NBA Thread 2011-12

[naiwf]

They aren't really doing it based on name value or golden boy status though. Last team had Michael Redd and Tayshaun Prince on it for instance. I think when you look at what Love and Griffin can offer the team, Love wins by a landslide.

That's true. But this team wants to be considered to be like the Dream Team. Unless they're going for Laettner over Shaq again, I say they'll include every big name that's willing to go. I just don't see them telling Griffin no in favor of Love.

[Quom]

Kobe Bryant

Lebron James

Dwayne Wade

Carmelo Anthony

Dwight Howard

Chris Paul

Kevin Durant

Derrick Rose

Tyson Chandler

Kevin Love

Blake Griffin

Deron Williams

[DYSI]

Kobe Bryant

Lebron James

Dwayne Wade

Carmelo Anthony

Dwight Howard

Chris Paul

Deron Williams

Kevin Durant

Derrick Rose

Tyson Chandler

Kevin Love

LaMarcus Aldridge

Fuck Bosh.

[gunnar hendershow]

Kobe Bryant

Lebron James

Dwayne Wade

Chris Bosh

Carmelo Anthony

Dwight Howard

Chris Paul

Deron Williams

Kevin Durant

Derrick Rose

Tyson Chandler

Eric Gordon

Rudy Gay

Kevin Love

Lamar Odom

Chauncy Billups

Russell Westbrook

Andre Igudola

Blake Griffin

LaMarcus Aldridge

PG - Paul, D-Will, Rose

SG - Bryant, Wade

SF - James, Durant, Anthony

PF - Love, Griffin

C - Howard, Chandler

And about the Wolves, I think that veterans are more concerned with going somewhere they can win than a "nice place". These guys are rich enough to own a home in Malibu anyway, so having to spend a third of the year at most in the frigid cold of the Twin Cities isn't bad at all. Hollinger estimates Love adds 4 wins (and is ranked 6th in PER) so you can absolutely build a team around him. Only Howard, Durant, James, and Bryant have a higher EWA. Rubio's 3rd in rookies in EWA and 4th in PER. If Rubio develops as his career trajectory indicates he's going to be in the top 15 consistently in his prime. So a core of Rubio and Love is a playoff team every year, and if Derrick Williams fulfills his potential that team is going to truly be dangerous.

[naiwf]

And about the Wolves, I think that veterans are more concerned with going somewhere they can win than a "nice place".

And yet no one ever went to Minnesota to play with KG in his prime, or Cleveland to play with LeBron, or Toronto to play with Bosh or Carter or T-Mac, or Orlando to play with Shaq or Howard, or Utah to play with Malone and Stockton. NBA players are not busy looking at metrics when determining where to play. They want to play in big cities that have something to offer at night if the money is equal, and no one of any significance has ever chosen a small market when they can go play somewhere like Boston, LA, Dallas, Miami or Chicago so I'm pretty sure you're not seeing the NBA for what it is. Money's #1, media market is # 1 A, and a place to win is a distant 3rd unless you're talking about the championship chasing whores like Payton, Malone or even Shaq at the end of their careers.

[Maxx]

But even that last arguement doesn't work because Malone and Payton went to Los Angeles, and then Payton went to Miami.

[naiwf]

But even that last arguement doesn't work because Malone and Payton went to Los Angeles, and then Payton went to Miami.

True, but Shaq ended up going to Phoenix and Cleveland chasing # 5. He never would have done that in his prime which was the point. OKC is potentially the only team that might have been able to lure guys but now that Westbrook and Durant are making big money and Harden's got to get paid, it won't matter since they won't have any money.

[Maxx]

But even that last arguement doesn't work because Malone and Payton went to Los Angeles, and then Payton went to Miami.

True, but Shaq ended up going to Phoenix and Cleveland chasing # 5. He never would have done that in his prime which was the point. OKC is potentially the only team that might have been able to lure guys but now that Westbrook and Durant are making big money and Harden's got to get paid, it won't matter since they won't have any money.

He didn't choose to go Phoenix, he was traded. Cleveland was sort of a no brainer for him though, he's always played with a wingman, and LeBron was the only one in a situation that would have allowed him to sign.

[Colossus]

A starting 5 of Rose, Wade, LeBron, Griffin and Howard would be amazing, just for the fastbreak that it would be. Seeing those 5 run after a rebound and get easy bucket after easy bucker would be awesome. And with LeBron, Wade and Howard on the team, Rose and Griffin woulldn't even be asked to play D.

[Quom]

Missed half of the Minnesota game. Boo. Go Rubio!

[Panni]

Gallinari drops 35 points and 11 boards on the Knicks tonight. How is this team so bad?

[Quom]

Gallinari is a good player :/

[Panni]

Gallinari is a good player :/

I agree he's a good player. When I was saying "how is this team so bad" i was just referring to their record overall, even though I previously mentioned Gallo's ridiculous stat-line for the night.

[Quom]

Oh, I thought you meant the Knicks were bad for letting him score so much. If the Nuggets didn't lose three players to China I think they would be much stronger. Stupid lockout.

[gunnar hendershow]

And about the Wolves, I think that veterans are more concerned with going somewhere they can win than a "nice place".

And yet no one ever went to Minnesota to play with KG in his prime, or Cleveland to play with LeBron, or Toronto to play with Bosh or Carter or T-Mac, or Orlando to play with Shaq or Howard, or Utah to play with Malone and Stockton. NBA players are not busy looking at metrics when determining where to play. They want to play in big cities that have something to offer at night if the money is equal, and no one of any significance has ever chosen a small market when they can go play somewhere like Boston, LA, Dallas, Miami or Chicago so I'm pretty sure you're not seeing the NBA for what it is. Money's #1, media market is # 1 A, and a place to win is a distant 3rd unless you're talking about the championship chasing whores like Payton, Malone or even Shaq at the end of their careers.

Orlando was crippled by the Rashard Lewis contract, and free agency was different when Shaq was there. If I recall Minnesota was giving an absurd amount to Szczerbiak and Terrell Brandon at the same time they were paying KG the max. For whatever the reason I remember Minny found themselves in cap hell when they actually were one player away. And you might recall the small-market Kings lured a lot of guys to come there and play with C-Webb, and the small-market Blazers did the same around the same time. And Utah went to 2 Finals with Malone and Stockton at a time when, as I said in regards to Shaq, free agency was very different. Toronto's a lone exception because of the tax structure and currency exchange. It killed Canadian NHL teams for years and there's no disputing any Canadian city is a viable hockey market for a player's "brand".

[naiwf]

Orlando was crippled by the Rashard Lewis contract, and free agency was different when Shaq was there. If I recall Minnesota was giving an absurd amount to Szczerbiak and Terrell Brandon at the same time they were paying KG the max. For whatever the reason I remember Minny found themselves in cap hell when they actually were one player away. And you might recall the small-market Kings lured a lot of guys to come there and play with C-Webb, and the small-market Blazers did the same around the same time. And Utah went to 2 Finals with Malone and Stockton at a time when, as I said in regards to Shaq, free agency was very different. Toronto's a lone exception because of the tax structure and currency exchange. It killed Canadian NHL teams for years and there's no disputing any Canadian city is a viable hockey market for a player's "brand".

If you just look at the player movement in recent years, and the contract extensions that are happening now there's no way anyone who is All-Star caliber and in their prime is ever going to choose to go play in Minnesota. It's just a fact of the NBA we live in. If Love and Rubio start getting that team to the playoffs, then their draft picks will drop out of the lottery and into that crapshoot that is the mid 20's. It's nice to build around a young core, but unless you luck into getting a Durant and then hit with a Westbrook or catch lightning in a bottle with Duncan in SA the year Robinson was hurt or the Magic landing back to back # 1's to get Shaq and Penny, it's almost impossible to be a championship contender in one of those small markets. The fact that Bosh and LeBron left because no one wanted to play with them is a problem. Hell, Stoudemire and 'Melo couldn't wait to get to NY and that team still sucks. Aside from Quom, no one is that excited about being in Ricky Rubio's presence that they'd be willing to move to Minny

[gunnar hendershow]

Well nobody was going to Cleveland because LeBron was playing the whole "I can't wait to be a free agent! The sweepstakes is gonna be a blast!" card for years before. Same with Bosh. That whole crop that was due to hit the open market in 2010 basically hijacked their respective teams and made it impossible for them to lure free agents since they couldn't promise that they'd actually be playing with a star player past 1 or 2 years.

I do agree it's almost impossible to build a contender in a small market, we've discussed this before. You have to strike gold in multiple drafts. Teams like the Lakers are willing to make up for the fact they pick in the 20s every year by spending the money to go over the luxury tax. You won't see Minnesota ever do that, so when they owed Wally and Terrell Brandon a combined $17 mil on top of the $22 mil they owed to KG it basically made it impossible for them a thing. But Rubio and Love might be one of those great 1-2 punches that sticks it out in Minnesota, and you would think at some point a non-lottery pick will work out for them. Or they could nail a Polynice-for-Pippen deal one year. The fact is there's always going to be a couple of small market teams who do manage to be competitive for years at a time. There's also a handful of sleeping big market giants (Dallas, Boston, and New York were this once upon a time) who could get energized very easily. It's not as simple anymore as saying Lakers will get their guys and everyone else finishes second. The league has way too much talent for that and has clearly been making an effort to sabotage the workings of the big market clubs.

[Quom]

Plus Love and Rubio are exciting players. Rubio doesn't play like your typical point guard. He also isn't driving into people every play and likely to get injured. Love covers the boards and will also take the three. The point is they are being allowed to play that way. This isn't a team where a PF needs to be a PF and your point guard needs to run a play a certain way. Plus both Rubio and Love are showing that on an off night they are happy for someone else to carry the load, they'll still take their shots but they won't keep forcing them trying to shoot out of it.

I'm not saying that Dwight Howard is going to go there as a free agent. But if I was a disillusioned player who felt as if I had skills that had been restricted by being forced to play in a system then I'd happily throw my hat into the ring.

Even without, I can see them making it into the playoffs. Rubio keeps showing that he's capable of leading the team onto runs. I think they scored 14 unanswered points against the Jazz in the third quarter. He makes it look effortless. The main issue is that when they aren't on a streak they don't have enough weapons to stay competitive. I like Darko, he never was what some people thought he was, but he's serviceable. Same with Ridnour. But you aren't going deep into the playoffs with them starting. Not without one more superstar or some better role players. If Wilson Chandler comes back at mid-year he could be a great signing or JR Smith. Neither should break the bank.

[naiwf]

ESPN says that the Magic have discussed a Howard for A'mare/Chandler swap. If I'm the Knicks I do it yesterday. We get the best player in the deal and the cap space to sign Deron Williams next year. In short, it's a BS story.

[ROZAY]

Do the Magic have a trade exception or something? I don't see how the Magic can possibly take on both of those contracts and we would have enough cap room to sign Deron Williams without them sending Hedo as well. Can Chandler even be traded before the deadline?

I also don't think Dwight and Melo would really compliment one another to be honest. Not in D'Antoni's system, anyway.