2011 NFL Offseason Thread

[EddieG]

So it made Brady better.

[Cactus Drags]

They're both first ballot for various reasons. Both all-time greats in their position.

That article seems like a bunch of silly nonsense. I stopped taking it seriously when he underminded Jerry Rice's contribution to the 49ers. Moss quite clearly did make the Patriots better. He's comparing their 2001-2004 dynasty to the team Moss came into as if they were the exact same team playing the exact same game against the exact same teams only now Moss is with them.

Fact is Moss broke records in 2007 and helped Brady breakk them too but this dumbass is making it out as if Moss' performance was detremental to the team, whilst comparing them to a 3 year old team. The 2007 Patriots were arguably the greatest team of all time and barring the Giant upset in Arizona they would be regarded as the greatest team to ever grace the NFL. But no Brady's completion % and YPA attempt went down slightly from the 2007 season to the 2001-04 dyanasty, that has to be on Moss, because there are no other varibales like the other recievers, his offensive line and opponents.

You can disagree all you like, but those guys are certainly not dumbasses. They come up with some pretty interesting stats and analysis. Just because some of it goes against the grain or challenges conventional thinking doesn't make it wrong. They do sometimes overegg it, I admit, but there's no need to be quite so dismissive.

Brady was certainly a better postseason quarterback in the early days, too. Whether coincidence or not, we don’t know. But we do know that one set of playoff data, one set of Cold, Hard Football Facts, is better than the other.

Brady pre-Moss (12-2): 295 of 486, 60.7%, 3,217 yards, 6.6 YPA, 20 TD, 9 INT, 86.2 rating, 25.3 PPG

Brady with Moss (2-2): 100 of 151, 66.2%, 891 yards, 5.9 YPA, 8 TD, 6 INT, 82.9 rating, 20.8 PPG

The numbers are rather shocking: Brady had a reputation as a dink-and-dunk kind of quarterback in his early days. The numbers support the reputation: his 6.6 YPA in the 14 pre-Moss playoff games was just below the league-wide average of about 6.8 to 6.9 YPA.

But Brady also dink-and-dunked his way to 10 straight playoff wins at one point, three Super Bowl victories, a pair of Super Bowl MVP awards, a pair of last-second game-winning Super Bowl drives, and a record 32 completions in Super Bowl XXXVIII. Considering the fact the Patriots seemed to play half their postseason games in snow, rain or bone-chilling cold, the numbers are pretty decent. They were certainly good enough to win consistently.

But with Moss, the quarterback's numbers suffered badly: Brady was, at one point, the least intercepted passer in postseason history. But he suffered not one but two three-pick playoff games with Moss as his battery mate (vs. San Diego in the 2007 AFC title game; vs. Baltimore in the 2009 wildcard round).

More amazingly, Brady and Moss simply could not get the ball down field in the playoffs. Moss was supposed to be the greatest downfield threat in history. But Brady’s 5.9 YPA average with Moss is incredibly poor, well below his very good career regular-season average of 7.3 YPA.

And Moss was a no-show. In four playoff games with the Patriots, he caught 12 passes for 142 yards and 1 TD. That was one day of work for Deion Branch in the playoffs – back when New England was winning championships.

Put another way: the explosive Brady-Moss battery of the regular season was a major-league dud in the postseason.

Seriously, did you even bother to read it?

Wait, Moss didn't make the Patriots better?

It can be argued that Brady's three best seasons have come with Moss as his WR.

[JStarr]

When you go back and look at the way Moss was lighting fools up in his Minnesota playoff games, the fact that he usually laid an egg for the Patriots is pretty inexplicable. The Pats have gotten to the Yankee level in football, where anything short of a Super Bowl win gets considered a failure. Er go, they failed a lot with Moss. Not remotely all his fault, but someone with his skills and credentials should have been more of a help.

[sahyder1]

When you go back and look at the way Moss was lighting fools up in his Minnesota playoff games, the fact that he usually laid an egg for the Patriots is pretty inexplicable. The Pats have gotten to the Yankee level in football, where anything short of a Super Bowl win gets considered a failure. Er go, they failed a lot with Moss. Not remotely all his fault, but someone with his skills and credentials should have been more of a help.

He scored the TD that put the Patriots ahead in the Super Bowl against the Giants. If the defense does its job Moss has his ring.

[gunnar hendershow]

Yeah if Rodney Harrison didn't shit the bed on one play then this entire argument is invalid.

[naiwf]

Yeah if Rodney Harrison didn't shit the bed on one play then this entire argument is invalid.

He didn't shit the bed. He was simply on the wrong end of the greatest catch and/or play in SB history. 999,999 times out of 1 million the Pats go down in history as the first team to ever go 19-0, Brady arguably surpasses Montana as the greatest QB of the modern era and Moss has his ring. The thing that's got to hurt the most for the Pats fans out there is that David Tyree never caught another pass in his entire career.

[Lint]

Yeah if Rodney Harrison didn't shit the bed on one play then this entire argument is invalid.

If Asante Samuel didn't drop a sure fire pick we wouldn't be having this conversation

[Toe]

Is Wes Welker going to be 100% going into this season? He was hurting a lot last season, it seemed. I think he is going to be the key to the Patriots offence.

[Vendetta]

He better be...I have him and Colston as my two top receivers.

I'm in a keeper league and I have someone who wants to trade me Steven Jackson for my first round pick (4th) overall. Don't know what I should do.

I have Beanie Wells, Ronnie Brown, CJ Spiller, Fred Jackson, Mike Tolbert. With a bid on Marion Barber...If I take the deal I'm going to want compensation because that means I won't be picking till the third round...

[gunnar hendershow]

Hey Meacon, you didn't buy a Tebow jersey right?

[Mysterio2000X]

He better be...I have him and Colston as my two top receivers.

I'm in a keeper league and I have someone who wants to trade me Steven Jackson for my first round pick (4th) overall. Don't know what I should do.

I have Beanie Wells, Ronnie Brown, CJ Spiller, Fred Jackson, Mike Tolbert. With a bid on Marion Barber...If I take the deal I'm going to want compensation because that means I won't be picking till the third round...

Can you get your hands on a Ray Rice, Arian Foster, Rashard Mendenhall, etc. with that pick? If you can, then don't take the deal, but if they're already locked up then yeah, go for it. Your HBs are pretty blah.

[Slogger]

So Poots came and went to the Cowboys after we released him for no reason other than shits and giggles - Hang onto him Dallas.

McClain goes and signs with the Chiefs, Killing my dreams of the three headed Rice, Leach and McClain running attack but the cap room we save by not re-signing Le'ron is room we can use to upgrade a few different positions like most of our Secondary.

I'm not sure how the latest signing on Bernard Pollard is going to work out for us but I guess I'll find out rather soonish.

[Vendetta]

He better be...I have him and Colston as my two top receivers.

I'm in a keeper league and I have someone who wants to trade me Steven Jackson for my first round pick (4th) overall. Don't know what I should do.

I have Beanie Wells, Ronnie Brown, CJ Spiller, Fred Jackson, Mike Tolbert. With a bid on Marion Barber...If I take the deal I'm going to want compensation because that means I won't be picking till the third round...

Can you get your hands on a Ray Rice, Arian Foster, Rashard Mendenhall, etc. with that pick? If you can, then don't take the deal, but if they're already locked up then yeah, go for it. Your HBs are pretty blah.

No this is a keeper league..we have off season and everything..Our draft consists of unsigned free agents and rookies...every now and then there a re a few names because you can drop a player with a high salary and then draft him at a lower one.

[Meacon Keaton]

Hey Meacon, you didn't buy a Tebow jersey right?

Yup. Two, in fact. One for me and one for the lady.

[The Heartbreak Kid]

I bought a NY Jets sweatshirt last season. But I'm thinking about buying a jersey this year. Either Mark Sanchez or Darrelle Revis.

I'm leaning towards Revis.

[Slogger]

Seeing as we are on this topic.

Bought a Ray Lewis alternate jersey last year, Love it to death. But I'm looking for maybe a hoodie and hat but maybe a Reed/Ngata jersey if all goes now between now and Xmas.

[gunnar hendershow]

So Poots came and went to the Cowboys after we released him for no reason other than shits and giggles - Hang onto him Dallas.

McClain goes and signs with the Chiefs, Killing my dreams of the three headed Rice, Leach and McClain running attack but the cap room we save by not re-signing Le'ron is room we can use to upgrade a few different positions like most of our Secondary.

I'm not sure how the latest signing on Bernard Pollard is going to work out for us but I guess I'll find out rather soonish.

We'll find a cheaper option to fit into the running game, that doesn't worry me. Bernard Pollard is a decent signing, adds some depth if anything. Don't know if we're getting a big-time pass rusher though, but maybe Kindle can fit that role. I was hoping the Giants dropped their asking price for Osi, but it doesn't look like that's gonna happen. Hoping this Malcom Floyd deal gets hammered out and he can come in as the number 2. I don't want Braylon Edwards.

As for my jersey purchase this year. Depends what's in stock but I'll either get Rice or Suggs. Probably the road jersey.

[Meacon Keaton]

I'm thinking this year is a Von Miller year for me. Probably going to go with the alt orange ones that we'll be wearing when we beat the Raiders on the opening Monday night. ^_^

[The Heartbreak Kid]

I can see Von Miller tearing some shit up in Denver this year. For sure.

I hope Marcell Darius shows up for the Buffalo Bills. I'm thinking about taking a trip to Buffalo to watch a game. I've never been to a NFL game before. ^_^ If I lived closer I'd get a job at Ralph Wilson Stadium, I know someone who worked there last season. She said that they're always looking for people.

I imagine good tickets would be fairly cheap too for a Bills game.

Edited August 4, 2011 by Disturbed

[SeanDMan]

For forty bucks, you get two tickets, two beers, two hot dogs, and one of the safeties will suck your dick at halftime if you promise you'll come back.