EWR 2012 Stats Update: July ***PLEASE USE SPOILER TAGS***

[Bill1996]

I am working on the ladders based on promotion size. I am half-way through the global promotions. I am working on TNA as we speak.

Maybe I'm missing something... From what I've seen, ladders have already been done for brawl, speed, tech and charisma... Starting a new ladder on something else at this time in the month probably wouldn't make a lot of sense.

I said from the get go that I would hold off on adjusting any stats until the 20th. So far, I've done that, although it is pretty tough to sit here and look at 10 pages of notes, a lot of which I can't do anything with, because it's stat related.

But, there has to be a time where I have to start working on this stuff, or nothing will get done. That's why I set the 20th as the cutoff date. It still gives me 10 days to actually work on all of these changes that have been debated and suggested.

Starting a new ladder to discuss now is going to allow for very little time to let you guys discuss/debate changes, before I have to start actually making changes... Otherwise, the stas in August will all look the sam as they did in July.

-Bill

Edited July 18, 2012 by Bill1996

[Guest Team 720]

I am working on the ladders based on promotion size. I am half-way through the global promotions. I am working on TNA as we speak.

Maybe I'm missing something... From what I've seen, ladders have already been done for brawl, speed, tech and charisma... Starting a new ladder on something else at this time in the month probably wouldn't make a lot of sense.

I said from the get go that I would hold off on adjusting any stats until the 20th. So far, I've done that, although it is pretty tough to sit here and look at 10 pages of notes, a lot of which I can't do anything with, because it's stat related.

But, there has to be a time where I have to start working on this stuff, or nothing will get done. That's why I set the 20th as the cutoff date. It still gives me 10 days to actually work on all of these changes that have been debated and suggested.

Starting a new ladder to discuss now is going to allow for very little time to let you guys discuss/debate changes, before I have to start actually making changes... Otherwise, the stas in August will all look the sam as they did in July.

-Bill

I meant the overness issue that was brought up with Dean Ambrose (and less so with NXTers from the indies) over the last few days and you did say that we should go and do that and now you say we shouldn't? I have done work on the WWE, TNA and ROH parts as well as started working on CHIKARA.

[Bill1996]

I am working on the ladders based on promotion size. I am half-way through the global promotions. I am working on TNA as we speak.

Maybe I'm missing something... From what I've seen, ladders have already been done for brawl, speed, tech and charisma... Starting a new ladder on something else at this time in the month probably wouldn't make a lot of sense.

I said from the get go that I would hold off on adjusting any stats until the 20th. So far, I've done that, although it is pretty tough to sit here and look at 10 pages of notes, a lot of which I can't do anything with, because it's stat related.

But, there has to be a time where I have to start working on this stuff, or nothing will get done. That's why I set the 20th as the cutoff date. It still gives me 10 days to actually work on all of these changes that have been debated and suggested.

Starting a new ladder to discuss now is going to allow for very little time to let you guys discuss/debate changes, before I have to start actually making changes... Otherwise, the stas in August will all look the sam as they did in July.

-Bill

I meant the overness issue that was brought up with Dean Ambrose (and less so with NXTers from the indies) over the last few days and you did say that we should go and do that and now you say we shouldn't? I have done work on the WWE, TNA and ROH parts as well as started working on CHIKARA.

You mean this?:

Obviously, the simple solution would be to create an overness ladder, like we did with the brawl, speed, tech and charisma. Once we see where everyone is, chances are, we can better discuss who all needs to be raised, lowered, etc... At this stage, though, I would say to wait until next month to do that, because I need to start updating stats within the next couple days and I highly doubt we could get everything organized and somewhat agreed upon on an entirely new ladder in the next 48 hours.

If you're that far along, though, we can try it, I suppose... I'll just make a mental note to hold off on adjusting any overnesses until the 25th... That gives everyone a week, if you can get the overness ladder out this evening.

Brawl, speed, Tech and Charisma, though, I'm gonna start working on on Friday, quite possibly right at midnight... Like I said, there's a lot to do...

-Bill

Edited July 18, 2012 by Bill1996

[Guest Team 720]

Overness Ladder as it stands right now:

100: Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin, The Rock

99: The Undertaker

98: John Cena, Triple H

97: Brock Lesnar, Shawn Michaels

96: Chris Jericho, CM Punk, Edge, Mr. McMahon, Randy Orton

95:

94: Bret Hart, Jeff Hardy, Kurt Angle

93: Big Show, Daniel Bryan, Mick Foley, Sting

92: Sheamus, Rey Mysterio

91: Alberto Del Rio, Kane, The Miz

90:

89: Booker T, Rob Van Dam

88: Christian, Cody Rhodes, Dolph Ziggler, Jerry Lawler, Kevin Nash, Mark Henry, R-Truth

87: Wade Barrett

86: AJ Styles, John Laurinaitis, Kofi Kingston, Mr. Anderson, Vickie Guerrero

85: Eric Bischoff

84: Bobby Roode, Jeff Jarrett, Samoa Joe, Zack Ryder

83: Bully Ray, Santino Marella

82: James Storm, Paul Heyman

81:

80:

79: Abyss, AJ Lee, Brodus Clay, Devon, Jack Swagger, Matt Morgan, Sin Cara, Stephanie McMahon

78: Dusty Rhodes, Jesse James, The Great Khali

77: Austin Aries, Kelly Kelly, Ricardo Rodriguez, Ted DiBiase, William Regal

76: Beth Phoenix, David Otunga, Douglas Williams, Evan Bourne, Eve Torres, Justin Gabriel, Mickie James, Theodore Long

75:

74: Chris Sabin, Christopher Daniels, D'Angelo Dinero, Davey Richards, Eric Young, Finlay, Kazarian, Kharma, Layla El, Low Ki, Nigel McGuinness, Rhino, Sabu, Shelton Benjamin

73: Charlie Haas, Hernandez, Jim Cornette, Kevin Steen, Natalya Neidhart, Primo

72: Heath Slater, Tara, Tensai

71: Drew McIntyre, Epico, Hunico, Jay Briscoe, Jay Lethal, Mark Briscoe, Roderick Strong

70:

69: Joseph Mercury, Linda McMahon, Taz

68: Al Snow, Brutus Magnus, Dixie Carter, Hornswoggle, Mason Ryan, Matt Striker, Tyson Kidd, Velvet Sky

67: Antonio Cesaro, Karen Jarrett, Mike Quackenbush, ODB, Robbie E, Sean Waltman

66: Aksana, Crimson, Delirious, Eddie Edwards, Eddie Kingston, Ezekiel Jackson, Gunner, Jey Uso, Jimmy Uso, JTG, Lilian Garcia, Madison Rayne, Michael McGillicutty, Rosa Mendes

65:

64: Alicia Fox, Dean Ambrose, El Generico, Gail Kim, Robbie T, Ryback, Sami Callihan, Steve Corino, Winter

63: Adam Cole, Alex Riley, Kenny King, Kid Kash, Rhett Titus

62: Christy Hemme, Jeremy Borash, Tyler Reks, Yoshi Tatsu

61: CIMA, Kaitlyn, Johnny Gargano, Matt Jackson, Mike Bennett, Nick Jackson, Trent Barreta

60:

59: Brooke Hogan, Chuck Taylor, Icarus, Jinder Mahal, Maria Kanellis, Masato Yoshino, Naruki Doi

58: Curt Hawkins, Darren Young, Drake Younger, Fire Ant, Masada, Titus O'Neil

57: Bray Wyatt, Gran Akuma, Hector Guerrero, SHINGO, Ultra Mantis Black, Vin Gerard

56: Danny Havoc, Jigsaw, Jimmy Jacobs, Soldier Ant

55:

54: BxB Hulk, Camacho, Damien Sandow, Dragon Kid, Garett Bischoff, Greg Excellent, Miss Tessmacher, Ophidian, Percy Watson, Ricochet, Sarah Stock, Seth Rollins, So Cal Val, Tim Donst, Zema Ion

53: AR Fox, BJ Whitmer, Johnny Curtis, Kassius Ohno, Kyle O'Reilly, Michael Elgin

52: Akira Tozawa, Derrick Bateman, DJ Hyde, Hallowicked, Pinkie Sanchez, Rich Swann, Richie Steamboat

51: Blk Jeez, Naomi Night, PAC, Ruckus, Xavier Woods, YAMATO

50:

49: Brodie Lee/Luke Harper, Frightmare, Jesse Sorensen, Joker, Masaaki Mochizuki, Mike Mondo

48: Abraham Washington, Bo Dallas, Cameron Lynn, Devon Moore, Green Ant, Guardian of Truth 1, Guardian of Truth 2, Matt Tremont

47: Arik Cannon, Mia Yim, Samuray Del Sol, Scott Parker, Shane Matthews

46: Byron Saxton, Conor O'Brian, Player Dos, Player Uno, Scotty Vortekz, Rosita, Truth Martini, Uhaa Nation

45: Prince Nana

44: Alex Colon, Dave Crist, Genki Horiguchi, Grizzly Redwood, Jake Crist, Joe Gacy, Ryo Jimmy Saito, Sakamoto, Susumu Yokosuka, tHURTeen, Tommaso Ciampa

43: Corey Graves, Obariyon, Ricky Reyes, Ryan Slater, TJ Perkins

42: Caylee Turner, Jon Davis, Kodama, Sofia Cortez, Dasher Hatfield, Niles YOung

41: Archibald Peck, Chrissy Rivera, Gamma, Larry Legend, Maven Bentley

40:

39: Bobby Fish, Brad Maddox, Gregory Iron, Jake Carter, Kenneth Cameron, Leo Kruger, Paige, Shane Hagadorn

38: Andy Ridge, Azrieal, Bandido Jr., Harlem Bravado, Jake Manning, Lancelot Bravado, Muhammed Lawal

37: Bob Evans, Brad Allen, Christopher Silvio, Mike Dalton

36: 17, assailANT, Audrey Marie, combatANT, deviANT, Dewey Donovan, Dragonfly, Dustin Rayz, Jakob Hammermeier, Latin Dragon, Leakee, Reby Sky, Robby Minero, Tenille

35:

34: Big E Langston, Caleb Konley, Caprice Coleman, Kobald, Leonard F, Chikarason, Nui Tofiga, Shane Strickland, The Shard, Veronica

33: Briley Pierce, Cedric Alexander, Christina Von Eerie, Rory Mondo

32: Alexander James, Kimber Lee

31: Larry Dallas

30: El Hijo Del Ice Cream, Ice Cream Jr.

29: Ahtu, Marcus Anthony/Lincoln Brodrick, Mark Angelosetti, Matt Taven, Scott Reed

28: CJ Parker, Flip Kendrick, Louis Lyndon, Mr. Ernesto Osiris, Rick Victor

27: Alexander Rusev, Dante Dash

26: Alex Silva, DT Porter, Garrett Dylan, James Bronso, Kyle Matthews, Raquel Diaz

25: Stalker Ichikawa

24: Ron Mathis, Saturyne, Veda Scott

23: Mike Cruz

22:

21: Aiden English

20:

19: AJ Evers, Buggy, Colin Cassady, Jack Bonza, QT Marshall

18: Alex Reynolds, Austin Draven, Erick Rowan, Jason Jordan, John Silver

17:

16: Val Kabious

15:

14: Nick Rogers, Summer Rae

13: Martin Stone

12:

11: Derek Foore/Chad Baxter

10:

9: Adam Mercer

8:

7:

6:

5:

4:

3:

2:

1:

Note:

Main Eventer: 66-100 for Cult, 81-100 for National, & 91-100 for Global

Upper Midcarder: 51-65 for Cult, 71-80 for National, & 81-90 for Global

Midcarder: 41-50 for Cult, 56-70 for National, & 61-80 for Global

Lower Midcarder: 21-40 for Cult, 41-55 for National, & 41-60 for Global

Opener: 11-20 for Cult & 21-40 for National & Global

Jobber: 0-10 for Cult, & 0-20 for National & Global

Edited July 18, 2012 by Team 720

[Bill1996]

So, this includes WWE, TNA, ROH, DG-EVO and CHI, correct?

Just wanting to know what it all entials, so I can edit my pages of notes to consolidate onto a separate page (as I have done with the other ladders) to include any previous discussion in this month's thread regarding overness. That should make the updating easier on my end.

-Bill

Edited July 18, 2012 by Bill1996

[conker8]

After seeing Money In The Bank:

Rename Abraham Washington to AW. Raise AW's overness to 70 and his charimsa to 82, the guy is funny and actually enjoyable on the mic now that he doesn't try so hard to be a funny talk show host. He is the modern day Jimmy Hart.

Lower Epico's overness to 65.

Raise Darren Young's overness to 68.

Lower Primo's overness to 67.

Raise Titus O'Neil's overness to 67.

I feel this way for the overness raise/lowers because both teams were not over on the show BUT the Prime Time Players got a way bigger response than Epico and Primo did. They barely got a pop for entering the arena or the win.

Raise Rosa Mendes' charisma to 68 because while she isn't strong on the mic, she does have a physical charisma that is barely matched in WWE.

Raise Dolph Ziggler's overness to 92, I feel he is little higher than being on-par with Miz.

Lower Alberto Del Rio's overness to 90 as I feel is not on the same level as Dolph and Miz right now.

Lower Beth Phoenix's overness to 74.

Lower Eve's overness to 72.

Lower Natayla's overness to 70.

Similar to the tag match, the women were not getting pops at all tonight. I feel that Layla, Tamina and Kaitlyn are at good overness ratings for them at the moment but not the heels they faced.

-Raise Abyss' overness to 83.

-Raise Austin Aries' overness to 82. Raise his wages to 40,000. Make him an upper mid carder.

-Raise Miss Tessmacher's brawl to 54, stiffness to 41, selling to 64, and overness to 60.

Raise Gail Kim's stiffness to 42.

Add these values of your ladder, Team720.

Also, there is a reason for not have wrestlers at 95, 90, 85, 80...?

[Guest Team 720]

So, this includes WWE, TNA, ROH, DG-EVO and CHI, correct?

Just wanting to know what it all entials, so I can edit my pages of notes to consolidate onto a separate page (as I have done with the other ladders) to include any previous discussion in this month's thread regarding overness. That should make the updating easier on my end.

-Bill

Why yes, yes it does.

My take on the Overness Ladder:

100: Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin, The Rock, The Undertaker

99: Triple H

98: John Cena, Shawn Michaels

97: Brock Lesnar, Edge, Randy Orton

96: Chris Jericho, CM Punk, Jeff Hardy, Mr. McMahon

95: Kurt Angle

94: Bret Hart, Sting

93: Big Show, Daniel Bryan, Mick Foley, Sheamus

92: Rey Mysterio

91: Dolph Ziggler, Kane, The Miz

90: Alberto Del Rio

89: Booker T, Rob Van Dam

88: Christian, Cody Rhodes, Jerry Lawler, Kevin Nash, Mark Henry, Vickie Guerrero

87: AJ Styles, R-Truth, Wade Barrett

86: Jeff Jarrett, John Laurinaitis, Mr. Anderson

85: Bobby Roode, Eric Bischoff, Santino Marella

84: Kofi Kingston, Samoa Joe, Zack Ryder

83: Bully Ray

82: Austin Aries, James Storm, Paul Heyman

81: Abyss, AJ Lee

80: Dusty Rhodes

79: Brodus Clay, Devon, Jack Swagger, Matt Morgan, Sin Cara, Stephanie McMahon

78: Jesse James, The Great Khali

77: Kelly Kelly, Ricardo Rodriguez

76: Christopher Daniels, David Otunga, Evan Bourne, Mickie James, Theodore Long

75: Jim Cornette, William Regal

74: Beth Phoenix, Chris Sabin, D'Angelo Dinero, Davey Richards, Douglas Williams, Eric Young, Justin Gabriel, Kazarian, Kharma, Layla El, Nigel McGuinness, Sabu, Ted DiBiase

73: Hernandez, Kevin Steen,

72: Abraham Washington, Eve Torres,Heath Slater, Hornswoggle, Jay Lethal, Sean Waltman, Tara, Tensai

71: Drew McIntyre, Finlay, Hunico, Jay Briscoe, Mark Briscoe, Roderick Strong, Ryback

70: Natalya Neidhart, Shelton Benjamin

69: Brutus Magnus, Charlie Haas, Darren Young, Joseph Mercury, Linda McMahon, Taz, Titus O'Neil

68: Dixie Carter, Mason Ryan, Matt Striker, Tyson Kidd, Velvet Sky

67: Gail Kim, Karen Jarrett, Low Ki, ODB, Rhino, Robbie E, Rosa Mendes, Zema Ion

66: Aksana, Crimson, Damien Sandow, Delirious, Eddie Edwards, Eddie Kingston, Ezekiel Jackson, Gunner, Jey Uso, Jimmy Uso, Lilian Garcia, Madison Rayne, Michael McGillicutty

65: Epico, Primo

64: Al Snow, Alicia Fox, El Generico, Robbie T, Steve Corino, Winter

63: Adam Cole, Alex Riley, Kenny King, Kid Kash

62: Christy Hemme, Miss Tessmacher, JTG, Yoshi Tatsu

61: Brooke Hogan, CIMA, Kaitlyn, Matt Jackson, Mike Bennett, Nick Jackson Rhett Titus

60: Mike Quackenbush

59: Chuck Taylor, Icarus, Jinder Mahal, Johnny Gargano, Maria Kanellis, Masato Yoshino, Naruki Doi, PAC, Sami Callihan

58: Curt Hawkins, Drake Younger, Fire Ant, Jeremy Borash, Masada, Tyler Reks

57: Bray Wyatt, Hector Guerrero, Jimmy Jacobs, Ultra Mantis Black, Vin Gerard, YAMATO

56: Antonio Cesaro, Camacho, Soldier Ant, Trent Barreta

55: Akira Tozawa

54: BxB Hulk, Danny Havoc, Dragon Kid, Garett Bischoff, Greg Excellent, Ophidian, Percy Watson, Ricochet, Sarah Stock, Seth Rollins, So Cal Val

53: AR Fox, BJ Whitmer, Jigsaw, Kassius Ohno, Kyle O'Reilly, Michael Elgin, SHINGO, Truth Martini

52: Derrick Bateman, Hallowicked, Rich Swann, Richie Steamboat

51: Blk Jeez, Dean Ambrose, Naomi Night, Prince Nana, Ruckus, Xavier Woods

50: DJ Hyde, Gran Akuma, Tim Donst

49: Brodie Lee/Luke Harper, Frightmare, Jesse Sorensen, Joker, Masaaki Mochizuki, Mike Mondo,

48: Bo Dallas, Cameron Lynn, Devon Moore, Green Ant, Guardian of Truth 1, Guardian of Truth 2, Matt Tremont

47: Mia Yim, Samuray Del Sol

46: Arik Cannon, Byron Saxton, Conor O'Brian, Player Dos, Player Uno, Scotty Vortekz , Rosita, Uhaa Nation

45: Leo Kruger, Pinkie Sanchez, Scott Parker, Shane Matthews

44: Alex Colon, Dave Crist, Genki Horiguchi, Jake Crist, Joe Gacy, Ryo Jimmy Saito, Sakamoto, Susumu Yokosuka, Tommaso Ciampa

43: Corey Graves, Kenneth Cameron, Obariyon, Ricky Reyes, TJ Perkins

42: Jon Davis, Kodama, Sofia Cortez, Dasher Hatfield, Niles Young

41: Archibald Peck, Caylee Turner, Gamma, Larry Legend, Maven Bentley, tHURTeen

40: Chrissy Rivera, Grizzly Redwood, Ryan Slater

39: Bobby Fish, Brad Maddox, Gregory Iron, Jake Carter, Mark Angelosetti, Paige, Shane Hagadorn

38: Azrieal, Bandido Jr., Flip Kendrick, Harlem Bravado, Jake Manning, Lancelot Bravado, Muhammed Lawal

37: Bob Evans, Brad Allen, Christopher Silvio, Kobald, Mike Dalton

36: 17, assailANT, Audrey Marie, combatANT, deviANT, Dewey Donovan, Dustin Rayz, Jakob Hammermeier, Larry Dallas, Leakee, Reby Sky, Robby Minero, Tenille

35: Veronica

34: Big E Langston, Caleb Konley, Caprice Coleman, Dragonfly, Leonard F, Chikarason, Nui Tofiga, Shane Strickland, The Shard

33: Briley Pierce, Cedric Alexander, Christina Von Eerie, Latin Dragon, Scott Reed

32: Alexander James, Kimber Lee

31: Andy Ridge, Rory Mondo, Rick Victor

30: El Hijo Del Ice Cream, Ice Cream Jr.

29: Ahtu, Marcus Anthony/Lincoln Brodrick, Matt Taven

28: CJ Parker, Jason Jordan, Louis Lyndon, Mr. Ernesto Osiris

27: Aiden English, Alexander Rusev, Dante Dash

26: Alex Silva, DT Porter, Garrett Dylan, James Bronso, Kyle Matthews, Raquel Diaz

25: Stalker Ichikawa

24: Ron Mathis, Saturyne, Veda Scott

23: Mike Cruz, Nick Rogers

22:

21:

20:

19: Adam Mercer, AJ Evers, Buggy, Colin Cassady, Jack Bonza, QT Marshall

18: Alex Reynolds, Austin Draven, Erick Rowan, John Silver

17: Summer Rae

16: Val Kabious

15:

14: Martin Stone

13: Derek Foore/Chad Baxter

12:

11:

10:

9:

8:

7:

6:

5:

4:

3:

2:

1:

Edit: Thanks Konkers, I edited those (on my own personal opinion) if they were lower. If there were no one at that level, there was no one there. At the lower parts of the ladder there were blanks as well.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Team 720

[Bill1996]

After seeing Money In The Bank:

Rename Abraham Washington to AW. Raise AW's overness to 70 and his charimsa to 82, the guy is funny and actually enjoyable on the mic now that he doesn't try so hard to be a funny talk show host. He is the modern day Jimmy Hart.

Lower Epico's overness to 65.

Raise Darren Young's overness to 68.

Lower Primo's overness to 67.

Raise Titus O'Neil's overness to 67.

I feel this way for the overness raise/lowers because both teams were not over on the show BUT the Prime Time Players got a way bigger response than Epico and Primo did. They barely got a pop for entering the arena or the win.

Raise Rosa Mendes' charisma to 68 because while she isn't strong on the mic, she does have a physical charisma that is barely matched in WWE.

Raise Dolph Ziggler's overness to 92, I feel he is little higher than being on-par with Miz.

Lower Alberto Del Rio's overness to 90 as I feel is not on the same level as Dolph and Miz right now.

Lower Beth Phoenix's overness to 74.

Lower Eve's overness to 72.

Lower Natayla's overness to 70.

Similar to the tag match, the women were not getting pops at all tonight. I feel that Layla, Tamina and Kaitlyn are at good overness ratings for them at the moment but not the heels they faced.

-Raise Abyss' overness to 83.

-Raise Austin Aries' overness to 82. Raise his wages to 40,000. Make him an upper mid carder.

-Raise Miss Tessmacher's brawl to 54, stiffness to 41, selling to 64, and overness to 60.

Raise Gail Kim's stiffness to 42.

Add these values of your ladder, Team720.

Also, there is a reason for not have wrestlers at 95, 90, 85, 80...?

No, he shouldn't add anything...

The "ladder" is what is in the game currently... The post you quoted were his opinions. The ladder is so people can see where everyone is currently and better determine who should go up, down, or stay the same.

That should help answer your second question... No workers currently have an overness of 95,90,85 or 80... That's why none appear in those spots on the ladder.

I have both of the above posts, along with everyone else's suggestion so far, so there's no need to add or repost anything... I'll do that on my end.

-Bill

Edited July 18, 2012 by Bill1996

[Bill1996]

So, this includes WWE, TNA, ROH, DG-EVO and CHI, correct?

Just wanting to know what it all entials, so I can edit my pages of notes to consolidate onto a separate page (as I have done with the other ladders) to include any previous discussion in this month's thread regarding overness. That should make the updating easier on my end.

-Bill

Why yes, yes it does.

OK... Why is Chrissy Rivera on there? My guess is, CZW is included in this as well...?

What I'm looking for is a complete list of what all promotions' overnesses this entaials... I got WWE, TNA, ROH, DG-EVO, CHI and CZW (I'm guessing). The other 2 "cult" promotions are PWG and PWS... are they included as well or no...?

I'm assuming anything below cult level is not included, as well...

-Bill

[Guest Team 720]

So, this includes WWE, TNA, ROH, DG-EVO and CHI, correct?

Just wanting to know what it all entials, so I can edit my pages of notes to consolidate onto a separate page (as I have done with the other ladders) to include any previous discussion in this month's thread regarding overness. That should make the updating easier on my end.

-Bill

Why yes, yes it does.

OK... Why is Chrissy Rivera on there? My guess is, CZW is included in this as well...?

What I'm looking for is a complete list of what all promotions' overnesses this entaials... I got WWE, TNA, ROH, DG-EVO, CHI and CZW (I'm guessing). The other 2 "cult" promotions are PWG and PWS... are they included as well or no...?

I'm assuming anything below cult level is not included, as well...

-Bill

My own personal opinnion is PWS should NOT be a cult promotion but if I need to add them in I will.

[Bill1996]

Want to make a comment, while I have it in mind...

I know peole don't like double posting and all that, but keep in mind that I update my notes pretty frequently on here. What that means is, if I see a post and copy it to my notes and then you go back and edit the post, I won't have the edits in my notes. While in most cases, posting "EDIT" in the posts helps, I might not always catch it, or we could be posting at the same time and, as a result, I miss the edit.

Just something to keep in mind...

-Bill

[conker8]

Thank you Bill but I know the concept, I'm the guy coming with the idea of the ladders.

When I write my post, I was thinking it was his ladder, not the current ladder.

End of off-topic.

Your own ladder is really good, Team720. Agree with your suggestions.

[Bill1996]

So, this includes WWE, TNA, ROH, DG-EVO and CHI, correct?

Just wanting to know what it all entials, so I can edit my pages of notes to consolidate onto a separate page (as I have done with the other ladders) to include any previous discussion in this month's thread regarding overness. That should make the updating easier on my end.

-Bill

Why yes, yes it does.

OK... Why is Chrissy Rivera on there? My guess is, CZW is included in this as well...?

What I'm looking for is a complete list of what all promotions' overnesses this entaials... I got WWE, TNA, ROH, DG-EVO, CHI and CZW (I'm guessing). The other 2 "cult" promotions are PWG and PWS... are they included as well or no...?

I'm assuming anything below cult level is not included, as well...

-Bill

My own personal opinnion is PWS should NOT be a cult promotion but if I need to add them in I will.

No, no need to add anything... I just need to know which promotions are included on the list is all.

-Bill

[Y2JFan111]

Add the stable LivE to ROH with Kevin Steen, Steve Corino and Jimmy Jacobs as the members

Rename Corino and Jacobs to LivE.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Y2JFan111

[TSweets]

I don't often mention my views on the over of guys in the big promotions but here is my view on just a few aspects.

98 Steve Austin hasn't been a regular since 2005, granted he makes sporadic appearances, but as a new generation of fans are generated new fans don't care for guys like this as much. You'll see more of these guys in this post, same idea applies to them. When a worker starts making regular appearances for WWE again their over should go back up, but one-off appearances here and there does not generate enough buzz for new viewers to become fans.

98 Hulk Hogan - same as above

90 Kurt Angle - again hasn't appeared in The Big promotion for what 5-6 years, Red is suggesting an increase (granted it tiny) but I would think it should go the opposite way. I remember watching or reading (not sure which) an interview in which Angle said he's often approached by people asking why he doesn't wrestle anymore? There are becoming more and more fans who don't have a clue who he is because people don't know TNA exists.

90 Sting - Again hasn't wrestled in a world promotion since WCW (I’m not considering TNA to be a world promotion since we have them as global based on the game’s glitch)

Actually I think it would be easier to drop any TNA wrestler with an over above 90 down by 5 points at least. Seriously, these guys are nowhere near as known as the top WWE guys.

The TNA guys overness keeps getting upped and it accentuates the problem that was discussed on the previous pages of this form. Keep them where they are or better yet lower them so that the FCW guys are able to be set lower so the workers are able to stay in the Dev Territory longer.

The Main Eventers for a Global are 91-100 with a 9 buffer. Since TNA is barely a Global Promotion (in the game) the best scenario is to have all of TNA’s Main Event workers between 82 and 90 where there will be no complaints from workers or suggestions from staff to move the workers.

I will make a slightly different case for Jeff Hardy – Had a more recent return to the WWE for a decent good length of time. I’d like to see him at about 92. But within a couple years down to 90.

The Undertaker is fine at 99 I think the only wrestler that should be at 100 currently is The Rock.

Side note: This may make it look like I’m a TNA hater, but I’m not and I do like the product more than WWE. I just think it’s realistic that many wrestling fans still don’t know that the promotion exists. (Okay “many” wrestling fans may be an exaggeration, but there are enough of them, and many that do know it exists yet don’t follow TNA or their wrestlers)

Edited July 19, 2012 by TSweets

[TheWho87]

If Angle, Austin or Hogan was to walk into WWE right now what do you think their reaction would be, personally I feel guys like Austin, Rock and Hogan should be 100 simply because you could show their picture to anyone and 9/10 times they would be known even to non-wrestling fans, they are figureheads of the industry, I feel Cena could also be considered as well but since he is still active he could still fluctuate but when he would retire I’d give him 100 as well.

In a similar aspect if Sting was to show up in WWE the crowd reaction would be massive. I think the whole “if they are in TNA they should be lower” argument while valid for some of the TNA grown stars would be negative to those who made their names elsewhere especially in WWE.

[Guest Team 720]

I don't often mention my views on the over of guys in the big promotions but here is my view on just a few aspects.

98 Steve Austin hasn't been a regular since 2005, granted he makes sporadic appearances, but as a new generation of fans are generated new fans don't care for guys like this as much. You'll see more of these guys in this post, same idea applies to them. When a worker starts making regular appearances for WWE again their over should go back up, but one-off appearances here and there does not generate enough buzz for new viewers to become fans.

98 Hulk Hogan - same as above

90 Kurt Angle - again hasn't appeared in The Big promotion for what 5-6 years, Red is suggesting an increase (granted it tiny) but I would think it should go the opposite way. I remember watching or reading (not sure which) an interview in which Angle said he's often approached by people asking why he doesn't wrestle anymore? There are becoming more and more fans who don't have a clue who he is because people don't know TNA exists.

90 Sting - Again hasn't wrestled in a world promotion since WCW (I’m not considering TNA to be a world promotion since we have them as global based on the game’s glitch)

Actually I think it would be easier to drop any TNA wrestler with an over above 90 down by 5 points at least. Seriously, these guys are nowhere near as known as the top WWE guys.

The TNA guys overness keeps getting upped and it accentuates the problem that was discussed on the previous pages of this form. Keep them where they are or better yet lower them so that the FCW guys are able to be set lower so the workers are able to stay in the Dev Territory longer.

The Main Eventers for a Global are 91-100 with a 9 buffer. Since TNA is barely a Global Promotion (in the game) the best scenario is to have all of TNA’s Main Event workers between 82 and 90 where there will be no complaints from workers or suggestions from staff to move the workers.

I will make a slightly different case for Jeff Hardy – Had a more recent return to the WWE for a decent good length of time. I’d like to see him at about 92. But within a couple years down to 90.

The Undertaker is fine at 99 I think the only wrestler that should be at 100 currently is The Rock.

Side note: This may make it look like I’m a TNA hater, but I’m not and I do like the product more than WWE. I just think it’s realistic that many wrestling fans still don’t know that the promotion exists. (Okay “many” wrestling fans may be an exaggeration, but there are enough of them, and many that do know it exists yet don’t follow TNA or their wrestlers)

The problem is the are a global promotion due to the fact that they were a high national promotion and would easily become a global promotion ready to goto war with the WWE. The problem is TNA guys while being in the same role kind of needs to be in that overness to be legit in their roles and already are. Take Bobby Roode for example, he is a CLEAR main eventer in TNA, yet he is in the 80's when you SHOULD be in the 90's to be a main eventer in a global promotion like WWE or TNA. I feel that Jeff and Kurt would STILL get big pops from a majority of the WWE fans should they return to WWE at this point.

[KrisClassic]

I agree with the majority of 720's list except the following:

Finlay - Big deal on the indies, I'd say nearly on-par with Davey Richards. 73.

Low Ki - He's on-par with Davey Richards or Homicide. 74.

Shelton Benjamin - A big deal in ROH. 72.

Charlie Haas - See above. 70.

Rhino - Still well known. 73.

El Generico - One of the biggest sensations on the indies today. 73.

Mike Quackenbush - He's at 67 currently so he can be a main eventer is Chikara, which reflects his real-life overness (in Chikara) and card position. Since he is unsackable there, I so no reason why he should be lowered. 67.

Sami Callihan - One of the biggest stars on the indy scene today. 64 is more than fair.

Jeremy Borash - 63.

Johnny Gargano - See Sami Callihan. 61.

DJ Hyde - One of CZW's top heels, 52, where he currently at, is an understatement if anything.

In my opinion, death match workers should have their brawl lowered if anything. So they can hit each other with weapons....anyone can do that, they are just willing to take it.

There is a big difference between a Brain Damage and Danny Havoc death match and a Mike Foley and Terry Funk Death Match. It's about the story, not hitting each other with shit.

Not to be rude, but this sounds like it is coming from someone who doesn't properly understand or appreciate death match wrestling (and understandably so, given its reputation). Sure, sometimes it is about hitting guys over and over again with weapons with no rhyme or reason. The guys who do that have lower stats. A good death match wrestler puts psychology into his matches to make a compelling story. Brain Damage is a great death match wrestler, as is Danny Havoc (if you think he isn't about story, watch his recent barbed wire match vs. Drew Gulak, it was incredible). Other examples of guys who are GOOD death match wrestlers include Sami Callihan, Drake Younger, Masada, DJ Hyde, and Matt Tremont (he gets better with every match).

Edit: Callihan is strong at brawling in a hands on way as well as ultra-violence and solid at speed and pretty good at submissions. Also after seeing the video Rich Swann still has not shown anything enough to warrant a 50 from me...

Like I said, that match didn't showcase his ability a whole lot. Unfortunately his matches with Sami from NWA-F1 aren't online, just the DVD to purchase it, but he really showcases his brawling skills there in wild arena-wide brawls. At the very least he should have late 60s to early 70s. No lower than 68 IMO.

[TSweets]

If Angle, Austin or Hogan was to walk into WWE right now what do you think their reaction would be, personally I feel guys like Austin, Rock and Hogan should be 100 simply because you could show their picture to anyone and 9/10 times they would be known even to non-wrestling fans, they are figureheads of the industry, I feel Cena could also be considered as well but since he is still active he could still fluctuate but when he would retire I’d give him 100 as well.

In a similar aspect if Sting was to show up in WWE the crowd reaction would be massive. I think the whole “if they are in TNA they should be lower” argument while valid for some of the TNA grown stars would be negative to those who made their names elsewhere especially in WWE.

Didn't you kind of answer your question? (That may have sounded rude, and I apologize if it did.) You said 9/10 times thus 90% hence over should be in the 90s (it is an over simplified analogy). You show a picture of the Rock to someone I'd say 10/10 times the person would know who he is. That is why I see The Rock as the only one at 100. As for Angle, Austin, and Hogan I could take a picture to work tomorrow of each of them and Hogan might be recognized by a few and to a lesser extent sting might get a nod but I don't foresee anyone picking out Angle. (granted I work predominantly with women, so it isn't really the right demographic, and I doubt they are wrestling fans, but that is what you said in you're post). All things considered both Sting and Hogan have a unique look which help in the recognition, Angle is a bald white guy.

I do like the concept, and it would be fun to try wouldn't it?

One point is we are getting crowds in the WWE with quite a few kids ages probably 6 or 7 and up. Anyone who is under 12 would have stated watching after guys like Austin retired I don't think they are going to know who he is (that is assuming all these kids start watching WWE on TV at 4yrs old). I'm not saying he isn't relevant any more and I'm not saying he wouldn't main event if he came back and wrestled. I'm just saying he is not recognizable by 100% of the fan base. I'm saying a drop of 2 points, which is pretty much nothing in the grand scheme of things. Seriously 2 points; that's still 98% of fans would recognize him.

This point applying to Sting also: WCW was bought out in 2001 I believe, Anyone starting to watch WCW in say 2000 at age 4 wouldn't recognize sting, thus anyone who is under say 16 would most likely not recognize Sting; a 12 year span. (which becomes a much more prominent demographic of wrestling fans).

I think I'm being pretty liberal with the 4 yrs old thing, too. I didn't watch wrestling till I was about 7 or 8 and couldn't recall more than a couple names.

To reply to Team 720:"...yet he is in the 80's when you SHOULD be in the 90's to be a main eventer in a global promotion like WWE or TNA"

1. I see your point, however TNA is barley a global promotion at a PI of 10. If their PI was at 50 I would agree.

2. You said should be in the 90's, bit since we have the buffer(which is for the instances in which a promotion is on the brink between to levels, i.e TNA) I would say it NEEDS to be above 82. and if the promotion had a better PI then they SHOULD be in the 90s.

Edited July 19, 2012 by TSweets

[Mancuerda]

TSweets, it doesn't really make a difference if your female coworkers don't recognize Kurt Angle. Wrestling fans do.

A lot more women know Brad Pitt than The Rock, so I guess we should lower The Rock's over to around 60 to accommodate.

TNA should be National around 65-70% anyway, but I doubt that argument will go very far.