EWR 2012 Stats Update: July ***PLEASE USE SPOILER TAGS***

[notatardis]

I don't disagree with that ladder at all, so there's that. I disagree though that Finaly would be a top in wrestling but rather rather high up of the really good, almost one of the best in wrestling. (Mind you, not enough to quibble with his actual number, we've just been using him as an example)/ Same with Quack though. One of the best going? Absolutely. All time? I don't see it.

[Guest Team 720]

Just because two guys work different styles doesn't mean they can't have a good match. Masada is a great brawler, AR Fox is a great speed-based wrestler, but they had a fantastic match at CZW the other night. It doesn't need to be strong style/strong style death match/death match WWE style/WWE style to be good. Mixing it up can be just fine.

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying we should include all aspects of a stat because the stat accounts for all aspects. It's simply logical and fair.

I'm not saying different stats in terms of a matchup, I think that's very accurate. I don't think, say, Brain Damage and Finlay would put on as good of a brawl based match in general as say Steen and Richards.

To be honest I think that would be an awesome match-up.

And for that matter, Kris, what do you consider Mediocre? I think in terms of game mechanics, wouldn't that be about 50 or so? The game doesn't act as a test, where 70 is the average to the best of my recollection. The 70s would be solidly above average, I think.

This is how I look at it:

40s - okay.

50s - decent.

60s - good

70s - REALLY good.

80s - great. One of the top in wrestling.

90s - one of the best of all time.

But you don't in reality.

Think about it:

50's and 60's should have a bulk of the workers and as you go up it gets slimmer and slimmer but you continually say that CZW guys are at LEAST in the 70's who you say are REALLY good. The problem is more people SHOULD be 50's and 60's as the mean would be somewhere in there while you offe too many outliers.Under your logic RIch Swann who I would say is 40's/50's in brawl, you say is REALLY good when you said he did good brawls in CZW and therefore should be in the 70's.

[notatardis]

I'd say Swann should be in the 50s, for whatever it's worth.

[fusionFX!]

Raise Brandon Kaplan's and Tony Mann's selling to 68.

Add Jay Batista to the game:

Jay Batista

Jay Batista or J. Batista

36, Can't find info on what month

Male, Heavyweight

B 68

S 23

T 42

Stiff 74

Sell 66

Over 26

Charisma 66

Att 85

Behav 88

Check SS Look, Menacing

$6,000

Finisher: Spear, Spinebuster

Face, Bad Ass

Blood relative with Batista, their first cousins.

http://jaybatista.webs.com/

Edited July 18, 2012 by fusionFX!

[KrisClassic]

There are PLENTY of guys with 40s/50s in brawl, hundreds in the database. I try to focus on the guys who are decent and deserve the higher stats, though. There is a reason I'm not naming names - they're nobodies for a reason. The guys you've heard of on the indies, well, there is a reason you've heard of them, and a reason they're getting higher stats.

As for Swann, I am basing his brawl off of his matches on smaller indies in the NJ/PA/NY area with Sami Callihan. They've had fantastic brawls, and that wasn't dues to just Sami carrying him. He deserves early 70s at least. Check out his feud with Sami from NWA-F1.

TBH I wouldn't check SS Look on Jay Batista. Would Family Guy be more appropriate of a gimmick?

Edited July 18, 2012 by KrisClassic

[fusionFX!]

There are PLENTY of guys with 40s/50s in brawl, hundreds in the database. I try to focus on the guys who are decent and deserve the higher stats, though. There is a reason I'm not naming names - they're nobodies for a reason. The guys you've heard of on the indies, well, there is a reason you've heard of them, and a reason they're getting higher stats.

As for Swann, I am basing his brawl off of his matches on smaller indies in the NJ/PA/NY area with Sami Callihan. They've had fantastic brawls, and that wasn't dues to just Sami carrying him. He deserves early 70s at least. Check out his feud with Sami from NWA-F1.

TBH I wouldn't check SS Look on Jay Batista. Would Family Guy be more appropriate of a gimmick?

He's ripped and jacked like his cousin, Dave Batista.

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1176/5118747832_b6d2958a52_z.jpg

Look at the picture, that explains it all. And yeah, the gimmick probably would be better as Family Guy

Edited July 18, 2012 by fusionFX!

[KrisClassic]

There are PLENTY of guys with 40s/50s in brawl, hundreds in the database. I try to focus on the guys who are decent and deserve the higher stats, though. There is a reason I'm not naming names - they're nobodies for a reason. The guys you've heard of on the indies, well, there is a reason you've heard of them, and a reason they're getting higher stats.

As for Swann, I am basing his brawl off of his matches on smaller indies in the NJ/PA/NY area with Sami Callihan. They've had fantastic brawls, and that wasn't dues to just Sami carrying him. He deserves early 70s at least. Check out his feud with Sami from NWA-F1.

TBH I wouldn't check SS Look on Jay Batista. Would Family Guy be more appropriate of a gimmick?

He's ripped and jacked like his cousin, Dave Batista.

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1176/5118747832_b6d2958a52_z.jpg

Look at the picture, that explains it all. And yeah, the gimmick probably would be better as Family Guy

From that picture I'd check SS Look. The others on the website he doesn't look it, though. But I'm cool with it either way. The website looks several years out of date, does he still work?

[Guest Team 720]

There are PLENTY of guys with 40s/50s in brawl, hundreds in the database. I try to focus on the guys who are decent and deserve the higher stats, though. There is a reason I'm not naming names - they're nobodies for a reason. The guys you've heard of on the indies, well, there is a reason you've heard of them, and a reason they're getting higher stats.

As for Swann, I am basing his brawl off of his matches on smaller indies in the NJ/PA/NY area with Sami Callihan. They've had fantastic brawls, and that wasn't dues to just Sami carrying him. He deserves early 70s at least. Check out his feud with Sami from NWA-F1.

TBH I wouldn't check SS Look on Jay Batista. Would Family Guy be more appropriate of a gimmick?

He's ripped and jacked like his cousin, Dave Batista.

http://farm2.staticf...6d2958a52_z.jpg

Look at the picture, that explains it all. And yeah, the gimmick probably would be better as Family Guy

From that picture I'd check SS Look. The others on the website he doesn't look it, though. But I'm cool with it either way. The website looks several years out of date, does he still work?

He wrestled as of 2011 (source: Cagematch.)

[notatardis]

There are PLENTY of guys with 40s/50s in brawl, hundreds in the database. I try to focus on the guys who are decent and deserve the higher stats, though. There is a reason I'm not naming names - they're nobodies for a reason. The guys you've heard of on the indies, well, there is a reason you've heard of them, and a reason they're getting higher stats.

As for Swann, I am basing his brawl off of his matches on smaller indies in the NJ/PA/NY area with Sami Callihan. They've had fantastic brawls, and that wasn't dues to just Sami carrying him. He deserves early 70s at least. Check out his feud with Sami from NWA-F1.

TBH I wouldn't check SS Look on Jay Batista. Would Family Guy be more appropriate of a gimmick?

There should be plenty. Think of it like a bell curve of sorts.

Using our ladder, I look at Swann, do I say he's really good? Eh. Not really. Do I say he's good? Sure. I could buy it. Do I say he's decent? Definitely. He's on par with Elgin right now. I don't think that's really all that accurate.

I also don't think Sami Callihan is that great. I can't recall being more than passively entertained by any of his matches.

[fusionFX!]

There are PLENTY of guys with 40s/50s in brawl, hundreds in the database. I try to focus on the guys who are decent and deserve the higher stats, though. There is a reason I'm not naming names - they're nobodies for a reason. The guys you've heard of on the indies, well, there is a reason you've heard of them, and a reason they're getting higher stats.

As for Swann, I am basing his brawl off of his matches on smaller indies in the NJ/PA/NY area with Sami Callihan. They've had fantastic brawls, and that wasn't dues to just Sami carrying him. He deserves early 70s at least. Check out his feud with Sami from NWA-F1.

TBH I wouldn't check SS Look on Jay Batista. Would Family Guy be more appropriate of a gimmick?

He's ripped and jacked like his cousin, Dave Batista.

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1176/5118747832_b6d2958a52_z.jpg

Look at the picture, that explains it all. And yeah, the gimmick probably would be better as Family Guy

From that picture I'd check SS Look. The others on the website he doesn't look it, though. But I'm cool with it either way. The website looks several years out of date, does he still work?

I really don't know if he does or not, and it is out of date. The last posted thing I've seen on there was back in 2009.

I've got a few more wrestlers you could add to the game..

- Add "Ironhead" Matt Anderson to the game:

Matt Anderson

Ironhead, Male

June, 23

Heavyweight

Face, Bad Ass

Brawl: 80

Speed: 27

Technical: 63

Stiffness: 69

Selling: 60

Over: 10

Charisma: 62

Attitude: 80

Behavior: 80

Menacing, High spots

Wage: $4,000

Speaks: Yes

American

Primary Finisher: Spear(Impact)

Secondary Finisher: Diving Legdrop(Top Rope)

Loyalty with Rob Wright.

http://www.southern-wrestling.com/images/roster/ironhead/ironhead_matt_anderson1.JPG

- Add Major Havoc to the game:

Major Havoc

Major Havoc, Male

October, 30(Guess)

Heavyweight

Face, Armed Forces

Brawl: 67

Speed: 15

Technical: 20

Stiffness: 64

Selling: 55

Over: 18

Charisma: 68

Attitude: 80

Behavior: 80

Menacing, trainer

Wage: $6,000

Speaks: Yes

American

Primary Finisher: Chokeslam(Impact)

Secondary Finisher: Jackknife Powerbomb(Impact)

Loyalty relationship with Matt Anderson and Rob Wright.

http://a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/8/68b9eb63c644665382e1cbff15af6212/l.jpg

Edit: Video of Jay Batista, back in 2011 when he wrestled Caprice Coleman. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DimbYufSMuk

Edited July 18, 2012 by fusionFX!

[Bill1996]

Just a quick note regarding Dean Ambrose that I noticed, while looking at the ladder notes...

Kris, you stated that Ambrose "deserved a charisma of 89" after a drop to 87 was suggested...

Meanwhile 3 workers weren't mentioned at all regarding charisma: Cody Rhodes, Dolph Ziggler and Randy Orton. All three currently have a charisma at 87, with no suggested changes for any of them.

Maybe it's me, but I find it difficult to believe Ambrose (who admittedly, I have seen very little of) should have a higher charisma than Orton and Ziggler at this point in time...

Like I said, I was looking through the notes and this just really surprised me...

-Bill

Edited July 18, 2012 by Bill1996

[KrisClassic]

Just a quick note regarding Dean Ambrose that I noticed, while looking at the ladder notes...

Kris, you stated that Ambrose "deserved a charisma of 89" after a drop to 87 was suggested...

Meanwhile 3 workers weren't mentioned at all regarding charisma: Cody Rhodes, Dolph Ziggler and Randy Orton. All three currently have a charisma at 87, with no suggested changes for any of them.

Maybe it's me, but I find it difficult to believe Ambrose (who admittedly, I have seen very little of) should have a higher charisma than Orton and Ziggler at this point in time...

Like I said, I was looking through the notes and this just really surprised me...

-Bill

I think Orton is one of the best talkers today and should be on-par at around 89-90. Ziggler I'd say is fine at 87ish. But that's just my opinion.

As for something stated earlier, no question Sami deserves 84. He's tearing it up on the indies and internationally, in England, Germany, Japan, and Australia, as well. He's been doing especially incredible stuff in CZW lately with Drake Younger (and before that, Adam Cole).

As for Swann, I hardly think it's fair to judge his brawl based on his work in a promotion where he doesn't brawl (like DG-USA). I've seen him brawling across buildings with Sami Callihan in NWA-F1 and he is really good. Just because he doesn't get the chance to showcase it as often doesn't mean he doesn't have it.

Edited July 18, 2012 by KrisClassic

[notatardis]

Orton's a bland mush mouth who has spots where he's pretty good some times.

Whatever with Sami. I find him boring, and his matches boring, but to everyone their own. I don't have a suggestion for his stats, was just continuing the convo.

Do you have a link for some of that feud you mentioned? Considering it seems you run a little high, but being fair to consider that feud, I'd like to volunteer another set of eyes. You may say because of X thing, Y thing should happen, but based on other X things (Taker's brawl, Cena's selling, Quack, Backlund, etc) I don't think we should just roll with it when the past has shown the board at large may not agree. No one save maybe Bill should get that level of deference anyway.

[fusionFX!]

- And another thing, Cody Rhodes deserves atleast a 92 in charisma.

- Crimson should have atleast a 73 in brawling, and a 49 in speed.

[KrisClassic]

I can't find anything from those matches specifically online (aside from the DVD), I was referencing what I've seen at live shows.

I found this on

that showcases him brawling a small bit, but not a huge lot. I'll look for more tonight though when I get home from work.

[Bill1996]

Orton's a bland mush mouth who has spots where he's pretty good some times.

Whatever with Sami. I find him boring, and his matches boring, but to everyone their own. I don't have a suggestion for his stats, was just continuing the convo.

Do you have a link for some of that feud you mentioned? Considering it seems you run a little high, but being fair to consider that feud, I'd like to volunteer another set of eyes. You may say because of X thing, Y thing should happen, but based on other X things (Taker's brawl, Cena's selling, Quack, Backlund, etc) I don't think we should just roll with it when the past has shown the board at large may not agree. No one save maybe Bill should get that level of deference anyway.

To be fair, though, if anyone mentions something and anpther person disagrees with it, I keep note of any argument(s) made and try to find an average of everyone's opinions on the matter.

For example, the Anbrose charisma thing... One said 87, another said 89... Guess what? He'll probably get 88, unless other opinions come in within the next couple days. I just found it shocking that currently, we'd be putting Ambrose's charisma over Rhodes, Ziggler and Orton...

Regarding Orton, he might not be the best promo guy in the world, but my guess is, if you stuck him and Ambrose in the ring at the same time, Orton would be getting a good majority of the fan reaction. Looking at the definition of charisma: "A personal magic of leadership arousing special popular loyalty or enthusiasm for a public figure."

So, while crowd reaction is a big proponet of overness, it also ties into charisma...

-Bill

[notatardis]

Orton's a bland mush mouth who has spots where he's pretty good some times.

Whatever with Sami. I find him boring, and his matches boring, but to everyone their own. I don't have a suggestion for his stats, was just continuing the convo.

Do you have a link for some of that feud you mentioned? Considering it seems you run a little high, but being fair to consider that feud, I'd like to volunteer another set of eyes. You may say because of X thing, Y thing should happen, but based on other X things (Taker's brawl, Cena's selling, Quack, Backlund, etc) I don't think we should just roll with it when the past has shown the board at large may not agree. No one save maybe Bill should get that level of deference anyway.

To be fair, though, if anyone mentions something and anpther person disagrees with it, I keep note of any argument(s) made and try to find an average of everyone's opinions on the matter.

For example, the Anbrose charisma thing... One said 87, another said 89... Guess what? He'll probably get 88, unless other opinions come in within the next couple days. I just found it shocking that currently, we'd be putting Ambrose's charisma over Rhodes, Ziggler and Orton...

Regarding Orton, he might not be the best promo guy in the world, but my guess is, if you stuck him and Ambrose in the ring at the same time, Orton would be getting a good majority of the fan reaction. Looking at the definition of charisma: "A personal magic of leadership arousing special popular loyalty or enthusiasm for a public figure."

So, while crowd reaction is a big proponet of overness, it also ties into charisma...

-Bill

I don't disagree with your idea at all. Orton should be over Ambrose, at least currently. The game doesn't account for potential,and Ambrose could get above Orton, he also could not. Charisma is more than just talking, and Orton's RKO does have a special affinity with the crow on top of it, which is where the Cena thing ties in too, as was covered. So I think we're completely in tune in that regard.

[notatardis]

I can't find anything from those matches specifically online (aside from the DVD), I was referencing what I've seen at live shows.

I found this on

that showcases him brawling a small bit, but not a huge lot. I'll look for more tonight though when I get home from work.

gratzi, I'll poke at it soon, and anyone else who wants to chime in can too. The more the merrier.

[Azazel]

In my opinion, death match workers should have their brawl lowered if anything. So they can hit each other with weapons....anyone can do that, they are just willing to take it.

There is a big difference between a Brain Damage and Danny Havoc death match and a Mike Foley and Terry Funk Death Match. It's about the story, not hitting each other with shit.

[Guest Team 720]

I am working on the ladders based on promotion size. I am half-way through the global promotions. I am working on TNA as we speak.

Edit: Callihan is strong at brawling in a hands on way as well as ultra-violence and solid at speed and pretty good at submissions. Also after seeing the video Rich Swann still has not shown anything enough to warrant a 50 from me...

Edited July 18, 2012 by Team 720