. 29, 1985:The Cardinals trade Mark Jackson to the Reds for Cesar Cedeno. An aging veteran, Cedeno immediately caught fire for St. Louis, batting .434-6-19 in 28 games. His 10th-inning homer gave John Tudor a 1-0 win (over Dwight Gooden) on Sept. 11, and his 3-for-3 effort on Oct. 5 helped the Cardinals clinch the NL East.

No. 4. Aug. 19, 1986: The Red Sox trade Rey Quinones, cash and three players to be named later (Mike Brown, Mike Trujillo and John Christensen) to the Mariners for Spike Owen and Dave Henderson. Henderson batted just .196 for the Red Sox down the stretch, but boy, did he make up for it in the playoffs. On Oct. 12, with Boston down 5-4 in Game 5 and facing elimination to California with two out in the ninth, Henderson's two-run homer off Donnie Moore gave the Sox a 6-5 lead. The Angels scored a run in the bottom half to knot the score 6-6, but Henderson's sacrifice fly in the 11th won the game, 7-6. (Boston went on to win the series in seven games.) Later, in the World Series, Henderson also was the one who hit the 10th-inning home run in Game 6 to give the Sox the temporary lead later squandered by Bill Buckner and friends.

No. 3. Aug. 2, 2001: The Cardinals trade Ray Lankford and cash to the Padres for Woody Williams. The prototype .500 pitcher for San Diego over his two-plus seasons there, Williams immediately took to St. Louis, going 7-1, 2.28 down the stretch and helping the Cardinals into the playoffs, where he beat the eventual-champion Diamondbacks in his only start. Williams also went 27-13 the next two years, and while he has slowed down a bit this season, proved to be perhaps the most shrewd August pickup of this decade.

No. 2. Aug. 30, 1990: The Astros trade Larry Andersen to the Red Sox for Jeff Bagwell. Perhaps you've heard of this one? Yes, Bagwell turned out to be a star and possible Hall of Famer. Yes, Andersen compiled a 1.23 ERA down the stretch to help the Red Sox win the division. (Both teams got what they wanted.) But did you know that the Mets were close to acquiring Bagwell before the Astros swooped in? Andersen told the Boston Globe one week after the deal: "The Astros were packaging Billy Doran and I to the Mets for Ron Darling, Wally Whitehurst and Todd Hundley, but (Houston GM) Bill Wood called Doran at this black-tie charity function we were attending to ask him if he'd make a decision because the Mets had to work out a contract with him in order for the deal to go through. But Billy couldn't make up his mind that quickly, so the Mets were going to trade Darling to the Red Sox for Bagwell. So I thought Darling was heading to Boston. When the Astros told me about it, I was shocked about coming here."

No. 1. Aug. 12, 1987: The Braves trade Doyle Alexander to the Tigers for John Smoltz. Once again, each side accomplished their objectives in this not-particularly-notable deal at the time, but our No. 1 August trade since 1980. The Tigers were 1½ games behind the Blue Jays when they traded a good pitching prospect for a fading veteran -- a fading veteran who wound up almost singlearmedly winning them the AL East. Alexander went 9-0, 1.53 the rest of the way as the Tigers won all 11 of his starts, including one on the final Friday of the season against Toronto that moved the teams into a first-place tie. Detroit won the next two and went to the playoffs. (In which Alexander, by the way, pitched poorly.) The Tigers sure did pay the price in the future, however, as Smoltz emerged as a long-time star in Atlanta.

Alan Schwarz is the senior writer of Baseball America and a regular contributor to ESPN.com. His new book, "The Numbers Game: Baseball's Lifelong Fascination With Statistics," is published by St. Martin's Press and can be ordered on Alan's Web site.

Some pretty big names on that list.

[Miami Vice]

Moving away from the trade talk, Carlos Tosca was fired as the BlueJays manager today. Jon Gibbons, the 1st base coach, will take over for the rest of the year. I feel bad for Carlos because of all the injuries this year. It wasn't his fault they lost so may games. The combination of inuries and underachivers cost him his job.

[Ol' Spanktooth]

I would just like to say, Loiaza or however you spell his name, is absolutely awful. On the other side, Contreras (I'm having a hard time spelling today, go easy on me) is doing great for the Sox.

And on another AL Central note, the Indians are winning the division. That is all.

[jonnycomelately]

Talk about the AL all you want, the World Series will be won by the NL's Los Angeles Dodgers this year. There is no stronger balanced team in either league that can match up with them. The Cardinals have a much better lineup but their pitching, more relief than starting, is very spotty. Whoever wins the Wild Card is as good as gone. The Cubs don't get clutch hits and this is even with the addition of Nomar Garciaparra. The Padres are this year's Royals. They're starting to fade already. Their big hitters shit the bed late in the game and their middle relief is garbage. And don't even say anything on the Braves. If the Pirates were in the NL Easy (not a typo) they'd win it.

For the AL side of things, the Yankees will not go far with a back of the rotation of Tanyon Sturtze and Esteban Loaiza. Plus getting to Gordon and Rivera when your starter comes out in the 4th is harder than you think. No team from the Central, either Cleveland (watch out for them next year if they get a free agent bat and a REAL closer) or Minnesota, will ever make it out of the ALDS. Oakland, Texas, and Anaheim will beat each other up. Boston will choke as usual but only because their bullpen is so hurt and the replacements are atrocious.

I think I've made my point clear. GAME OVER BITCHES!

[DMN in the House]

Please, please, please keep the Dodger's names out of your mouth. We aren't ready to win the World Series. We don't have the 3 man rotation. We can't match up with St. Louis. I see us getting to the NLCS, but thats it.

[Guest NYJetFan86]

Um if you pay any attention to the Yankees Tanyon Sturtze is not in the starting rotation. Sturtze is a long reliever who starts in emergency situations such as last night with Vazquez away from the team because of Pink Eye. And wasn't it the Yankees who last week had 4 pitchers in a row pitch 8 innings each. Plus the returns of Mussina to the roatation and Karsay to the bullpen will only make them stronger. Come playoff time the Yanks usually go with a 4 man rotation which pushes the other starters to the pen making it even stronger than it already is. One thing you can never do especially this year with the amount of comeback wins they have is count out the Yankees. IIRC the Yanks faced the Dodgers earlier in the year and BEAT them causing Eric Gagne to blow a save in the process

[Green Demon]

Who would have though the Indians would be leading the league in runs and winning like they are later in the season. I would say they have a chance at taking the division lead soon depending on how they do this weekend against the Twins. They also have an outside chance at the wild card they are 3-4 games out but they got a better chance at winning the division. Here are some useless fact to the Indians are 21-3 for games on the weekend at home and are 10-0 whenever Wickmen has been in a game so far. If they had Wicky the whole year they could be leading the division.

[jonnycomelately]

Last time I checked Gagne's last blown save in three years came against the ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS. Yes Gagne gave up a HR to Jason Giambi in the game I think you are talking about, but then he struck out Hideki Matsui to end the game and get the save. And about Steve Karsay, he stunk two years ago, they were trying to shed that contract like a rampant case of VD. Now all of a sudden, his return will make them stronger.

And if my memory serves me correctly, the Dodgers won that series, the only game losing when Hideo Nomo, the devil incarnate pitched. Face it, the Yankees are not the Yankees this year. If they were then they wouldn't be sending out Tanyon Sturtze, who the Dodgers released after giving up three homers in a game a SINGLE A, at all.

I may be just a smidge biased being a Dodgers fan, but at this point in time I'd take the Dodgers rotation every single day and twice on Sunday.

Have fun when Gary Sheffield retires.

[Green Demon]

Wow who would have thought at the all star break the Indians would have a chance at first in august. They have made up 7 games in 10 days and can make that 8 in 11 if they beat the twins and tie for first. I even heard them talkinng on BBTN about the possibility of Hafner as MVP. Even I as a Cleveland fan was surprised to hear that but with 23 Hr, 91 RBI and a .324 avg what do you think. In those catigories he is in the top 10 in all and I think the top 5 in RBI.

[jonnycomelately]

If the Indians end up making the playoffs and Hafner finishes with over 30 HRs and 115 RBI (which he more than likely will) he will vault into the top two for AL MVP. Last year they were more than ready to give the award to David Ortiz with a .281 BA and 31 HR but his stock didn't rise quick enough nationwide. A-Rod only won it because the writers were tired of using the excuse that he was playing on a last place team (even though his season before was much better). He has got to be ranked up there with David Ortiz, Manny Ramirez, Miguel Tejada, and Vlad Guerrero for AL MVP. When it comes to NL MVP, its a toss-up between the annual candidate Barry Bonds, Adrian Beltre, Albert Pujols, and Mark Loretta. YES I SAID MARK LORETTA, the Padres are on the cusp of the playoffs and the big hitters have basically shit the bed this season. Rolen from STL, and Lee, Alou, and Ramirez will take votes from each other, and Loretta stands out on his team compared to the duo of Cards and trifecta of Cubs. He's third on the team in HR's and RBI's leads in average and is third among Major League second basemen in fielding percentage. He doesn't have a realistic shot in winning because of the first three but he should get a good deal of votes even if the Padres falter late.

[Lowerdeck]

If David Ortiz hits 40-45 homers, he'll be 1st or 2nd in MVP votes. Vlad being the other guy.

[sahyder1]

How ironic is Ramon Ortiz pitching a 4 hit shutout against the Yanks on a night Yankee Stadium had a power outage.

By BEN WALKER, AP Baseball Writer

August 20, 2004

Photo

AP - Aug 20, 10:30 pm EDT

More Photos

NEW YORK (AP) -- Ramon Ortiz was lights out at Yankee Stadium.

With the main scoreboards blackened by a power problem, Ortiz pitched four-hit ball for eight stellar innings and led the Anaheim Angels over the New York Yankees 5-0 Friday night.

``I think it is the best game I have thrown in my whole life,'' Ortiz said.

Adam Kennedy and Garret Anderson homered and Anaheim took advantage of left fielder Hideki Matsui's error to win its third in a row. The playoff-contending Angels won for the eighth time in nine road games.

Right after Matsui misplayed a fly ball in the seventh inning, the power on all scoreboards went out, and the public-address and sound effects system went silent. But the stadium lights stayed on, and the game continued without a delay.

``It was a little bit like 'The Twilight Zone,''' Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez said.

ADVERTISEMENT

There was no immediate word on what caused the outage, which lasted until the end of the game and also took the Yankees' YES Network broadcast off the air.

The Con Ed power company said it believed the problem was related to Yankee Stadium. A bevy of electricians and engineers scampered around the ballpark after the game ended.

``I didn't notice it for a while,'' Angels manager Mike Scioscia said. ``It was kind of weird. I knew the scoreboard was down.''

``We were keeping score on our card,'' he said.

It made for an odd scene when the top of the seventh ended. Without longtime PA man Bob Sheppard to prompt them, the 53,530 fans did not stand for ``God Bless America'' or ``Take Me Out to the Ball Game'' -- then again, the songs weren't played.

Instead, the crowd began chanting ``Let's go, Yankees!'' Later, a video board that stayed on posted this sign: ``Clap Along Fans!''

``It was strange. We've been so used to looking at the scoreboard for counts,'' Yankees manager Joe Torre.

Photo

AP - Aug 20, 10:30 pm EDT

More Photos

Lights in the Yankees' clubhouse dimmed, and the dugout phone went out. When Torre wanted to a reliever to warm up, he had to wait until someone in the bullpen noticed him waving.

``I was going to send someone on a mission around the ballpark,'' he said.

Added Yankees shortstop Derek Jeter: ``It was kind of eerie.''

There was no scoreboard watching in the late innings, not that it mattered with Ortiz on the mound. Even without a way to keep track of balls and strikes, it was easy to tell how many runs the Yankees scored against him: zero.

Ortiz (4-7) won for the first time since June 19, a span of seven starts. He made Gary Sheffield and Rodriguez look bad swinging at sharp sliders and escaped his only jam when right fielder Vladimir Guerrero ran down Matsui's liner with runners at the corners to end the first.

``I was a little scared when the guy hit the ball, but Vlad made a good catch,'' Ortiz said.

Ortiz struck out six and walked two. He was pulled three outs shy of his second career shutout -- he pitched five-hitter against Baltimore in 2002 -- and Troy Percival finished it off.

``I had everything tonight -- good changeup, good slider, good location,'' Ortiz said.

Jon Lieber (9-8) gave up a lot of hits early, yet was hurt only by Kennedy's solo home run in the second. Kennedy was in a 12-for-63 (.190) slump before connecting.

Lieber issued his first walk with one out in the seventh to Jose Molina. Chone Figgins followed with a hit-and-run single and David Eckstein delivered an RBI single for a 2-0 lead.

Darin Erstad lifted a high fly to left center that Matsui got underneath, but the ball bounced off his glove for an error that scored another run.

Anderson hit a two-run homer off Paul Quantrill in the ninth.

Notes

Molina's bat went flying about 10 rows over the Angels' third-base dugout when he lost his grip in the seventh. ... Scioscia and a trainer checked with LF Jose Guillen after the Angels batted in the sixth. Guillen legged out a hit during the inning, then walked gingerly to his position. He stayed in the game, but left for a defensive replacement in the ninth. ... Lieber got a break in the fourth when he was hit in the leg by Molina's hard grounder. Instead of becoming an RBI single, the ball deflected to Jeter, who turned it into an inning-ending double play. ... Quantrill gave up a leadoff single to Eckstein in the ninth. That made it seven straight batters to get a hit off the righty over three games.

[Lowerdeck]

The Sox are within 6-7 of the Yankees right now.

So close, yet so far.

[sahyder1]

The Sox are within 6-7 of the Yankees right now.

So close, yet so far.

←

[grind your soul]

Hey, the Jays and their rookies aren't doing too badly.

Gabe Gross has been decent in the field, Alex Rios is lighting shit up after a S-L-O-W start, Jason Frasor doesn't completely suck [which you can't say about any other pitchers in the Jays bullpen *coughLIGTENBERGcough*], Kevin Cash is good defensively [but absolutely terrible offensively], Delgado is finally hitting, Wells has been decent since his return, Hinske seems to have found his swing, and Reed Johnson, as always, brings the pain. Oh, and Josh Towers and David Bush are some bad-ass starters. A lot of Toronto media talk shit on Towers, but I don't know why. He's been the Jays best pitcher this year, was 8-1 last year, and has been steady after a slow start. So they should shut up. Bush has been very good for a rookie.

So.. maybe the Jays can finish off the season strong.

[Er.. what was the original topic again?]

Edited August 22, 2004 by grind your soul